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Well at 1550 I came up with an armoured list. Feel free to say its its garbage or not

Librarian - wont do much except sit in a LRC
Techmarine + 3 Servitors - to give repairs on a 1+
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB

Strats - Two 5 man tacticals drop in and immediately melt enemy that can hurt the LRCs. eg a Lascannon Predator or LR Vanquisher.

Tactical and assault squads cruise around in LRCs capping and killing as needed.

Feasible? Impossible?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 scommy wrote:
Yes interesting stuff.

I did not realise Blood Angels get a fast Land Raider. I knew they could deep strike, but fast tank?.

Yes I can imagine the redeemer being very situational, so hard to get both cannons to bear.

No, the Landraiders in the BA codex are not fast, but they were able to deep strike.

Landraiders still go down against dedicated units, like Fire Dragons or Sternguard with combi-meltas.
Thus I'd still hesitate to use them in regular games.

I'm not so sure about that. 5 Melta's have less then a 50% chance of popping an LR, even less if you have a ++ or some cover. Plus, you have to get them in range, which generally means the LR pilot was asleep at the wheel. I think AV 14 will be quite competitive in this environment, particularly if it's OS or has the ability to project OS (like the Mono has).

 scommy wrote:
Well at 1550 I came up with an armoured list. Feel free to say its its garbage or not

Librarian - wont do much except sit in a LRC
Techmarine + 3 Servitors - to give repairs on a 1+
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB

Strats - Two 5 man tacticals drop in and immediately melt enemy that can hurt the LRCs. eg a Lascannon Predator or LR Vanquisher.

Tactical and assault squads cruise around in LRCs capping and killing as needed.

Feasible? Impossible?

Why would you ever want a 9 man tac squad? 5 or 10 are the primary choices, I can see 6 or 7 for extra wounds, but at 9 may as well go all in so you can combat squad.

ShadarLogoth wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 scommy wrote:
Yes interesting stuff.

I did not realise Blood Angels get a fast Land Raider. I knew they could deep strike, but fast tank?.

Yes I can imagine the redeemer being very situational, so hard to get both cannons to bear.

No, the Landraiders in the BA codex are not fast, but they were able to deep strike.

Landraiders still go down against dedicated units, like Fire Dragons or Sternguard with combi-meltas.
Thus I'd still hesitate to use them in regular games.

I'm not so sure about that. 5 Melta's have less then a 50% chance of popping an LR, even less if you have a ++ or some cover. Plus, you have to get them in range, which generally means the LR pilot was asleep at the wheel. I think AV 14 will be quite competitive in this environment, particularly if it's OS or has the ability to project OS (like the Mono has).

Just putting 2 and 2 together here, but I would be willing to bet those sternguard were meant to be drop podded in as close as possible to do a turn 1 kamikaze melta strike and hope for the best. You do have a valid point that they are far from guaranteed to pop it, but I can see where a hull point or two and maybe a weapon destroyed or immobilized roll early on could help out in later turns. Is it worth the points? I don't know, but it does have surprise and at least some chance of cracking that tough AV14 nut.

barnowl wrote:

 scommy wrote:
Well at 1550 I came up with an armoured list. Feel free to say its its garbage or not

Librarian - wont do much except sit in a LRC
Techmarine + 3 Servitors - to give repairs on a 1+
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB

Strats - Two 5 man tacticals drop in and immediately melt enemy that can hurt the LRCs. eg a Lascannon Predator or LR Vanquisher.

Tactical and assault squads cruise around in LRCs capping and killing as needed.

Feasible? Impossible?

Why would you ever want a 9 man tac squad? 5 or 10 are the primary choices, I can see 6 or 7 for extra wounds, but at 9 may as well go all in so you can combat squad.

Purely to stay at 1550. Obviously 10 man squads are nicer and if running into 1600 points would bump the squad up.

Also isn't 6 troop selection a maximum? I presume Combat squadding them would result in 8 troops choices making the list illegal. The assault marines with no packs are classified as infantry, not fast attack.

 scommy wrote:

barnowl wrote:

 scommy wrote:
Well at 1550 I came up with an armoured list. Feel free to say its its garbage or not

Librarian - wont do much except sit in a LRC
Techmarine + 3 Servitors - to give repairs on a 1+
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 9 marines
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Tactical squad 5 marines + Melta+Combimelta+Meltabomb
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
Assault squad with no backpacks + Drop pod
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB
LRC Melta + SB

Strats - Two 5 man tacticals drop in and immediately melt enemy that can hurt the LRCs. eg a Lascannon Predator or LR Vanquisher.

Tactical and assault squads cruise around in LRCs capping and killing as needed.

