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So are the Alphic Lions a sleeper regiment as well?
Or the Beltic Hydras?

It is a fun theory but you can't really prove it in any way, it seems like a large stretch. It would be fun if true but I doubt it.

It'd make sense for them both to be..

Maybe the Alphic Hydras just have a strange name and the guy who wrote their fluff really likes the Ultramarines. After all, it seems like they were always named that. I would buy the conspiracy theory if they had a name change.

On the other hand, it's a little weird how the same Storm Trooper regiment fights alongside the same space marine chapter repeatedly to the point where they are buddy buddy.

Hollismason wrote:
It'd make sense for them both to be..

It really wouldn't. See my previous argument about how ridiculous it would be if they had resources to form multiple complete regiments of minions.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, that's why I don't think it's an AL plot;
Because it's so unbelievably stupid if it were, and it involves a lot of speculation, conditions and "what if" scenarios.

You'd have to be Tzeentch to pull something like this off.
Wait...maybe it was the demon parrot all along...

Need I remind you that Bale and Carron were Alpha Legionnaires? Simply being in the Alpha Legion does not make one smart.

They also ended up dead.

Anyway, there are not enough hints in their background to support the AL theory other than their name. If it mentioned something like disappearing Ultramarines or curious inconsistencies with their paper work, then I might be more receptive to this theory.

They don't have to form complete regiments just a few well placed sleeper agents.

Where can they place a sleeper agent in a fighting unit in such a way that it is guaranteed that he won't die?

 Wyzilla wrote:
Need I remind you that Bale and Carron were Alpha Legionnaires? Simply being in the Alpha Legion does not make one smart.

Well, to be fair, they came from DoW. And DoW has taken liberties with the fluff before.

Besides, who's to say that Bale and Carron weren't mere puppets for the real Alpha Legion?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Where can they place a sleeper agent in a fighting unit in such a way that it is guaranteed that he won't die?

Behind everyone else?

This seems kind of dumb. If true it would seem ridiculously obvious. I'd find it more interesting if a name with a somewhat heretical sound actually turns out to be the most loyal of all. Of course inquisitors will probably ruin the party by anal probing each and every member of this regiment and possibly finding some Loh sticks and a map of the scion's base. Of course in-conclusive evidence is probably enough for them to sentence them as traitors and kill them anyway.

So yeah maybe it would be more interesting if inquisitors declared them rogues and forced them into exile and possibly turning traitor to survive. Inquisitors can really suck sometimes.

 Lynata wrote:
So are the Alphic Lions a sleeper regiment as well?
Or the Beltic Hydras?

Probably not but everybody instantly hates anything attributed to them. Kind of like how the names 'adolf' and 'hitler' have been completely ruined for all future generations, as well as the Nazi symbol which used to be a good luck sign and hitler's moustache. I could be wrong but I think once Arnold while running for governor commented on liking something hitler liked like his shoes. Apparently even hitler's shoes were evil. I can't remember what it was but it was something extremely ridiculous.

Shame this is now obviously not right...
Would have been entertaining to have it as a little easter egg...

 purplefood wrote:
Shame this is now obviously not right...
Would have been entertaining to have it as a little easter egg...

My issue is it's almost as bad as somebody writing their name backwards or forming a name out of their name. It just feels really cheesy like some death guard guardsmen being called the 666th cadian 'Death' guard-smen. In fact maybe all death-worlders are also sub-ordinates of the death guard since they all have 'death' in the name.

I'm not saying this isn't true. I just think it would be incredibly lame like when it was stated and later pretty much proven in 'heart of the swarm' than Narud from starcraft 2: wings of liberty is probably Duran because the name is the same spelled backwards. It's also like the whole 'alucard' being 'dracula' spelled backwards. I just don't want Dr. Live to really be Dr. Evil over here although normally it's infinitely less clever and more obvious.

 Lynata wrote:

BrotherOfBone wrote:And, we know how little things are checked in the Schola, it only takes one person to punch in some keys to start recruiting from such and such world, and then call them the Alphic Hydras.

Unless they've invalidate that piece of Codex fluff, the Scholae Progenium are quite thorough in their checks. The name of a military formation also gets decided at a higher level than the unit itself. And it would not recruit from a single Schola but multple.

That's some conspiracy theory!

BrotherOfBone wrote:The long term goal is to infiltrate the Ultramarines, something they couldn't really control otherwise.

