Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Read what I wrote.

Casual 40k is still an awesome game with tons of fun. If you have TFG / WAAC friends who always buy the latest, OP stuff and play complete cheese lists to crush their enemies, it's not the game you gotta blame, but the people you play with.

I played Necrons when they were utter trash and completely worthless and had tons of fun because I'm not going in expecting to win every match, I love my army and its fluff (the ACTUAL fluff, not the crap Matt Ward came up with).

You, for yourself, have to figure out what you want. Want to crush your enemies and win everytime? Play Tau / Eldar and faceroll everything, zero skill required.

Want to just have fun with the game and have a good time? Look for a gaming club in your area, settle down with them and enjoy fun 40k games.

If you build an adequate Anti-Tank army with multiple Anti-Tank Flyers, i'm sure you would have a good chance at a win while playing a more "Casual" 40k Army.

Multi-Meltas, Meltaguns and cheap troops everywhere for target saturation should work relatively well

 Sigvatr wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Use the GW counter:

Buy the new expensive stuff to counter your friend's new expensive stuff.

So you want to have a money fight eh?



You're not going to be able to handle my Jeffersons!

It's not what I want, it's what 40k has become. I still run a list with no flyers or Transcendant "I win" C'tan and the last GW thing I bought was in October '13. Sadly, though, 40k is all about "Who can throw more money at me?" nowadays on a comp level. The entire escalation release's only aim is to sell you D weapons...conveniently placed on expensive models.

Until you look at Nick Nanavati's Winning Daemon list...that list is cheap!

I have started running one or two imperial knights with my guard if I have the points. Their very fun to play with. I have learned that the easiest way to let one die is for it to get out flanked and hit from the side.

They can easily be killed by two squads with massed HW or anti tank weapon. One squad hits it from the front while the other hits it from the side. The other way is flyers. Imperial knights are VERY weak against any kind of flying unit. NEVER try and take one on in close combat. You’ll lose every time or be so bloodied that whatever unit did the fighting will be effectively out of the game. Overall they are great units but not a huge game changer. Have not successfully fought a Knight or Riptide though.

If you want a cheap hobby look elsewhere, rumor has it though that gw are going to cap this high end expensive warfare in 7th edition with a percentage based point split.

However for now simply run low point games or varied rules. We ram a small group of games which had all heavy support and fast attack banned. Lots of fun and many dusty dreadnoughts were seen


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like I posted a stormwing gives you some fightback against those units, if you still want to fight those other guys. But otherwise this an uphill struggle

The OP has a terrible list for anti-armor.
Make those devs las cannons dudes.
Make those termies with thunder hammers.
Give las sponsoons to the pred.
Deep strike mm dreds.
Stormtalons.

Why are ml devs no good any more. is dev centrions with las cannon and ml good. not a fan of grav weapons i perfer longer range ant tank. if i run side sponsors on pred i really can't move it and shoot

zilka86 wrote:
Why are ml devs no good any more. is dev centrions with las cannon and ml good. not a fan of grav weapons i perfer longer range ant tank. if i run side sponsors on pred i really can't move it and shoot

Who was your English teacher and why aren't they fired yet?

And yes, Imp Fist Lascannon/ML Dev cents are potent long ranged anti-tank units thanks to getting a good number of accurate shots with tank hunters from great distance.

 Kain wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Just really chessy that i have to use escalation to stand a chance any more. i guess 40k is just a arms race. good by to fun causal games. now its waac our your not doing it right

There is no such thing as WAAC. Just some players can do math and statistics, and others can't.

WAAC usually refers to outright cheating and bad sportsmanship to pull a win.

That's not how Ailaros and others use it. Anyone who wants to field a list that isn't Eldar bait is called "WAAC".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zilka86 wrote:
Why are ml devs no good any more. is dev centrions with las cannon and ml good. not a fan of grav weapons i perfer longer range ant tank. if i run side sponsors on pred i really can't move it and shoot

True story: ML devs never were really that good. Only Long Fangs. True story.

Martel732 wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
Just really chessy that i have to use escalation to stand a chance any more. i guess 40k is just a arms race. good by to fun causal games. now its waac our your not doing it right

There is no such thing as WAAC. Just some players can do math and statistics, and others can't.

WAAC usually refers to outright cheating and bad sportsmanship to pull a win.

That's not how Ailaros and others use it. Anyone who wants to field a list that isn't Eldar bait is called "WAAC".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zilka86 wrote:
Why are ml devs no good any more. is dev centrions with las cannon and ml good. not a fan of grav weapons i perfer longer range ant tank. if i run side sponsors on pred i really can't move it and shoot

True story: ML devs never were really that good. Only Long Fangs. True story.

i loved ML devs in my BA.... especially 5th early 6th..

y9ou want to stop the big toys bring the right tools... LC is great, and the ohhh i dont like grav wont stand up... one of the more potent weapons. if you want to hamstring yourself thats ok, but thats not how you beat these op lists...

Oh. So noted. That was my reflexive ML dev post.

