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1. We using proxy drop pods for game play testing. What is the dimensions of the drop pod? Specifically the size of the base?

2. When the pod deep strikes the rules state the doors are blown off. Can you pick and choose which doors to blow off or do they all come off regardless? IE can you choose to leave a door on to block los from one direction?

3. The rules state that it can not come within 1 inch of an enemy model, does this measurement come from the base of the drop pod? Or from the doors after they are blown off?

4. The rules also state that models that can not be placed are lost. Are you able to place the models in the drop pod with the doors off? Or do all models need to be placed within 6 inchs outside of the drop pod?

1. They have roughly the footprint of the large blast marker. So 5” diameter.

2. My read of the rules says they are all open. YMMV.

3. Measurements from the hull, so doors don’t count.

4. You must disembark, and can’t get back in. If you land in a really tight spot, you may loose guys. Pick a LZ carefully.

1. About the size of a pint Solo cup.

2. Most play it that you can see through it. Some folks glue their doors for painting ease. Other times terrain dictate they must be left closed. I avoid those players who say that it blocks LOS.

3. Most play as base only and rotate to fit or fudge to avoid wobbly model syndrome.

4. I think they MUST FULLY disembark per rules.

1) A Drop Pod is approximately 15cm / 6" tall, and the base is a pentagon equivalent to a circle 7cm / 3" in diameter (the fins stick out a bit more and doors obviously add to it - more on that later).

2) There are quite a few arguments that "the hatches are blown" is a fluff statement (unless you think the rules require you to actually use tiny explosives to open your Pod doors), and GW has consistently ignored clearing up any pod-related questions, so no-one really knows. But consider, would you be allowed to alter any other model (the actual model, not it's placement) once it's on the table for the express purpose of denying LoS?

3) You need to agree this with your opponent (or Tournament Organizer) - either you ignore the doors and only measure to the 'hull' (like you would for a Rhino, for example), or you count the doors as hull (including needing to keep the Pod 1", disembarking distance, enemy weapon ranges etc.), keeping it consistent is the most important thing.

4) You may not place models in the Pod once it's landed, in the same way you cannot place models on top of a Rhino - whether this includes placing models on top of the open doors depends on the above question.

You'll probably get a different answer for 2-4 for each poster here, so I'll say that my HIWPI for Drop Pods is that the doors are not hull but they must all be opened.

redleader187 wrote:
1. We using proxy drop pods for game play testing. What is the dimensions of the drop pod? Specifically the size of the base?

As others have said it is about the size of the large blast marker (Slightly smaller at the base).

2. When the pod deep strikes the rules state the doors are blown off. Can you pick and choose which doors to blow off or do they all come off regardless? IE can you choose to leave a door on to block los from one direction?

It does not say that the doors are blown off, It does not mention Blown Off at all. The fluff states the hatches are blown. It does not mention if the doors need to be opened or closed, so treat them how you would a Rhino that disembarks its passengers, if you do not open the doors of the rhino there is no need to do so for any other vehicle.

How you put the model on the table is how it has to stay for the entire game (Save for weapons that need to be pointed at their target).

3. The rules state that it can not come within 1 inch of an enemy model, does this measurement come from the base of the drop pod? Or from the doors after they are blown off?

No one knows. However most people play it that the doors do not count for Line of Sight, being within 1 inch of an enemy model and disembarking.

4. The rules also state that models that can not be placed are lost. Are you able to place the models in the drop pod with the doors off? Or do all models need to be placed within 6 inchs outside of the drop pod?

You can not put models inside of the drop pod (Not that there is any room to do so anyway. You need to be on the terrain (Open ground is open terrain) of the battlefield within 6 inches of the Drop Pod.

 doktor_g wrote:
I avoid those players who say that it blocks LOS.

Why?

All models and terrain block Line of Sight if the model or terrain block Line of Sight.

A rhino's doors block Line of Sight to things on the other side of the Rhino, do you "avoid those players who say that it blocks LOS" as well? if not why the inconsistency?

