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coredump wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

coredump wrote:
There is not mechanism for closing them, ...

What are you basing that idea on?

The drop pod rules state that upon landing the hatches are blown. It says nothing about being able to close them again. (My use of mechanism was meant as in a rules mechanic, not as in a part of the Pod in the fluff.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
And there is nothing in the disembarking rules that requires a vehicle model to have the doors physically open in order for the embarked models to get out.

But the Drop Pod rules do say the "hatches are blown".

If the rules state that the hatches are blown... and you *don't* do that.... are you following the rules?

Just as there is no requirement for a model's legs to physically move when they run.

True, but there is no game effect by the legs not moving. The rules also don't state I must keep the model upright when I move it....

Please quote the rules that tell us how to blow the hatches...

If you can not then it is not a rule and as such means nothing. So similar to a model's legs there is no game effect behind The hatches are blown.

Honnestly the Drop-Pod doors have to be opened as far as I know. Why else does it even say Open-Topped if the thing can be used as a solid object according to some people

And according to fluff. When the hatches blow it means the mechanisms that hold the doors explode. After battle most Drop-Pods that are still in okay shape get retrieved and repaired. And by hatches blown they mean all the hatches.

It might not say how to blow the hatches, but do you have any sense of logic and/or common sense at all?

Cause the two are completely unrelated, one is a Special Rule and the other is the physical Model. All that matters, form a Rule as Written perspective, is if the Special Rule is present and after that point you have permission to ignore the access points on the model when it comes to disembarking the Unit inside. While I personally believe the doors are intended to be open, the existence of this Rule is not 'Rule as Written' support for this interpretation and we would need something more solid such as instructions telling us to open the doors or ignore the doors for all Rule Purposes.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
Honnestly the Drop-Pod doors have to be opened as far as I know. Why else does it even say Open-Topped if the thing can be used as a solid object according to some people

There are not any actual rules stating that the doors have to be opened.

And according to fluff. When the hatches blow it means the mechanisms that hold the doors explode. After battle most Drop-Pods that are still in okay shape get retrieved and repaired. And by hatches blown they mean all the hatches.

Except Fluff is not rules...

The fluff says The hatches are blown. So I assume to follow this we are supposed to affix explosives or Pneumatics to our drop pods to have the hatches blown?

Or we can realize that the hatches are blown is just a fluff sentence as there are no rules for how the hatches are blown.

It might not say how to blow the hatches, but do you have any sense of logic and/or common sense at all?

And here is the issue...

Real World Common sense/Real World Logic/how it works in the real world has no bearing on the 40k Ruleset.

Remember: The rules were not written to be "Modern day real world" logical.

The rules are an abstract system used to simulate a battle in the year 40,000.

What would happen in the modern day real world has nothing to do with the RAW, or the simulation of a battle fought 38,000 years from now. (and maybe not even on a planet with the same physical makeup as our earth, and probably different physics as well).

As such they need to have some compromises to make the game playable.

 DeathReaper wrote:


Please quote the rules that tell us how to blow the hatches...

If you can not then it is not a rule and as such means nothing. So similar to a model's legs there is no game effect behind The hatches are blown.

Drop Pod assault says "choose half of your drop pods"... please quote the rule that tells us how to choose half of your drop pods.

If you can not, then it is not a rule and as such means nothing.

Or.... maybe... just maybe... they write the rulebook using standard english so that they do not have to explain each and every thing they say to do.
If you don't know what it means to 'choose half' or to 'blow hatches' what you need is a dictionary.

This was not found in some 'fluff' section of the book, it is taken word for word from the *rule itself* for the Transport Capacity. You can't just ignore that part of the rule....


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JinxDragon wrote:
All that matters, form a Rule as Written perspective, is if the Special Rule is present and after that point you have permission to ignore the access points on the model when it comes to disembarking the Unit inside. While I personally believe the doors are intended to be open, the existence of this Rule is not 'Rule as Written' support for this interpretation and we would need something more solid such as instructions telling us to open the doors or ignore the doors for all Rule Purposes.

You have no rule support for your assertion. The *rule states* to "blow the hatches"..... do you have a rule that allows you to ignore that instruction? What semantics are you arguing that you would accept 'open the doors' but reject 'blow the hatches'??


Automatically Appended Next Post:

There are not any actual rules stating that the doors have to be opened.

Except, you know, where it *explicitly states* that the pod lands and then the "hatches are blown". Which means... the doors are opened. (it implies forcefully, but not necessarily.)

My 'assertion' was in direct reference to someone claiming that the Open Topped Rule as evidence that the doors must be open. All I did was point out that it doesn't matter what the Model looks like, it could be nothing more then a solid metal cube and still would allow troops inside to disembark if it was Open Topped. Should you want me to quote Page and Paragraph to support the conclusion that the Open Topped Rule does not mean that it has to have a clear way for troops inside to disembark I am just going to point to the Open Topped rule itself, page 82. After all, the sub-section with the same name begins with this sentence: Open-topped vehicles do not have specific Access Points.