So they've been doing this for ... how many millennia now? And to what effect? Other than, y'know, helping the Ultras win their wars.

They really are evil because they're helping out the ultramarines and therefore mat ward's ego. This will increase hatred of ultramarines and eventually lead to an exodus of 40k and warhammer in general. The universe is in a state of permanent chaos and stops completely when GW goes bankrupt. Just as planned!

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Shame this is now obviously not right...
Would have been entertaining to have it as a little easter egg...

My issue is it's almost as bad as somebody writing their name backwards or forming a name out of their name. It just feels really cheesy like some death guard guardsmen being called the 666th cadian 'Death' guard-smen. In fact maybe all death-worlders are also sub-ordinates of the death guard since they all have 'death' in the name.

I'm not saying this isn't true. I just think it would be incredibly lame like when it was stated and later pretty much proven in 'heart of the swarm' than Narud from starcraft 2: wings of liberty is probably Duran because the name is the same spells backwards. It's also like the whole 'alucard' being 'dracula' spelled backwards. I just don't want Dr. Live to really be Dr. Evil over here although normally it's infinitely less clever and more obvious.

40k is a universe where there is a forgeworld named Metallica and there is an Ork warlord named after the only female (and also highly controversial) female uk politician.
There isn't much in 40k that is clever and even less that is subtle.

No real counter statements here purple. I'm not saying it wouldn't fit 40k and you're probably right. I just think it'd be one more really stupid thing to have.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
No real counter statements here purple. I'm not saying it wouldn't fit 40k and you're probably right. I just think it'd be one more really stupid thing to have.

Frankly it'd be better than perpetuals...
Least it'd kinda make sense.

 purplefood wrote:
Frankly it'd be better than perpetuals...

Those are not real. Just an Alpha Legion ruse, for some unknown and nefarious purpose.

 Trickstick wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
Frankly it'd be better than perpetuals...

Those are not real. Just an Alpha Legion ruse, for some unknown and nefarious purpose.

All is right with the world now.

I'm paying less and less attention to 40k. I'm more into fantasy. Not super subtle but more so and less obsessed with grim-dark. At least fantasy can be humorous even if it can be childish humor sometimes (ogres).

I dunno I like the imperial guard. Maybe what turned me off of 40k is hearing the epic ballad of Dr. Kill-face vs Pube-onicus the pestilent's great fight where infinity trillion people died and everything was composed of a bajillion skulls.

Sorry for going a bit off topic.

The new stormtrooper army is kind of cool. I used to love the imperial guard and a stormtrooper army sounds kind of nice. I would've preferred more heavy weapons types myself and possibly a huge titanic flying ship that spews out ordnance. It'd be like the movie 'titanic' except less romance and singing and instead more explosions everywhere. In short it'd be glorious. I'd cry at the end of that rather than titanic every time.

A Scion regiment doesn't decide it's own name as far as I know. Therefore, not only would the Alpha Legion have to infiltrate some orphans into the Scions and hope those orphans don't "go native" somehow, they'd also have to infiltrrate the one who NAMED the regiment of those infiltrators in order to have pulled this off.

As pointed out, the ones who NAME the regiments are much higher level than the ones int he regiment itself, so this would be quite a lot of effort. And when all that is said and done, WHY?

Yes, okay, WHY they'd infiltrate the Scions and get them buddy buddy with the Ultramarines is obvious. But WHY would they also infiltrate the guys who NAMED their Scion regiment and then name it "55th Alphic Hydras"? Isn't that just a bit... STUPID? It's like Russia spending a ton of resources and manpower infiltrating America's government just so it could get America's government to name Russia's spy "Mr Russian Spy".

...that said, I wouldn't be too surprised if the writer of this fluff didn't realize that. Cause Games Workshop.

 Lynata wrote:

Wyzilla wrote:We know for one that there is an Alpha Legion agent picking off Ultramarine descendents for one, he killed off an entire chapter via an intricate plot of indoctrinating the youth of the planet they drew recruits from via psyker mindfething. Once he gave the signal, all those who were turned into sleeper agents, near the entire chapter, let themselves be killed off and the entire ~1,000 Space Marines were wiped out in a swift blow (though it should be noted that he was supported by a full warband of the Black Legion with their resources).

Just for the records - was this in a Codex or some novel?

Short story. "The Long Games at Carcharias" by Rob Sanders. From the "Victories of the Space Marines" anthology.