Feasible? Impossible?

Why would you ever want a 9 man tac squad? 5 or 10 are the primary choices, I can see 6 or 7 for extra wounds, but at 9 may as well go all in so you can combat squad.

Purely to stay at 1550. Obviously 10 man squads are nicer and if running into 1600 points would bump the squad up.

Also isn't 6 troop selection a maximum? I presume Combat squadding them would result in 8 troops choices making the list illegal. The assault marines with no packs are classified as infantry, not fast attack.

It is garbage. Storm bolters are not worth it, you cannot lend those drop pods to the tacticals, space marine infantry without special weapons are useless and your land raiders do not have objective secured. FOC is only something to be concerned about in list building. Combat squadding happens during the game, so you could get up to twelve troops from one space marine FOC.

If you want to run space marine land raiders, Blood Angels or Dark angels should be the preferred choice. For the "Sit in the raider with something useless", DA do it better with their bolterbanner and 4++ access. If you actually want to use the assault vehicle rules, BA does it better.

Raiders will still be totally screwed against grav-spam.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
As far as Objective Secured goes you have a few options:

-SMs: a LRC taken as a dedicated transport for a crusader squad (BT)

-DAs: a LR (any variant) taken as a dedicated transport for a Deathwing terminator squad (with Belial as your Warlord), of note, this one will have to be Venerable (which is good)

-BAs: I believe they can take them as dedicated transport for their assault squads

-SWs: unsure but could a wolf-guard unit be a troop choice with Logan? Can they take LRs as dedicated transports?

-GKs: same deal, with added options (psy-ammo, etc...)

As for SW - one unit of Wolf Guard can take any Land Raider as a dedicated transport. You don't have to include Logan to do that.
Logan just makes Wolf Guard troops choices.

Thanks a lot for the feedback - very useful

I made a BA list with a captain,
2 LRC with 10 man assault squads each,
1 LR with a 5 man assault squad,
drop pod with 2 squads of 5 man tacticals fully loaded with melta.

1498 points. Hard to say how it would go in practice, never know till trying it I guess.

If the LRC loses all its troops, can it still secure objectives and deny enemy troops getting objective secured if empty?

Or if the troops are sitting in the LRC parked next to enemy objective to prevent an enemy getting objective secured, is that enough? ie: do they actually need to get out of the LRC?

A thought I've been playing around with trying is the Land Raider Proteus with its special comms gear... Gives it scout plus has some other nice bonuses. Drawback is that its not an assault vehicle.

 scommy wrote:

barnowl wrote:
[

Why would you ever want a 9 man tac squad? 5 or 10 are the primary choices, I can see 6 or 7 for extra wounds, but at 9 may as well go all in so you can combat squad.

Purely to stay at 1550. Obviously 10 man squads are nicer and if running into 1600 points would bump the squad up.

Also isn't 6 troop selection a maximum? I presume Combat squadding them would result in 8 troops choices making the list illegal. The assault marines with no packs are classified as infantry, not fast attack.

6 troops is only the limit for building the FOC. once in play there is no limit, hence the popularity of Portaglyphs and Trevigons for spawning. In the Marine case you have Combat squading to go from 6 for the FOC, to 12 for taking objectives at deployment and totally legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scommy wrote:
Thanks a lot for the feedback - very useful

I made a BA list with a captain,
2 LRC with 10 man assault squads each,
1 LR with a 5 man assault squad,
drop pod with 2 squads of 5 man tacticals fully loaded with melta.

1498 points. Hard to say how it would go in practice, never know till trying it I guess.

If the LRC loses all its troops, can it still secure objectives and deny enemy troops getting objective secured if empty?

Or if the troops are sitting in the LRC parked next to enemy objective to prevent an enemy getting objective secured, is that enough? ie: do they actually need to get out of the LRC?

IS the LRC a dedicated Transport for the ASM Troop choice? IF yes then the LRC also has OS even empty.

barnowl wrote:

 scommy wrote:

barnowl wrote:
[

Why would you ever want a 9 man tac squad? 5 or 10 are the primary choices, I can see 6 or 7 for extra wounds, but at 9 may as well go all in so you can combat squad.

Purely to stay at 1550. Obviously 10 man squads are nicer and if running into 1600 points would bump the squad up.

Also isn't 6 troop selection a maximum? I presume Combat squadding them would result in 8 troops choices making the list illegal. The assault marines with no packs are classified as infantry, not fast attack.