Back to the topic of countering Titans and less badmouthing would be awesome, I guess

How does my list not have a nuff ant tank i have seen list with less must eldar spam s8

text removed.

Reds8n

I have seen many army list with less ant tank eldar spaming s6 -s8 weapons and they do fine

Elder have lots of Lance weapons that treat the enemy's AV as 12 if higher than 12.

zilka86 wrote:
I have seen many army list with less ant tank eldar spaming s6 -s8 weapons and they do fine

The Eldar have weapons that tend to work either just as well or almost as well against high AV targets as they do against low-AV targets like Distort weapons, haywires, lances, and fragon meltas.

I played against my first riptide yesterday and it caused havoc, lasted the whole game with 2 wounds left and of the three it lost one was self inflicted!

I laid almost every heavy weapon I had on it turn one and then lost a hell of a lot by turn two so was reduced to bolters and the odd ml taking pot shots at it for the rest of the game, and therein lies it's real strength...

I should have worried about making dents into the rafts of Pathfinders with their pesky markerlights and Firewarriors lined up to lay some real hurt onto my troops. It is a hard target to ignore but other than my Storm Talon and a few troops here and there it did very little damage to my army, you just can't resist shooting it.

 throwoff wrote:
I played against my first riptide yesterday and it caused havoc, lasted the whole game with 2 wounds left and of the three it lost one was self inflicted!

I laid almost every heavy weapon I had on it turn one and then lost a hell of a lot by turn two so was reduced to bolters and the odd ml taking pot shots at it for the rest of the game, and therein lies it's real strength...

I should have worried about making dents into the rafts of Pathfinders with their pesky markerlights and Firewarriors lined up to lay some real hurt onto my troops. It is a hard target to ignore but other than my Storm Talon and a few troops here and there it did very little damage to my army, you just can't resist shooting it.

My games vs Tau usually end up with another short game of catch the Riptide.

Don't ever try killing these guys unless there's nothing else left.

Riptides are way over the top and should be ignored as much as possible. Focus on the rest and try to win the game.

Exactly, wipe out the Firewarriors, take down the markerlights, leave them with nothing but a Riptide and they won't win the game.

I have enough firepower to obliterate his Pathfinders but spent the turn faffing around shooting at the big guy.

buy a cheapish unit of 9 space marines, with a powerfist (or equivalent) champion, add on a cheap HQ with another powerfist and then charge the wraithknight/riptide. put out enough attacks that wound easily and disallow saves and you'll get the job done. it's easier for us ork players as we can assault out of anything, but as a wraithknight aint a character, it's easily dealt with.

against a riptide, maybe use a librarian instead for instant-death.

I've not had to deal with the knights but personally, for space marines, I'd bring a vindicator and some land speeders with mullimeltas. just get yourself lined up for 2 armour values and he'll have to pick which to get cover from. then if the speeders do the job, you can always use the vindicator to blow up infantry etc.

as an ork player, I'd bring boarding planks - oh, you have titan close combat weapons? shame you can't fight back as I swing these powerklaws into you...

Grav Weapons are the best weapon the Marines have against Riptides and Wraithknights if you want to kill them. It may be time to rethink your feelings on them.

Imperial Knights you'll want to give him a bad choice of which facing his ion shield is (or just drop pod melta around him).

Riptide should have been a vehicle in order to have it face hard counters (or rather more and more easily accessible ones).

How will i stand up to writhknights and riptides in c&c. as they are mc i have great respect for mc after my dreads where smashed by some really big bugs

Basically, you pick a dedicated cc unit, charge them and win. Dreads aren't dedicated cc units.

No space marine can stand up to any mc

zilka86 wrote:
No space marine can stand up to any mc

If that's your opinion, fine, let's leave it at that.

Objectively, you're as wrong as one can be. But since you are not even willing to take your codex, have a look into it and search for weapons or models that might have a fighting chance against MC, you will just stay that way. Fine for the rest of the community, I guess. You cannot expect us to literally tell you every single method of dealing with every single problem. YOU are the one looking for a solution, so YOU should be the one who starts making some research first.

Everyone on DakkaDakka will be glad to help you with specific questions, but at this point, everyone gave you so many hints and you were not willing to accept either of these, let alone use them as an inspiration to do some dedicated research on your own. And that is where even my patience ends. I love helping players in need of advice, but I am not going to spoon-feed users who are not interested in becoming better on their own. Sorry.

You like playing the victim, you think that your enemies are unfair and that you have no chance to beat them.

You have one big problem:

You are not looking for advice, you are looking for confirmation.

Sorry, but that's something we cannot give you.

I have learned that when sm fight in c&c the will die ever time. i have many chapter master with many different war gear proxys get killed by mc. The don't stand a chance against even ork warbosses. tau the weakest army in cc will shoot them dead before they get a chance ever assualt unit in sm codex is no good hammnters die just as easy as all marines

Chapter Master, Artificer Armor, Shield Eternal, Thunder Hammer. Throw him at nine out of ten MCs. They will die.