TiamatRoar wrote:
(...)
...that said, I wouldn't be too surprised if the writer of this fluff didn't realize that. Cause Games Workshop.

I think this is the truth. It was sort of an unwilled easter egg.
Anyway, it is still funny. And perhaps whoever wrote the Codex was an Alpha Legion Marine in disguise. (Or an Alpha fanboy).

Well, the Legion does not need to infiltrate the whole Regiment, though maybe faking their IDs would be possible. Something along the lines of:

"eleventyfirst Pyjama warriors? There was a recent change of plans in the administratum, your reinforcements will consist of this other regiment, the Alphic Hydras".

Though in this case, the whole recruiting process is interesting. And having just one or two bigwigs in the schola - which wouldnt be that difficult to pull off would allow the legion to send in pre-trained recruits into the schola, maybe even shifting their mindwipe order in a fashin that the right candidates are brainwashed on paper only. And since both, Schola training and Space marine selection consists to a good chunk of "we put you in a surprising situation and see how you do", people who come prepared and actually know the challenge and have trained beforehand what they have to do would have an advantage.
That is, if it's not running like this
Ultrasmurf: "Abbot, who's the best this year?"
Alpha Legion Operative: "Well, noble Spess Muhreen, Alphicus, Alphonsius, Alpharionius and Hydralphius are the most capable this year"
Ultrasmurf:"Fair enough, send them over"

Well, I, for one, will be painting my Scions in these colors. Awesome colour scheme, and some pretty neat background in my opinion!

Also, someone on the beloved /tg/ pointed out this:

>The 32nd Thetoid Eagles command structure is wiped out fighting the Alpha Legion. The regiment disappears.
>The 55th Alphic Hydras deploy alongside the Ultramarines repeatedly
>Men from the Alphic Hydras are recruited into the Ultramarines chapter.

 thenoobbomb wrote:
Well, I, for one, will be painting my Scions in these colors. Awesome colour scheme, and some pretty neat background in my opinion!

Also, someone on the beloved /tg/ pointed out this:

>The 32nd Thetoid Eagles command structure is wiped out fighting the Alpha Legion. The regiment disappears.
>The 55th Alphic Hydras deploy alongside the Ultramarines repeatedly
>Men from the Alphic Hydras are recruited into the Ultramarines chapter.

Interesting.
Were the Eagles renamed the Hydras?
The problem with this whole conspiracy theory is that in order for the AL to start naming regiments, they would have to have a good hold on the Schola.
It would be like if Putin owned the Pentagon.

What's so difficult about infiltrating a Schola Progenium?
Basically, that's just a bunch of Drill Abbots, some servitors, maybe some Administratum Bigwig. It's just a glorified boot camp. I think it very well within the capability of the AL to infiltrate a single Schola. From then on it's just a matter of establishing ties to a chapter you want to corrupt.

Could some one please fill me in on this theory, i have no idea as to what you all are talking about haha. Thank you

 tko75 wrote:
Could some one please fill me in on this theory, i have no idea as to what you all are talking about haha. Thank you

Read the thread?

I can't believe nobody brought this up yet, but the piece itself if your read it carefully says that the incidence of them working with the ultramarines has recently increased manifold. Consider please that the naming sequence could have already been in place for hundreds of years if not much longer. If I were an alpha legionaire , and I am not saying that I am or denying it for that matter, I would find it a delicious irony to infiltrate this scion regiment just because it is already called the Alphic Hydras. Is already respected beyond reproach or else it would have been purge long ago as others have pointed out. And I would simply step in and twist the dagger that others have so carelessly left lying around. Heck I would do this because it can be done with the dedication of a single alpha legionaire and a bunch of indoctrinated little orphans. How easy is it really in the imperium to forge some documents claiming this random kid i picked up and mindwiped is the infant son of some dead imperial guard officer that we get 100 of every emperor-be-damned minute. Geting to the ultramarines if they are stupid enough to let me get that far is just a bonus, the real objective is that this IS such a visible and suspect course of action. Let them see me comming if they can. They won't notice the other 15 daggers I have ready to stab in their backs if they are only looking at me.

Alright, that's a good point. it's a lot more plausible that the Alpha Legion did NOT name this regiment, but instead singled it out eventually because of its name. It's still the equivalent of being a devil in plain sight and painting a big red bullseye on their infiltrators, but Book 3 Extermination states that the Alpha Legion purposefully makes things harder than they have to just to challenge themselves.