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An anti-gun politican back peddling to save his skin. Nice.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a Ford, actually. I buy American.

You mean Canadian. Or Mexican.

That's my problem with the whole "buy American" thing.

I will buy a product that is

A) Not gak. I don't care how American something is, if it's gak I won't buy it. Want me to spend my money at home then build something decent.
B) Manufactured in America. I will gladly buy "Foreign Company" brand if my money goes to American workers, American Warehouse, American Sales Folks, the offices of "Foreign Company - USA Corp" before my final tiny chunk makes it to "Foreign Company - Foreign HQ".

I don't care about USA Corp not getting their cut of the money after firing US workers and sending the rest of my money to a foreign country.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a Ford, actually. I buy American.

Funny thing is, there are more "foreign" cars that are actually more domestic than "domestic cars now...hell, Subaru's are made in Indiana

My Honda was made in the USA. It's also a better car then anything Ford's ever put out since the 80s.

I'm of the personal opinion that if you can't hit what you're shooting at with 15 rounds, you probably don't need a firearm to begin with. There's no real utility to having a larger than 5-round mag anyway; as others have said, you can't hunt with any more than that so why would you own one other than "I want one because making pew pew sounds and firing off 30+ rounds makes me feel all manly."

I'm country. I was brought up to think of firearms as tools, not toys and to respect them accordingly. My grandpa wouldn't buy a chrome-plated whizbang wrench to work on his ford pickup and wouldn't own a machine-gun, assault-rifle or high-volume magazines for the same reason, there's no real good purpose. Tools have a purpose, toys are something you keep around because it's fun to play with.

Sorry, just my two cents. Personally I have no problem with limited-capacity magazine laws for the same reason I don't think I should be able to buy an abrams; some things should be just for the military. My 30-06 is all I need and hasn't failed to down anything I needed to down, at range yet. When my eyes get bad enough that I need to spray and pray to down a deer, I'll just hang up the rifle and switch to fishing.

 agnosto wrote:
I'm of the personal opinion that if you can't hit what you're shooting at with 15 rounds, you probably don't need a firearm to begin with. There's no real utility to having a larger than 5-round mag anyway; as others have said, you can't hunt with any more than that so why would you own one other than "I want one because making pew pew sounds and firing off 30+ rounds makes me feel all manly."

I was brought up to think of firearms as tools, not toys and to respect them accordingly.

Ever been around the wild boar in the South? Some buddies of mine bagged one near Campbell, and upon dressing it, discovered it had been shot... repeatedly and with calibers both large and small. With some animals it doesn't always matter how much you hit them, it's where. And somethings just need a ton of lead to be put down

I was raised the same, but still see a usefulness in having up to 30 rounds readily available, without a mag change or any other additional action.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Ever been around the wild boar in the South? Some buddies of mine bagged one near Campbell, and upon dressing it, discovered it had been shot... repeatedly and with calibers both large and small. With some animals it doesn't always matter how much you hit them, it's where. And somethings just need a ton of lead to be put down

I was raised the same, but still see a usefulness in having up to 30 rounds readily available, without a mag change or any other additional action.

I've never been boar hunting but we did raise pigs and I know the domestic and wild varieties can be pretty tough; 12 gauge slug to the head is what it took to take them out when we went out to slaughter the ones we raised on the farm.

As for hunting, it's always the sport hunters that piss us off; that and poachers on the my grandparents' land. Know your prey and know where to shoot it and do it on the first try. That and have the right tool for the job you're about. I imagine if I went boar hunting, I wouldn't be out with a firearm or use rounds that would cause "in and out" wounds or lack stopping power. I know I treat a 12 point buck different from a 6 point in what I aim for; you have to knock 'em back on their haunches and help them realize they're dead or you're in for a chase. Damn trophy hunters should've tracked the boar you were talking about down and finished it; nothing crueler than leaving a wounded animal out running around the brush/woods.

Talking about the right tool. Reminds me of when I was little and my cousins and I were playing in the woods with our pellet guns when we ran across a wild turkey. Idiots thought we could take it down with our pellet guns and started shooting at it. Long story short, it chased us nearly back to the house. That's when I learned how mean turkeys are...them and geese.

 agnosto wrote:

As for hunting, it's always the sport hunters that piss us off; that and poachers on the my grandparents' land. Know your prey and know where to shoot it and do it on the first try. That and have the right tool for the job you're about. I imagine if I went boar hunting, I wouldn't be out with a firearm or use rounds that would cause "in and out" wounds or lack stopping power. I know I treat a 12 point buck different from a 6 point in what I aim for; you have to knock 'em back on their haunches and help them realize they're dead or you're in for a chase. Damn trophy hunters should've tracked the boar you were talking about down and finished it; nothing crueler than leaving a wounded animal out running around the brush/woods.