 DeathReaper wrote:

redleader187 wrote:
1. We using proxy drop pods for game play testing. What is the dimensions of the drop pod? Specifically the size of the base?

As others have said it is about the size of the large blast marker (Slightly smaller at the base).

2. When the pod deep strikes the rules state the doors are blown off. Can you pick and choose which doors to blow off or do they all come off regardless? IE can you choose to leave a door on to block los from one direction?

It does not say that the doors are blown off, It does not mention Blown Off at all. The fluff states the hatches are blown. It does not mention if the doors need to be opened or closed, so treat them how you would a Rhino that disembarks its passengers, if you do not open the doors of the rhino there is no need to do so for any other vehicle.

How you put the model on the table is how it has to stay for the entire game (Save for weapons that need to be pointed at their target).

3. The rules state that it can not come within 1 inch of an enemy model, does this measurement come from the base of the drop pod? Or from the doors after they are blown off?

No one knows. However most people play it that the doors do not count for Line of Sight, being within 1 inch of an enemy model and disembarking.

4. The rules also state that models that can not be placed are lost. Are you able to place the models in the drop pod with the doors off? Or do all models need to be placed within 6 inchs outside of the drop pod?

You can not put models inside of the drop pod (Not that there is any room to do so anyway. You need to be on the terrain (Open ground is open terrain) of the battlefield within 6 inches of the Drop Pod.

 doktor_g wrote:
I avoid those players who say that it blocks LOS.

Why?

All models and terrain block Line of Sight if the model or terrain block Line of Sight.

A rhino's doors block Line of Sight to things on the other side of the Rhino, do you "avoid those players who say that it blocks LOS" as well? if not why the inconsistency?

I believe the gun is modeled hanging from the ceiling inside the drop pod. If you play the doors can stay closed, how do you rule that the gun inside the drop pod can shoot outside?

redleader187 wrote:

I believe the gun is modeled hanging from the ceiling inside the drop pod. If you play the doors can stay closed, how do you rule that the gun inside the drop pod can shoot outside?

The gun is inside. So if you are the kind of person who plays with closed doors blocking LOS, remember to trace LOS from the barrel of the gun. This will impact what the SB can shoot at.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

redleader187 wrote:
I believe the gun is modeled hanging from the ceiling inside the drop pod. If you play the doors can stay closed, how do you rule that the gun inside the drop pod can shoot outside?

The Storm Bolter is indeed inside the pod so it can't shoot outside If the doors are closed.

If you can not draw Line of sight from the storm bolters mounting along the barrel to your target, you can not shoot that target.

Just like with every other vehicle weapon in the game...

I glue mine shut for ease of moving it and to stop clutter on the field. If the troops disembark then they must have open doors to disembark from thus the doors should be considered open once it lands but the doors do nothing further. All measurements are done from the hull itself, not the doors including disembarking.

We have never not played that you cant see through a drop pod and shoot guys on the other side. They should however get a cover save of whatever you group decides on, we go with 4+.

My only exception is the Deathstorm just so I can tell it apart but all measurement from it will be made from the hull or guns as well.

Col. Dash wrote:
I If the troops disembark then they must have open doors to disembark from thus the doors should be considered open once it lands but the doors do nothing further.

So do you require rhino's and Landraiders to have doors that can open as well?

Nothing in the rules states the doors must be open to have the passengers disembark from a vehicle.

All measurements are done from the hull itself, not the doors including disembarking.

Most people I know play it this way as well. I think this is a common accepted view in most places.

We have never not played that you cant see through a drop pod and shoot guys on the other side. They should however get a cover save of whatever you group decides on, we go with 4+..

Here is the issue with having the doors closed and still being able to "see through a drop pod and shoot guys on the other side"

The Drop pod, even with the doors open blocks Line of Sight to a lot of models. How do you determine which models are visible if the doors are closed?

 DeathReaper wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
All measurements are done from the hull itself, not the doors including disembarking.

