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It also takes a few times to figure them out for you.
It took me a few games and they always do well [Usualy killing off or at least wrecking a 10 model unit], until I fail a Moral Check, then they run off the board.

Going after DEVs, TACs and Scouts is one thing can do real good, escpecialy with the Flamers.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
So, basically their just useless?
I refuse to accept that.
Someone give me something good about them!!! Some use they have, some niche they fill!

They prove that guardsmen have some diet variation...

Sometimes a unit just doesn't work. There are two dozen real units in the book, and Rough Riders are the duff one.

Even under the best of circumstances, highly fragile assault units have been a poor gambit in 40k. You either need huge numbers (orks, nids, blobs), crazy good buffs (nids/blobs), or a reliable delivery method (outflank/transport). In 6th, you can't assault out of reserve or a transport, meaning the enemy will always get to shoot your light assault unit, followed by an overwatch.

In a way, the rules of logic finally caught up with 40k.

I haven't used mine all that much, but when I built the unit I gave them melta guns with the idea in mind to attack armored units. Not necessarily transports but light or medium armor. If the melta shots don't get it the Strength 8 charge will. At least in theory.

Also, due to their speed, I am wondering if a few small units with meltas wouldn't make good Knight hunting parties. If you got a few on various sides of a Knight you'd be able to ensure some of your melta shots wouldn't contend with the Knight's shield.

Despite having hunting lances, I think they should probably avoid close combat entirely.

I think they have two uses:
* Flamers can get a devastating number of hits if you are in the right position. That 12" move can really make that happen.
* They come with krak grenades built-in. Another weapon that needs proper positioning to be effective. Get into assault with a vehicle and plant those grenades.

 Polonius wrote:
Sometimes a unit just doesn't work. There are two dozen real units in the book, and Rough Riders are the duff one.

Even under the best of circumstances, highly fragile assault units have been a poor gambit in 40k. You either need huge numbers (orks, nids, blobs), crazy good buffs (nids/blobs), or a reliable delivery method (outflank/transport). In 6th, you can't assault out of reserve or a transport, meaning the enemy will always get to shoot your light assault unit, followed by an overwatch.

In a way, the rules of logic finally caught up with 40k.

The only thing to add to that is "Sometimes a Unit Does not work for some People". I will admit that Rough Riders need something to fix them, W+1, T+1, Being able to take Las-Guns or a Second Las-Pistol, or even even just the ability to have a Priest or Comisar to take a Mount.
I am probably make myself a Comisar or a mount and Take a Chaplin on a bike along with a Scouts as Allies to hopfuly give them a Punch.
I have always done poorly with PSi-Riflemen Dreads [sometimes only killing 2-3 models and etire game] even vs Orks and Nids, yet mt Blood Claws [Usuayl killing off 2-3 Units a game] are the scourge of our group.

i still have a death rider commissar model. and yeah the death riders out class the rough riders by a lot. but they are nice for small games for getting flamer/melta in to the back areas of your opponents army with that 12" move. i like them at 1000pts recon games as there highly mobile special weapon squads.

They were usable before the codex update. I tried a full squad with Mogul Kamir and they did great. 4 attacks on a charge with s5 ap3 ini5, Fearless. They totally wiped most things with 3+ saves if they could charge. But now they got nerfed for some reason. Maybe cause gw is planning to create some sort of formation with rough riders + 1. Will we see death riders as legit supplement soon?

For gaks and giggles I could see attaching a WS chaplain on a bike to the squad.

Give them scout and zealot BAMN hits like a mother fething tank turn two.

Personally I love them, yes it was an excuse to use the very lovely and very expensive death rider models but..
They give a cheap throwaway unit , mobile compared with your average guardsmen the Calvary movement and choice of 2 special weapons is neato I keep the unit small and use as a counter measure
A unit of 6 , with 2 plasma guns and plasma pistol or 2 meltaguns and meltabombs is about the same as 2 bog standard taurox
I use them to counter anything that's getting too close to my gun line a suicide unit to take out \finish off a major threat for line breaker or late game contesting
For 90 or so pts really ain't bad and tend to be low on list of opponent priority but yeah I'd stay well clear of any type of close combat

Kaliban101 wrote:
Personally I love them, yes it was an excuse to use the very lovely and very expensive death rider models but..
They give a cheap throwaway unit , mobile compared with your average guardsmen the Calvary movement and choice of 2 special weapons is neato I keep the unit small and use as a counter measure
A unit of 6 , with 2 plasma guns and plasma pistol or 2 meltaguns and meltabombs is about the same as 2 bog standard taurox
I use them to counter anything that's getting too close to my gun line a suicide unit to take out \finish off a major threat for line breaker or late game contesting
For 90 or so pts really ain't bad and tend to be low on list of opponent priority but yeah I'd stay well clear of any type of close combat

Or be an easy first blood for a long-range shooty unit. But so is everything that is susceptible to enemy fire...

