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My reaction to someone wanting to run a chaos knight would depend on the situation.


For a friendly game with a buddy, no problem.

For a random pick up game with a stranger, I'd probably give you a funny look, then roll with it.

As a player in a tournament, I'd shrug and roll with it, but I'd be a little miffed.

As an event organizer, it's not happening.

If anyone is a Douche, it's the guy who turned up to an event with an illegal model, expected to play, then made a fuss when he was told no.

I think it would depend on how many Heldrakes he brought along

 marv335 wrote:
If anyone is a Douche, it's the guy who turned up to an event with an illegal model, expected to play, then made a fuss when he was told no.

Wiser words have never been spoken.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 marv335 wrote:
If anyone is a Douche, it's the guy who turned up to an event with an illegal model, expected to play, then made a fuss when he was told no.

Wiser words have never been spoken.

Yeah, especially if it's a competitive event, folks have expectations in a situation like that and the last thing you want to do is throw a curve like that.

If it's a friendly game, then absolutely… I'd love to play against a Chaos themed Knight,especially this one from Dakka's Painting & Modeling forum!

Chaos Knight I would personally accept. They're in the background and I'm actually surprised there are not rules for them.

You're also not a jerk for saying no however, if you don't want to play it it's better to not force yourself trying to not seem like one. They'd probably enjoy playing against someone into the game as well so it would be more enjoyable for both people.

I think the key is how one declines. Frankly, once you start making up stuff, the game takes on a whole new light, right? Because I mean...you as a player are now injecting content. So you are playing "40k+1" at that point -- your own version of the game. That opens up a can of worms.

I try to always teach the folks at my club that it is okay to decline a game as long as you are polite about it. There is no reason you can't do this, and there is no need to bring up that the customized player is "wrong" (technically he isn't, the books encourage things like this, but that's another thread entirely).

I tell all of our players that, if they are judging how another person is playing, they are not really doing the right thing -- this kind of reaction serves no purpose other than self-aggrandizement.

It also puts the onus of jerkish behavior on the other guy. If you say, "Ah no thanks man, I don't really like to play against custom stuff if that's cool" he is either going to have to accept it and move on or be unhappy about it, but in either case, you haven't been a jerk to him -- just honest. Most people appreciate it.

In a planned event, this is a very different animal, though -- these should, for the purpose of competition, be 100% by the book.

At a game event? Hell no you shouldn't allow it; it's not per the rules, and an event should follow the rules to the letter since the rules are ambiguous enough as it is without injecting more custom house rules into it.

If it was a friendly game or some "narrative" thing? Then sure why not, Chaos *do* have Knights, even if the current rules don't support it.

You say sure, but i want to field my baneblade with my tyranids. Some genestealers managed to loot it. =P

For a competitive tournament, you have to stick with the rules ( and ignore the "have fun making rules" rule). Especialy if there is a prize for the winner. Else, you'd have people showing up with an Emperor class titan.

People seem to be very picky about whats ok and what isnt. Super heavies are HATED in my area. But every one allows the broken eldar allies combos even though its hated just as much. People play the game how they want to play it.

My thoughts are this. Be open mided to adding and removing rules in friendly games. Consider changing rules when orginizing events. Try new things, but dont play a game with anyone who is only concened with how THEY enjoy the game. Play in a way both parties enjoy.

At a tournament where you have paid money to play against other RAW armies in the hopes of winning prizes in the form of money/money analogues/product, then no, you are not a dbag for saying no.

In friendly walk in game, where nothing is on the line but personal pride, it would be dbaggish to not play him.

You were not out of line. If you were polite about declining the game, it sounds like he over reacted.

Addaran wrote:
Else, you'd have people showing up with an Emperor class titan.

Honestly if someone builds a really darn good Imperator Titan chances are they deserve to win something just for having spent the months designing, assembling and painting of the beast (and having the guts to then transport the whole thing to the game table).

There are two questions wrapped up in that.

The first is, should an event allow an illegal list, which is what happened. The answer for everybody's sake is usually "no," and there's nothing douchy about not extending an exception on the day of an event.

The second is if combinations like that should be allowed by events, clubs, and stores in general. That answer is murkier, with good reasons for and against, but in general, I think pretending that the allies rules are anything other than arbitrary is a bit silly, and allowing stuff like that could be fun. YMMV,

 Overread wrote:

Addaran wrote:
Else, you'd have people showing up with an Emperor class titan.

Honestly if someone builds a really darn good Imperator Titan chances are they deserve to win something just for having spent the months designing, assembling and painting of the beast (and having the guts to then transport the whole thing to the game table).

Haha, true in a way.

Now i wanna see someone bring an exterminatus fleets to a casual 2000 game.

 Igenstilch wrote:
People seem to be very picky about whats ok and what isnt. Super heavies are HATED in my area. But every one allows the broken eldar allies combos even though its hated just as much. People play the game how they want to play it.

My thoughts are this. Be open mided to adding and removing rules in friendly games. Consider changing rules when orginizing events. Try new things, but dont play a game with anyone who is only concened with how THEY enjoy the game. Play in a way both parties enjoy.

Maybe on the other hand showing up to an event with something that breaks the rules and then feeling ENTITLED to it is pretty lame, I know if I showed up with something that people might quite reasonably say know too I'd have a back up plan. that way if someone objects I've still got a perfectly cool unit to play with.for 370 points a CSM player could sub in some of the following options.