Most peopl I know play it this way as well. I think this is a common accepted view in most places.

As a Drop Pod player, I always let my opponent decide, but after I remind them that counting doors as part of the hull would mean I could start my deployment at the tip of the door, I've never had a single opponent decide to play it that way.

We have never not played that you cant see through a drop pod and shoot guys on the other side. They should however get a cover save of whatever you group decides on, we go with 4+..

Here is the issue with having the doors closed and still being able to "see through a drop pod and shoot guys on the other side"

The Drop pod, even with the doors open blocks Line of Sight to a lot of models. How do you determine which models are visible if the doors are closed?

This is indeed the issue. (True Line of Sight and Modeling for Advantage also come up in this argument.) To forestall a repeat of the same argument over the course of several pages, I will direct interested parties to this thread. Two thirds of responding Dakkanauts believe that the doors should always be treated as open, which to my mind is enough of a majority to assume that is the default position in a friendly game, but 28% (those who felt that TLOS should reign supreme in this issue) is a significant enough minority that I always check with TOs before a competitive event, just to make sure how they're going to rule it should work.

You misunderstand, I said I glue mine closed, but they are considered to be open, just like in your case, a rhino or land raider is assumed to be open.

We just make the assumption you can see through it. Unless the guys are in a congo line behind the center console(or are just short models) some part of the squad is going to be visible through open doors. Thus the 4+ cover save.

Col. Dash wrote:
You misunderstand, I said I glue mine closed, but they are considered to be open, just like in your case, a rhino or land raider is assumed to be open.

I'll boldly speak for DR, and probably for all others here, when I say that I cannot see through a Land Raider, even if I "assume" that the doors are open. I would guess that you have never played that you can see through a LR either. Why, then, if both the DP and the LR have "open doors" (that aren't modelled open), do you play each vehicle model differently?If you can see through the Pod, you should be consistent and also see through the LR. If you can't see through the LR, then you should be consistent and also not see through the DP.

HIWPI: I think TLOS is the simplest, least-fussy way to play it. Saying, "I can see through it" leads to inconsistencies and problematic calls, as shown above. I also think that your DP doors should not be glued closed, since this grants a significant advantage to the Marine player, who now has a large LoS-blocking tower that he can place wherever he wants. The trade-off of not being able to shoot your storm bolter is really not even worth mentioning. It's two Str4 shots...losing that is nothing compared to preventing your opponent's Devastators/Havocs from hitting your tanks for a turn.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
You misunderstand, I said I glue mine closed, but they are considered to be open, just like in your case, a rhino or land raider is assumed to be open.

I'll boldly speak for DR, and probably for all others here, when I say that I cannot see through a Land Raider, even if I "assume" that the doors are open. I would guess that you have never played that you can see through a LR either. Why, then, if both the DP and the LR have "open doors" (that aren't modelled open), do you play each vehicle model differently?

Considering you are relating 2 or 3 COMPLETLY different vehicles no you cant speak for me. I have seen the rhino models with doors open and True los you cant see through it because ITS A TANK. The drop pod is however models entirely different and you can draw LOS through it with ease. Whether or not the doors "blow" open during landing or not the doors have to fall off for the models to leave.

Unless you allow models to just walk through armored hulls and cremate walls?

osirisx69 wrote:
Unless you allow models to just walk through armored hulls and cremate walls?

On Rhinos and Land Raiders that are glued shut, that's exactly what happens.

osirisx69 wrote:

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
You misunderstand, I said I glue mine closed, but they are considered to be open, just like in your case, a rhino or land raider is assumed to be open.

I'll boldly speak for DR, and probably for all others here, when I say that I cannot see through a Land Raider, even if I "assume" that the doors are open. I would guess that you have never played that you can see through a LR either. Why, then, if both the DP and the LR have "open doors" (that aren't modelled open), do you play each vehicle model differently?