Agree completely mate mine tend to hide behind my Russ squad or something equally los blocky
and not come out until they get their one turn of glory before horrible bloody death but pop something nasty or finish off that unit who were just on the end of a FRFSRF which prevents my squishy gun line having to engage in filthy close combat and they normally justify the points
Who knows perhaps 7th might bring something new to Calvary but yeah not holding my breath

To the OP

Not sure how you worked out your original attack vs the space marines,but you had 8,which should have given you

8 in 10 attacks right off via flailing hooves
followed by 25 strength 5 in 5 pw attacks,,even at ws 3 that should have killed more than 4
remember,1 base,+1 for the additional ccw(pistol),plus one for the charge,and the sarg has 2 base,

I have found that rough riders excel at hugging terrain,or buildings or what have you,and out flanking and attacking that way,or by hiding behind other units to rush out and counter attack ,but in the end they usually only get one turn of glory before their jobs done,,,,,and they are allowed to die

Gomericus wrote:
To the OP

Not sure how you worked out your original attack vs the space marines,but you had 8,which should have given you

8 in 10 attacks right off via flailing hooves
followed by 25 strength 5 in 5 pw attacks,,even at ws 3 that should have killed more than 4
remember,1 base,+1 for the additional ccw(pistol),plus one for the charge,and the sarg has 2 base,

I have found that rough riders excel at hugging terrain,or buildings or what have you,and out flanking and attacking that way,or by hiding behind other units to rush out and counter attack ,but in the end they usually only get one turn of glory before their jobs done,,,,,and they are allowed to die

Remeber Hunting Lances are not Specialist Weapons

I believe they actually are specialist weapons

 Leth wrote:
I believe they actually are specialist weapons

And you win an internet Cookie!!!111!!

Seriously, you are correct, according to the AM codex.

Is it chocolate chip or oatmeal raisin?

Oatmeal raisin is where its at.

But in all seriousness I am interested in seeing what they do to cavalry in the new edition(like imagine if calvary get scout in their main rules). Pretty much every judgement is on hold till 7th drops since I believe that IG and tyranids at a minimum were designed with 7th in mind(seriously so many things make no sense in the tyranids book and a few things seem off in the IG book). I am still building my death riders of krieg because they are sweet models that WILL see table time. It just means the rest of the list has to be super tight.

Sometimes when i look at model's rules i get a feeling that they were designed to be useful in the edition after the one coming after the next one. Probably in like 10 years or so.

 koooaei wrote:
Sometimes when i look at model's rules i get a feeling that they were designed to be useful in the edition after the one coming after the next one. Probably in like 10 years or so.

Oh, 'Dubs...

How you tease us...

I have 10 riders too. And never used them. Is there any allied character who can boost them? Some wolf marine or biker?

 Freakazoitt wrote:
I have 10 riders too. And never used them. Is there any allied character who can boost them? Some wolf marine or biker?

Canis Wolfborn or Khan or a build a captain/chapter master biker.

Not sure why you'd do that though, as majority toughness would greatly nerf their durability.

I took them again last game against necrons, and they worked well as a counter-punch unit. Hid them behind a bastion, and when the necron warriors got close enough to RF my tank, I let them go! two were killed on overwatch, but the remaining eight managed to down 9 warriors! 5 were killed on the strike backs, but the warriors failed there break test, and were run down. Awesome. Of course, next turn they were doomsday arced to death, but whatever, at least that ark didn't go for my tank!!

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
I let them go! two were killed on overwatch, but the remaining eight managed to down 9 warriors! 5 were killed on the strike backs, but the warriors failed there break test, and were run down.

That's a pretty important aspect of Rough Riders that I had failed to consider before. By front-loading their wounds, they have a pretty decent chance to trigger a sweeping advance that first turn. It's a real shame that they only have Initiative 3 for this though, it would be nice if their lances not only gave +2 to their Initiative, but also increased the initiative used in Sweeping Advance. But the rules are quite clear, units use their unmodified initiative during sweeping advance.

madric wrote:

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
I let them go! two were killed on overwatch, but the remaining eight managed to down 9 warriors! 5 were killed on the strike backs, but the warriors failed there break test, and were run down.

That's a pretty important aspect of Rough Riders that I had failed to consider before. By front-loading their wounds, they have a pretty decent chance to trigger a sweeping advance that first turn. It's a real shame that they only have Initiative 3 for this though, it would be nice if their lances not only gave +2 to their Initiative, but also increased the initiative used in Sweeping Advance. But the rules are quite clear, units use their unmodified initiative during sweeping advance.

Yes, the advantages and disadvantages of riding a sentient creature (versus one-handing a motor bike while swinging a sword) aren't really well incorporated into the ruleset. Running down fleeing enemies is the thing that cavalry do best.

Why are rough riders WS 3?

Why are hunting lances roll to hit and not hammer of wrath?

How do infantrymen outrun cavalry when running away?

Anybody tried to use cavalry in kill-team? I think, they will have more chance to survive and kill someone than in bigger size games.

I think in a low points game I will run a squad of calvary with a white scars captain attached. Gives them hit and run, can tank pretty well for the squad

Dont forget calvary have hammer of wrath attacks.

in 5th ed i used RRs all the time. Especially with Mogul Kamir i was so sad to see him go. I remember a 10 man squad with kamir wiping out a squad of grey hunters with ragnar in there in one turn. Oh how amazing it was.

Now i would never consider using them without being death riders. Any idea if they plan to update DKoK soon or do i just not have the most current link?

They said when I asked it was a low priority and might take awhile

 Tenzilla wrote:
Dont forget calvary have hammer of wrath attacks.

in 5th ed i used RRs all the time. Especially with Mogul Kamir i was so sad to see him go. I remember a 10 man squad with kamir wiping out a squad of grey hunters with ragnar in there in one turn. Oh how amazing it was.

Now i would never consider using them without being death riders. Any idea if they plan to update DKoK soon or do i just not have the most current link?

I asked and got a confirmation that FW will be updating all of it's Imperial Guard variant lists early into 7e/6.5e.

Now what they mean by "early" is anyone's guess.

Melee is dead!! So by default any unit that still use melee is redundant