I wouldn't call boar a "sport" hunt... And based on the apparent age of the boar my buddy killed, the most likely reason this thing had bullets lodged into it was from hikers/hunters trying to get away from it

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


I wouldn't call boar a "sport" hunt... And based on the apparent age of the boar my buddy killed, the most likely reason this thing had bullets lodged into it was from hikers/hunters trying to get away from it

Usually what I've seen is that people without the proper equipment will have the opportunity to take shots at something out of opportunity (i.e. geared for deer and spots something bigger); it's the sign of an inexperienced hunter. I don't know, may not have been the case for your boar because they are territorial and aggressive.

I know I ran like heck when that turkey was chasing me and if I could have reloaded my pellet gun and shot at it in the process, I would have.

 agnosto wrote:
I'm of the personal opinion that if you can't hit what you're shooting at with 15 rounds, you probably don't need a firearm to begin with. There's no real utility to having a larger than 5-round mag anyway; as others have said, you can't hunt with any more than that so why would you own one other than "I want one because making pew pew sounds and firing off 30+ rounds makes me feel all manly."

Believe it or not, even with training its still hard to hit what you are aiming at if its any amount of distance away.

Saying,

There's no real utility to having a larger than 5-round mag anyway

is a very ignorant statement.

Home defense alone makes a great reason for having mags of any size, the more the better. Also with the side benefit of being able to fire off 30 rounds at a time at a gun range.

 d-usa wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a Ford, actually. I buy American.

You mean Canadian. Or Mexican.

That's my problem with the whole "buy American" thing.

I will buy a product that is

A) Not gak. I don't care how American something is, if it's gak I won't buy it. Want me to spend my money at home then build something decent.
B) Manufactured in America. I will gladly buy "Foreign Company" brand if my money goes to American workers, American Warehouse, American Sales Folks, the offices of "Foreign Company - USA Corp" before my final tiny chunk makes it to "Foreign Company - Foreign HQ".

I don't care about USA Corp not getting their cut of the money after firing US workers and sending the rest of my money to a foreign country.

I can't exalt this one enough. Toyota has put thousands of Americans to work by building car plants here in the U.S. They helped GM reopen it's California NUMMI plant and partnered in it until they got stuck with having to pay several millions of dollars when GM pulled out and left them holding the bag:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI

Toyota got bashed for the plant closing, but this article and others like it have the truth of the situation:

http://www.lean.org/shook/DisplayObject.cfm?o=1425

 Grey Templar wrote:


Believe it or not, even with training its still hard to hit what you are aiming at if its any amount of distance away.

I consistently do so that means I'm either really special or you're just wanting to argue. As I don't think I'm special, I'll assume the latter and just leave it alone.

 Grey Templar wrote:
is a very ignorant statement.

Home defense alone makes a great reason for having mags of any size, the more the better. Also with the side benefit of being able to fire off 30 rounds at a time at a gun range.

You of course have the right to disagree with me but I fail to see how my statement is "ignorant". I've never heard of a home defense situation where someone had the opportunity to fire off 30 rounds. Let's ignore for a moment that wildly firing rounds in most situations results in collateral damage (neighbors?). I'll assume that you're a responsible gun owner and of sufficient experience and knowledge to know the 3-3-3 rule to gunfights (3 rounds, 3 seconds, 3 yards). Now, unless your name's Wyatt and you're hanging around such places as the OK Corral, you're not likely to buck FBI statistics of how home-invasions and 99.9% of shootings occur in the US. I could be wrong, you could be living in a cavern where you have sufficient line of sight to fire more than a few shots at these supposed home invaders. You might be in some special situation where you're using a rifle with a 30-round mag to defend your home when most people either shotguns or sidearms. Ripping rounds off through your wall may be great for you but the reality is that it never happens that way. Most gunplay happens within 10 feet.

As for the gun range. I think I adequately explained the rationale for my statement; whether you chose to read it and understand it is up to you. That said, 2, 15-round mags are would work just as well at the gun range as anywhere else and I'm completely unaware of any state that allows more than 5-round mags for hunting purposes. Like I said, it's a tool to me, not a toy; it could be different for you though.

No, I think you're trying to either argue because it's fun or you're trying to rationalize something for which there is no rationale. By all means disagree with me all you like but to me you appear just as ignorant as you portray me to be.

 Jihadin wrote:
I embraced the suck so I bought multiple weapons

I'd consider that more along the lines of ignoring the suck and taking in the cool

Primary reason for having mags larger than 15 rounds: You never know when you might need 16 rounds and changing a mag will get you killed. Trained law enforcement officers have a less than 20% hit ratio to rounds fired in any gunfight. Thats with rifles, pistols, whatever.
Just because it may seem impractical or far fetched to ever need something, doesn't mean that one day you might need it. And We all know, better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
I'm pretty sure guys in the following picture really didn't want to be stuck with 15 round mags for their weapons that used higher capacity mags.


I'm pretty sure that for large game hunting in Texas, rifles are limited to 5 rounds or something. Now, hog hunting....that's a different story. They are vermin here, and can be hunted and killed with any weapon you care.
Lots of ranchers and property owners using AR's with thermal sights and suppressors to kill hogs. Using those scary old 30+ round mags also.