Considering you are relating 2 or 3 COMPLETLY different vehicles no you cant speak for me. I have seen the rhino models with doors open and True los you cant see through it because ITS A TANK. The drop pod is however models entirely different and you can draw LOS through it with ease. Whether or not the doors "blow" open during landing or not the doors have to fall off for the models to leave.

Unless you allow models to just walk through armored hulls and cremate walls?

Except of course, for the fact that there is no rule saying that doors have to be open to disembark.

Why is it everyone is fine with Land Raiders, Chimeras, Rhinos, Wave Serpents, etc. not requiring the door(s) to be open in order for models to disembark, but people are insistent that in order to disembark from a drop pod, the doors have to be open?

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
Unless you allow models to just walk through armored hulls and cremate walls?

On Rhinos and Land Raiders that are glued shut, that's exactly what happens.

As for the rhinos and other such models, they are irrelevant to this debate as we are talking about drop-pods but I will bite:

No it is not what happens. You assume that is what happens because you can't find a rule against it. Yet there are literally pages text saying marines exit out rhinos through the access doors.

The strawman argument that a rhino is the same as a drop pod is tired worn and really not worth it. 2/3 of the populace here agree that the drop pod does not block LOS and that is good enough for my TO and local gaming group.

osirisx69 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

osirisx69 wrote:
Unless you allow models to just walk through armored hulls and cremate walls?

On Rhinos and Land Raiders that are glued shut, that's exactly what happens.

As for the rhinos and other such models, they are irrelevant to this debate as we are talking about drop-pods but I will bite:

No it is not what happens. You assume that is what happens because you can't find a rule against it. Yet there are literally pages text saying marines exit out rhinos through the access doors.

The strawman argument that a rhino is the same as a drop pod is tired worn and really not worth it. 2/3 of the populace here agree that the drop pod does not block LOS and that is good enough for my TO and local gaming group.

Even when it actually does block LoS? You can hide a Dreadnaught behind a properly constructed Drop Pod with the doors down.

Do all the doors have to open?

If I drop pod in and only want two of my doors to open, could I do that?

Oh, and a drop pod fully open can block LoS.

When I play I use a laser pen for LoS issues and I've had a fully open pod block a considerable amount of space on the other side

 Happyjew wrote:



Why is it everyone is fine with Land Raiders, Chimeras, Rhinos, Wave Serpents, etc. not requiring the door(s) to be open in order for models to disembark, but people are insistent that in order to disembark from a drop pod, the doors have to be open?

For me the difference is in how the doors operate.

Rhino's etc seem to work like a standard car. Doors open to get in/out but can then be closed. The vehicle does not drive around with its doors open, and does not need to open all of the doors for the passengers to get out.

A Drop Pod, otoh, automatically blows all of the doors open upon landing. There is not mechanism for closing them, and the vehicle doesn't go anywhere.

To be clear, I am not sure where I stand on the actual issue of the Drop Pod and LoS... but I am sure that it *is* significantly different than dealing with a Rhino or Land Raider.

coredump wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:



Why is it everyone is fine with Land Raiders, Chimeras, Rhinos, Wave Serpents, etc. not requiring the door(s) to be open in order for models to disembark, but people are insistent that in order to disembark from a drop pod, the doors have to be open?

For me the difference is in how the doors operate.

Rhino's etc seem to work like a standard car. Doors open to get in/out but can then be closed. The vehicle does not drive around with its doors open, and does not need to open all of the doors for the passengers to get out.

A Drop Pod, otoh, automatically blows all of the doors open upon landing. There is not mechanism for closing them, and the vehicle doesn't go anywhere.

To be clear, I am not sure where I stand on the actual issue of the Drop Pod and LoS... but I am sure that it *is* significantly different than dealing with a Rhino or Land Raider.

Really this is the crux. We should keep this topic on pods not rhinos or any other thing with doors.

