Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So, I finally tried Rough Riders. I was... disappointed. I had a squad of eight make it into combat with a space marine tactical squad. I was super excited, then realized their weapon skill 3. Oh, that's fine, I have... 1 attack base. Well, I charged, and... wait... Hunting Lances are specialist weapons?!?! In the end, I killed 4 marines, and every rider was wiped out save one, who promptly ran of the table. I really love these guys, and want them to work, but there really, REALLY terribad. Am I using them wrong, or is there something im missing? I just converted up a squad of 10, and ill be damned if Im not going to use them!!

40k is based in the deep dark future where armies are comprised of massive armored tanks, monstrous creatures, demons and endless horrors and you are riding easily frightened herbivores into battle. What did you think would happen?

Dekken442 wrote:
40k is based in the deep dark future where armies are comprised of massive armored tanks, monstrous creatures, demons and endless horrors and you are riding easily frightened herbivores into battle. What did you think would happen?

I Dunno... something?

Rough Riders were easily the worst fast attack choice the guard had in 5e before they got a huge dump taken on them by the edition shift. They're easily one of the worst units in the game.

So, basically their just useless?
I refuse to accept that.
Someone give me something good about them!!! Some use they have, some niche they fill!

I can see a use for them as a counter-attack unit, held back until the enemy hit your lines.

Or if you can outflank them with the Warlord Trait.

They die just as easily as guardsmen, so you need to make sure they're not being shot at until they get to combat.

The problem isn't they're useless, just that there's better ways to skin the same cat...

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:

Dekken442 wrote:
40k is based in the deep dark future where armies are comprised of massive armored tanks, monstrous creatures, demons and endless horrors and you are riding easily frightened herbivores into battle. What did you think would happen?

I Dunno... something?

This lesson was found out the hard way in 1939.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
So, basically their just useless?
I refuse to accept that.
Someone give me something good about them!!! Some use they have, some niche they fill!

They're power lance carrying guardsmen who run faster and cost more.

That's their problem.

They die too easily, cost too much, and do too little.

They can be used though I'm sure.

Maybe for charging something already tied up in assault.

 Kain wrote:
Maybe for charging something already tied up in assault.

Maybe following a unit Bullgryns?

 grendel083 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Maybe for charging something already tied up in assault.

Maybe following a unit Bullgryns?

Yeah, but then they lose their charge bonus, and they go from terrible to useless. Ive tried charging weak/squishy units like battlesuits, but by the time I get to them usually half the units dead, and I manage to kill a battlesuit or a shield drone... if im lucky.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Maybe for charging something already tied up in assault.

Maybe following a unit Bullgryns?

Yeah, but then they lose their charge bonus, and they go from terrible to useless. Ive tried charging weak/squishy units like battlesuits, but by the time I get to them usually half the units dead, and I manage to kill a battlesuit or a shield drone... if im lucky.

Why would the loose the charge bonus?

Ogryns provide cover (and a juicier target), and once they charge in, the Riders charge in after them.

 Kain wrote:
Rough Riders were easily the worst fast attack choice the guard had in 5e before they got a huge dump taken on them by the edition shift. They're easily one of the worst units in the game.

Scipio used Masque of Slaanesh.
...
It's super in(effective)

Rough riders are a waste of time, but they're far from the worst 40k has to offer.

RR NEED an option for a 4+ save. if they could get a 4+ save, they go from being bolter fodder to being a decent counter-punch unit.

 grendel083 wrote:

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Maybe for charging something already tied up in assault.

Maybe following a unit Bullgryns?

Yeah, but then they lose their charge bonus, and they go from terrible to useless. Ive tried charging weak/squishy units like battlesuits, but by the time I get to them usually half the units dead, and I manage to kill a battlesuit or a shield drone... if im lucky.

Why would the loose the charge bonus?

Ogryns provide cover (and a juicier target), and once they charge in, the Riders charge in after them.

Because, with two units locked in the combat, they would be making a disordered charge. If they charged simultaneously, this wouldn't be a problem, but then the RR's mobility is wasted, and there probably dead by then. Even if they ran behind the bulgryns, with so many ignores cover weapons nowadays there still as good as dead.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
Because, with two units locked in the combat, they would be making a disordered charge. If they charged simultaneously, this wouldn't be a problem, but then the RR's mobility is wasted, and there probably dead by then. Even if they ran behind the bulgryns, with so many ignores cover weapons nowadays there still as good as dead.

That's not how a disordered charge works.

If one unit charges two units, that's a disordered charge.

I'm talking about two units charging one. That is most definitely NOT a disordered charge.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Rough Riders were easily the worst fast attack choice the guard had in 5e before they got a huge dump taken on them by the edition shift. They're easily one of the worst units in the game.

Scipio used Masque of Slaanesh.
...
It's super in(effective)

Rough riders are a waste of time, but they're far from the worst 40k has to offer.

RR NEED an option for a 4+ save. if they could get a 4+ save, they go from being bolter fodder to being a decent counter-punch unit.

I've used Deathriders which have a flat out better statline (at substantially greater cost) and they're...okay. I wouldn't write home about them but they look sweet to say the least.

Rough Riders are going to die, either to shooting or to counter punches. You can't send them in at even a full tactical squad (essentially the Mendoza line for units you actually want in HtH).