Depending on the caliber of the rifle I wouldn't want to go after wild hogs with anything less then 20 rounds in a magazine. The pigs ain't playing games, and they move in groups, rapid fire .308 can stop your ass getting gored.

 agnosto wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:


I wouldn't call boar a "sport" hunt... And based on the apparent age of the boar my buddy killed, the most likely reason this thing had bullets lodged into it was from hikers/hunters trying to get away from it

Usually what I've seen is that people without the proper equipment will have the opportunity to take shots at something out of opportunity (i.e. geared for deer and spots something bigger); it's the sign of an inexperienced hunter. I don't know, may not have been the case for your boar because they are territorial and aggressive.

I know I ran like heck when that turkey was chasing me and if I could have reloaded my pellet gun and shot at it in the process, I would have.

Chased out a building in Iraq by feral chickens. Did not shoot any
Afghanistan, a Camel Spider leaped out from under a rock to bite my throat out. I put three 9mm rounds into it Only time I ever drew that weapon in combat. SoB had a napkin around its neck and was armed with a silver plated knife and fork. Screaming something about a "All you can Eat Buffet". It was a justified killing.

Edit
Spellling

 agnosto wrote:
You of course have the right to disagree with me but I fail to see how my statement is "ignorant". I've never heard of a home defense situation where someone had the opportunity to fire off 30 rounds. Let's ignore for a moment that wildly firing rounds in most situations results in collateral damage (neighbors?). I'll assume that you're a responsible gun owner and of sufficient experience and knowledge to know the 3-3-3 rule to gunfights (3 rounds, 3 seconds, 3 yards). Now, unless your name's Wyatt and you're hanging around such places as the OK Corral, you're not likely to buck FBI statistics of how home-invasions and 99.9% of shootings occur in the US. I could be wrong, you could be living in a cavern where you have sufficient line of sight to fire more than a few shots at these supposed home invaders. You might be in some special situation where you're using a rifle with a 30-round mag to defend your home when most people either shotguns or sidearms. Ripping rounds off through your wall may be great for you but the reality is that it never happens that way. Most gunplay happens within 10 feet.

Ah, another believer in the "getting shot once makes most people stop" myth.

Remember that Georgia woman who emptied all six rounds from her revolver into a home intruder at point blank range, including one shot to the head? What'd the intruder do, again? I believe he got up after the homeowner ran screaming from her house, got in his car, and drove off.

Hell, 50 Cent got shot nine times, and he's still rapping.

Guy named Kenneth Vaughan got shot over 20 times by a former neighbor, with a rifle, from under five feet away, in North Carolina. Never lost consciousness, never stopped trying to crawl away.

There's good ol' Angel Alvarez, who the NYPD shot 23 times before he finally stopped shooting back at them. He survived and wasn't incapacitated, by the way. He just decided to give up.

Incapacitation occurs from a central nervous system hit, nothing else. That's an extremely small target on a moving human. One bullet can kill you instantly. 25 can manage to not even incapacitate you.

You're not a good enough shot to know you'll only ever need X number of rounds in a given self defense situation. Neither am I. Neither is anybody. That's why no one who's ever been in a shooting has ever said, "Jesus, I wish I had less rounds."

 Seaward wrote:


Hell, 50 Cent got shot nine times, and he's still rapping.

Guy named Kenneth Vaughan got shot over 20 times by a former neighbor, with a rifle, from under five feet away, in North Carolina. Never lost consciousness, never stopped trying to crawl away.

Both of them are complete and utter pussies (sorry if that word is blocked or whatever...)... Roy Benavidez is the real deal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Benavidez

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a Ford, actually. I buy American.

You mean Canadian. Or Mexican.

Buy American. Buy a Honda!

 Frazzled wrote:
Mmm...sounds like a spammer to me.

Uh huh. So you're now claiming that correcting the false claim in the OP's article is spamming. That's just silly.

 Frazzled wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I have a Ford, actually. I buy American.

You mean Canadian. Or Mexican.

Buy American. Buy a Honda!

I do! Better price, better gas mileage and made in the USA!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
My Honda was made in the USA. It's also a better car then anything Ford's ever put out since the 80s.

I had a 95 Ford Probe that I drove for over 200,000 miles before the engine blew a casket.

Of course the Ford Probe was more Toyota than Ford...

 d-usa wrote:

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
My Honda was made in the USA. It's also a better car then anything Ford's ever put out since the 80s.

I had a 95 Ford Probe that I drove for over 200,000 miles before the engine blew a casket.

Of course the Ford Probe was more Toyota than Ford...

Gasket?
never mind "Blew a casket" make me think you were driving a hearse

I remove my 6 from my Eclipse Spyder and dropped a 4 in. Six is on blocks and sealed
84K on it and its a '04 so figure I can make it to 300K

My Prius is better than all of your puny cars.




(Worst photoshopped prius I could find)