What bugs me is that the things flower out into ~8" diameter. Then people ignore the doors when they are down. But the system uses TLOS and those doors are a part of the models hull. There is also no clarification in the rules as to how many doors open, or if they in fact can't close. RAI being open topped I assume at least one should remain open. Playing it that way, I can BLOS, shoot my storm bolter or ML and disembark from the tip of the open door. I am fine playing it however my TO or opponent is comfortable but I do think it should be fair and consistent. I think the easiest way to model a pos is to glue it shut. It is what I did, because the thing is a pain to deploy otherwise and I hate when the doors slap my opponents models. I think maybe I should have made them without the doors entirely.

Erggg lol. Ok the comment originally was about doors being closed and someone made a comment after I said the doors should be considered in order for troops to disembark and someone made a comment if that was true then I had to also assume the doors of a land raider and rhino had to be open as well. The whole thing was an argument about glueing the doors shut and whether you could close the doors or if they have to open in the first place.

As a vehicle whose crew had to disembark upon landing when the doors open, even if you glue the doors shut like I do, you have to assume the doors are still open. In my group we allow shooting through an drop pod giving a 4+ save to guys on the other side. That's it. True LOS generally says you cant see through a LR or rhino, but can a drop pod in most situations.

Col. Dash wrote:
As a vehicle whose crew had to disembark upon landing when the doors open, even if you glue the doors shut like I do, you have to assume the doors are still open.

This is not true in the rules. I can not find anywhere that says you "have to assume the doors are still open" when the doors of a model are closed.

The doors being closed on the model have nothing to do with the disembarking rules, at all.

 DeathReaper wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
As a vehicle whose crew had to disembark upon landing when the doors open, even if you glue the doors shut like I do, you have to assume the doors are still open.

This is not true in the rules. I can not find anywhere that says you "have to assume the doors are still open" when the doors of a model are closed.

The doors being closed on the model have nothing to do with the disembarking rules, at all.

I cant find anywhere in the rules where it says you may bring your models back on the board anytime you want either but we all know we can't.

Oh boy, looks like we're doing THAT thread again!

coredump wrote:
There is not mechanism for closing them, ...

What are you basing that idea on?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

osirisx69 wrote:
Really this is the crux. We should keep this topic on pods not rhinos or any other thing with doors.

Mentioning other vehicles is relevant, because of the double standard mentioned already.

The fact that the drop pod is designed differently doesn't change how the disembarking rules work. And there is nothing in the disembarking rules that requires a vehicle model to have the doors physically open in order for the embarked models to get out. Just as there is no requirement for a model's legs to physically move when they run.

Well if we're down THAT road again, I seem to recall the FW drop pod rules to show the intent that THEIR pods should be opened. Whatever that means

osirisx69 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
As a vehicle whose crew had to disembark upon landing when the doors open, even if you glue the doors shut like I do, you have to assume the doors are still open.

This is not true in the rules. I can not find anywhere that says you "have to assume the doors are still open" when the doors of a model are closed.

The doors being closed on the model have nothing to do with the disembarking rules, at all.

I cant find anywhere in the rules where it says you may bring your models back on the board anytime you want either but we all know we can't.

I never said it doesn't say I cant, I said the rules do not say that you "have to assume the doors are still open" when the doors of a model are closed. Therefore we do not assume the doors are still open when the doors of a model are closed. It is really that simple.

The rules do say to use True line of sight. Not using true line of sight is against the rules.

 insaniak wrote:

coredump wrote:
There is not mechanism for closing them, ...

What are you basing that idea on?

The drop pod rules state that upon landing the hatches are blown. It says nothing about being able to close them again. (My use of mechanism was meant as in a rules mechanic, not as in a part of the Pod in the fluff.)



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:
And there is nothing in the disembarking rules that requires a vehicle model to have the doors physically open in order for the embarked models to get out.

But the Drop Pod rules do say the "hatches are blown".

If the rules state that the hatches are blown... and you *don't* do that.... are you following the rules?

Just as there is no requirement for a model's legs to physically move when they run.

True, but there is no game effect by the legs not moving. The rules also don't state I must keep the model upright when I move it....