When I've used rough riders, it's been as clean up. The last four marines that shooting didn't kill? Charge!

You also rolled a touch poorly. An eight man RR squad should kill five marines on the charge.

I run 3x 5 Death Korps riders and man do they wreck house. 2W, 4+ armor and 6+ fnp is pretty huge. They reroll dangerous terrain so they can run around terrain all they want and not care. Then 2A and a sergent with 3A makes them hit much harder. All for 30 points more per squad than rough riders. Plus they get krak grenades for tank hunting after charging once. Also worthwhile to get a 10 point power weapon on your 3A sergent, as you can then go for 5 attacks on the charge.

Give them two flamers so they can move 12" and clear out the enemy backfield. I feel the same as OP, just got 12 riders shipped and I really want to find a way to make them work.

I'd say put them on flamer or melta duty. Line breaker as a second goal.

 Kain wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Rough Riders were easily the worst fast attack choice the guard had in 5e before they got a huge dump taken on them by the edition shift. They're easily one of the worst units in the game.

Scipio used Masque of Slaanesh.
...
It's super in(effective)

Rough riders are a waste of time, but they're far from the worst 40k has to offer.

RR NEED an option for a 4+ save. if they could get a 4+ save, they go from being bolter fodder to being a decent counter-punch unit.

I've used Deathriders which have a flat out better statline (at substantially greater cost) and they're...okay. I wouldn't write home about them but they look sweet to say the least.

I considered deathriders, Still, rough riders are simply not as awful as the masque of slaanesh, which is first blood and stw rolled into one. Hell, she'll probably net your opponent linebreaker, too somehow. She is USELESS.

Isn't the Kreig version of them better?

 ductvader wrote:
Isn't the Kreig version of them better?

Vastly so. They're basically everything the rough rider should be.

And also, they're just incredibly awesome.

Who could say no to WW1 soldiers in space riding gas mask cyborg super-horses?

 Kain wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Isn't the Kreig version of them better?

Vastly so. They're basically everything the rough rider should be.

And also, they're just incredibly awesome.

Who could say no to WW1 soldiers in space riding gas mask cyborg super-horses?

I just tried to say "no." I failed.

 TheSilo wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Isn't the Kreig version of them better?

Vastly so. They're basically everything the rough rider should be.

And also, they're just incredibly awesome.

Who could say no to WW1 soldiers in space riding gas mask cyborg super-horses?

I just tried to say "no." I failed.

Playing "Ghost Riders in the Sky" when you're moving or charging Deathriders is also mandatory.

My favorite moment with them is when I killed an Angron with them in a 30k vs 40k game after a Dark Talon bomber reduced his initiative.

Death to traitors.

Only time I ever killed Angron was playing the old Daemonhunter Hexagrammic Wards formation.

Needless to say, it was a wonderfully fluffy battle.

(Sidenote: That Angron was modeled with a Fateweaver model permanently attached to him via a leash around its neck.)

I guess you could give them 2 plasma guns and jus use them as more mobile infantry?

Okay, new tactic:

Have them move from cover to cover, using their extra movement. Keep them low, keep them unthreatening. Have a tank soften up a backfield objective squad, such as grots or 5 fire warriors or whatever, then CHARGE!! Or, use them to kill targets of opportunity, such as a small squad of 'ard boys, or a devastator squad with lascannons. If my opponent decides to kill them, their cover save should keep them somewhat protected, and if not, well, at least he didn't shoot at something important. Im thinking an 8 man squad, possibly a power axe on the sgt., since it no longer replaces his lance, iirc. How does this sound?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ductvader wrote:
Isn't the Kreig version of them better?

Im not familiar with them. Whats the difference?

I say keep them cheap, throw as many flamers as you can on them, and then charge that unit and mop up. Also maybe reserve them for later and use them for taking line breaker, they move 12+D6 per turn so that's a possibility.

 Arbiter wrote:
I say keep them cheap, throw as many flamers as you can on them, and then charge that unit and mop up. Also maybe reserve them for later and use them for taking line breaker, they move 12+D6 per turn so that's a possibility.

If only we could give them demo charges.

If you really want to use them, ally in a kriege detachment and use those rules counts as. Gets you a deathrider command squad (officer on a horse basically), and a platoon of as many of the buggers as you want.

Theyre still T3, but 2W (I never understoond why GW thought that a friggin WARHORSE didnt give any stat bonuses at all), better weapon skill, more attacks, better armour, and have a 6+ FNP.
With deathriders, you can almost make a decent army of them, and have it be pretty scary.

 BlackTemplar1 wrote:
So, I finally tried Rough Riders. I was... disappointed. I had a squad of eight make it into combat with a space marine tactical squad. I was super excited, then realized their weapon skill 3. Oh, that's fine, I have... 1 attack base. Well, I charged, and... wait... Hunting Lances are specialist weapons?!?! In the end, I killed 4 marines, and every rider was wiped out save one, who promptly ran of the table. I really love these guys, and want them to work, but there really, REALLY terribad. Am I using them wrong, or is there something im missing? I just converted up a squad of 10, and ill be damned if Im not going to use them!!

Sounds like banshees