1: 3 Vindicators.
2: 1 fully loaded Deamon Prince and a squad of bikers.
3: 2 helldrakes with some points to spare for upgrades (maybe VOTLW on a key troop choice)
4: A land raider and a Maulerfeind.


and thats just some obvious "low model count" choices. many of which are argueably a better choice then taking a knight

General Hobbs wrote:
Gets upset and angry and belligerent when someone says its not legal.

This is the part I have a problem with. The primary burden is on the person modifying the rules to not be a jerk, not the other way around. Playing a game with someone is a privilege; playing with rules modified for your benefit is an extra-special privilege and you have no right to be upset if someone refuses you a game.

General Hobbs wrote:


Guy comes in to a game event with a chaos marine army, and wants to use an allied chaos knight. Gets upset and angry and belligerent when someone says its not legal.


Are you a douchebag when you say no to something like this?

Another time I remember a guy from another area came in with Nids allied with guard. His previous region had allowed it. The organizer took a vote and everyone was ok with it.

Thoughts?

Chaos Knights are illegal, and he knew that when he bought it. The onus is on him, not his opponent.

However, to be honest, I wouldn't play a Knight in any rate, legal or not. Super Heavies belong in Apocalypse. If people want to play with them, that's cool. I'll look at their awesome paint jobs, but have no interest in it.

Nid Allies with IG? No thanks. Best of luck to you, though!

Happy gaming!

 kronk wrote:

Nid Allies with IG? No thanks. Best of luck to you, though!

Happy gaming!

See when I think of Nids allies with Guard, I imagine a Genestealer-cult kinda list. That would actually be a lot of fun.

Although I can still totally see why you wouldn't want to play against them.

 Happyjew wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Davor wrote:
Sad thing, geeks and nerds can't handle anything that is outside of the book. Player creativity be damned.

That is a ridiculous generalisation, and patently untrue given how many gamers do come up with their own houserules, homebrew army lists, scenarios and conversions.

Furthermore, most of the posters have already said in a friendly game they wouldn't care.

It's one thing to say on the internet, another thing to do in real life. I guess I just haven't met the right people to play with I guess. :(

Davor wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Davor wrote:
Sad thing, geeks and nerds can't handle anything that is outside of the book. Player creativity be damned.

That is a ridiculous generalisation, and patently untrue given how many gamers do come up with their own houserules, homebrew army lists, scenarios and conversions.

Furthermore, most of the posters have already said in a friendly game they wouldn't care.

It's one thing to say on the internet, another thing to do in real life. I guess I just haven't met the right people to play with I guess. :(

Whether you believe me or not doesn't matter. However, I personally, at least in friendly games, have no problem with people allying CtA armies, having illegal army lists, or using homebrewed rules.

General Hobbs wrote:


Guy comes in to a game event with a chaos marine army, and wants to use an allied chaos knight. Gets upset and angry and belligerent when someone says its not legal.

I was unaware 40k now had rules for one of these things in the first place.

General Hobbs wrote:


Guy comes in to a game event with a chaos marine army, and wants to use an allied chaos knight. Gets upset and angry and belligerent when someone says its not legal.


Are you a douchebag when you say no to something like this?

Another time I remember a guy from another area came in with Nids allied with guard. His previous region had allowed it. The organizer took a vote and everyone was ok with it.

Thoughts?

Normally I wouldn't care much in a friendly game, but I wouldn't play against people that react like that to a 'no' backed up by the rules.

No one is ever a douchebag for following the rules (now how they choose to mention those rules can be very douchebaggy, but that's an attitude problem with the person not in general). Now could people opt to still play the guy? I don't see why not as long as it's not an event. Especially if he took the time to convert the model up too.

Only acceptable response:

I don't think a chaos knight is impractical. I would still play against it. It just makes sence for there to be a chaos version of it like the chaos warhound and chaos reaver.

 TheKbob wrote:
Only acceptable response:

Spoiler:

Followed by paying for your opponent's army that you wrecked by flipping the table.

Our GW store houseruled that the knights can ally with anything. In the first WD (and this is totally GW's fault with miscommunication) it was all Imperial knights can ally with anything, and provided rules for the knights! When the knight codex dropped a week later, then we got the rules that said no 'nids, no chaos, no orks. no necrons.

In the knight fluff, houses fell all over the place. To Chaos, to ork worlds, to world that got eaten by 'nids, and probably tombworlds. So if you go by the fluff, you should be able to take a knight with anything.

Now I have 'nids, and even though I bought a knight, I was pretty sure there was no way GW was going to let me ally it with my nids, before the codex dropped. (I'm making my knight adeptus mechanicus, for the record). (And I play with my knight in apoc, anyway).


As for playing something illegal, I don't expect that to fly in a tourney. In fact, even though I've never been to one, and I started playing in Jan, i expect a lot of stuff to be WYSIWYG, and really strict, unless stated otherwise.

In a friendly game, I expect things to be declared and allowed, within reason. If you want to try something out "just to see what would happen" then, let's have a discussion, hash out some stuff, throw the dice and we can see what happens, you know?

I have played my 'nids with my knight because my fiancee wanted to see what it would against (wraithknight DE). It was about 1200 points, relic game, and we tied.