6 troops is only the limit for building the FOC. once in play there is no limit, hence the popularity of Portaglyphs and Trevigons for spawning. In the Marine case you have Combat squading to go from 6 for the FOC, to 12 for taking objectives at deployment and totally legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scommy wrote:
Thanks a lot for the feedback - very useful

I made a BA list with a captain,
2 LRC with 10 man assault squads each,
1 LR with a 5 man assault squad,
drop pod with 2 squads of 5 man tacticals fully loaded with melta.

1498 points. Hard to say how it would go in practice, never know till trying it I guess.

If the LRC loses all its troops, can it still secure objectives and deny enemy troops getting objective secured if empty?

Or if the troops are sitting in the LRC parked next to enemy objective to prevent an enemy getting objective secured, is that enough? ie: do they actually need to get out of the LRC?

IS the LRC a dedicated Transport for the ASM Troop choice? IF yes then the LRC also has OS even empty.

Land Raiders purchased for BA AMS are objective secured dedicated transports.

barnowl wrote:

 scommy wrote:

barnowl wrote:
[

Why would you ever want a 9 man tac squad? 5 or 10 are the primary choices, I can see 6 or 7 for extra wounds, but at 9 may as well go all in so you can combat squad.

Purely to stay at 1550. Obviously 10 man squads are nicer and if running into 1600 points would bump the squad up.

Also isn't 6 troop selection a maximum? I presume Combat squadding them would result in 8 troops choices making the list illegal. The assault marines with no packs are classified as infantry, not fast attack.

6 troops is only the limit for building the FOC. once in play there is no limit, hence the popularity of Portaglyphs and Trevigons for spawning. In the Marine case you have Combat squading to go from 6 for the FOC, to 12 for taking objectives at deployment and totally legal.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scommy wrote:
Thanks a lot for the feedback - very useful

I made a BA list with a captain,
2 LRC with 10 man assault squads each,
1 LR with a 5 man assault squad,
drop pod with 2 squads of 5 man tacticals fully loaded with melta.

1498 points. Hard to say how it would go in practice, never know till trying it I guess.

If the LRC loses all its troops, can it still secure objectives and deny enemy troops getting objective secured if empty?

Or if the troops are sitting in the LRC parked next to enemy objective to prevent an enemy getting objective secured, is that enough? ie: do they actually need to get out of the LRC?

IS the LRC a dedicated Transport for the ASM Troop choice? IF yes then the LRC also has OS even empty.

Also have I missed something? When did assault marines without packs become a troop choice for non BA?

Sorry my bad they become infantry, not troop choices

Is an LRC x2 at 1k effective? Or too many points?

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
Is an LRC x2 at 1k effective? Or too many points?

Depends on the Army. For BT probably worth it since no Psychers and they DO get LR's as dedicated Transport. DW lists, probably not worth it.

barnowl wrote:

 MadMaverick76 wrote:
Is an LRC x2 at 1k effective? Or too many points?

Depends on the Army. For BT probably worth it since no Psychers and they DO get LR's as dedicated Transport. DW lists, probably not worth it.

I need to look into BT, with the changes to psykers, I don't like the unreliability of skills, so I am tempted to look into other HQ options, just unsure of its' effectiveness. Maybe BT is the way to go for me.

Actually now we can use apocalypse formations in normal games, check out the BA Lucifer attack force. Fast scouting Land Raiders.....

 Endriu Death Coy wrote:
Actually now we can use apocalypse formations in normal games, check out the BA Lucifer attack force. Fast scouting Land Raiders.....

What book is that in? It sound epic!

D

[Deleted]

 evildrcheese wrote:

 Endriu Death Coy wrote:
Actually now we can use apocalypse formations in normal games, check out the BA Lucifer attack force. Fast scouting Land Raiders.....

What book is that in? It sound epic!

D

http://murphy80.hubpages.com/hub/Apocalypse-Formations-List-Rules-Part-1

^Lists it there. Awesome list, but definitely a 2k+ in terms of points. The article is a little old. I really like the death company formation, just wish it was a little cheaper.

Not playing 7th edition myself, but surprised no one has mentioned the Spartan Assault Tank. It gets a rule that allows it to ignore the effects of melta as an upgrade, making it's AV14 a lot more durable.

It can also have a heavy flamer as an upgrade, plus turrets / missiles and whatnot, giving it a lot of firepower. In addition, it is an assault vehicle with transport of up to 25 models.

Given what I know about 7th edition, it seems like this would almost be OP.

Yep, I was planning on running a Chaos LR in a CSM allied detachment for my daemons (plan being to stick some Daemonettes or Bloodletters in it) then I thought.. hmm..Chaos Spartan!

20 Bloodletters, plus a herald for hatred locus, all charging out of what is now in 7th an incredibly durable tank? I like that idea!