A claim that the doors must be open, because that is where the troops disembark from, is identical to claiming that the doors are access points....

coredump wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:


Please quote the rules that tell us how to blow the hatches...

If you can not then it is not a rule and as such means nothing. So similar to a model's legs there is no game effect behind The hatches are blown.

Drop Pod assault says "choose half of your drop pods"... please quote the rule that tells us how to choose half of your drop pods.

There is no rulebook definition so we fall back on the normal English definition.

If we fall back on the normal English definition with Drop Pods I will demand that you affix Exposives or Pneumatics to your drop pod hatches so you can blow them (Well the hatches are blown it does not tell us to blow the hatches). Or you can realize that The hatches are blown does not mean anything to the 40k ruleset.

If you can not, then it is not a rule and as such means nothing.

Incorrect. The game is written in English e need to know that language to play the game.

Or.... maybe... just maybe... they write the rulebook using standard english so that they do not have to explain each and every thing they say to do.

This is correct...

If you don't know what it means to 'choose half' or to 'blow hatches' what you need is a dictionary.

I know exactly what they mean, but then you would have to affix Explosives or Pneumatics to your drop pods to blow the hatches...

This was not found in some 'fluff' section of the book, it is taken word for word from the *rule itself* for the Transport Capacity. You can't just ignore that part of the rule....

Except The hatches are blown is not a rule, it is fluff as it means nothing in the 40k Ruleset, unlike choose 1/2 your drop pods.

coredump wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:
All that matters, form a Rule as Written perspective, is if the Special Rule is present and after that point you have permission to ignore the access points on the model when it comes to disembarking the Unit inside. While I personally believe the doors are intended to be open, the existence of this Rule is not 'Rule as Written' support for this interpretation and we would need something more solid such as instructions telling us to open the doors or ignore the doors for all Rule Purposes.

You have no rule support for your assertion. The *rule states* to "blow the hatches"..... do you have a rule that allows you to ignore that instruction? What semantics are you arguing that you would accept 'open the doors' but reject 'blow the hatches'??

Well it is fluff and not an instruction, so yea we can safely ignore it.

It says the hatches are blown, it does not say that we open the doors. So you set the model on the table and then the hatches are blown. if you move the doors you have performed an illegal action because it does not tell you to blow the hatches, it says it just happens.

I have set my Drop Pod on my table and I will watch and see if it blows the hatches, I am optimistically awaiting the result of this experiment!

deathreaper wrote:There are not any actual rules stating that the doors have to be opened.

Except, you know, where it *explicitly states* that the pod lands and then the "hatches are blown". Which means... the doors are opened. (it implies forcefully, but not necessarily.)

Okay so the model will blow the hatches, still waiting for my pod to blow the hatches.

I rolled scatter dice and everything and still nothing.

Wait a minute, the rule is "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark."

So the Drop Pod has to land first, am I supposed to drop it onto the table? maybe I should launch it from a Thunderhawk that is flying high above the table and try to hit my intended landing point?

How exactly are the hatches blown?

Opening the doors carefully by hand does not fit the normal English definition of the sentence "the hatches are blown"

So what rule dictates "the hatches are blown" How do we accomplish this?

Personally I think drop-pods are awesome, I don't have access to them as Imperial Guard, but I love the aesthetic.

I prefer the following interpretation:
* If the doors are glued shut:
** All doors are treated as being open
** Shooting through the model grants a 5+ cover to the target.
** Line of sight from the gun is not blocked by the doors.

* If the doors may move independently:
** The deploying player is allowed to determine which doors will be open and which doors will be closed. This decision cannot be altered after deployment.
** Closed doors block LOS, for both the emplaced gun and for those firing through the drop-pod.
** Open doors are not treated as part of the hull.
** Models walking on the open doors themselves treat the door as clear terrain.

The principal advantage of the custom-door deployment is to provide a turn or so of safety for the deployed troops to gather themselves before they rush into the madness.

DeathReaper: I find it humorous that when it suits you, you treat English as a sensible language that can be simply interpreted... and when it suits you, you treat English as a morass of confusion, that is to be ignoreed...

Convenient... but it draws my participation to a close.

coredump wrote:
DeathReaper: I find it humorous that when it suits you, you treat English as a sensible language that can be simply interpreted... and when it suits you, you treat English as a morass of confusion, that is to be ignoreed...

Convenient... but it draws my participation to a close.

That is not accurate, please retract the statement.

We know what the common English definition of "choose half of your drop pods" means. It means if you have 4 Drop Pods, Choosing half of them would mean you pick two of them...

However

The hatches are blown. That means... Explosives are needed on the Drop Pod to blow the hatches by your interpretation of RAW...

Or we can realize that it is fluff because the hatches of a Drop Pod are never blown, since the model does not come with Explosives or Pneumatics.