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2014/07/21 13:52:36
Subject: Re:Yet another new necron player...
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Kabalite Conscript
Rochester, NY
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RyuTek wrote:
just out of interest would you recommend Flayed ones? or are they just too flimsy?
Wraiths are far superior.
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DR:90S+G+MB++IPw40k12#+D+A++/sWD-R+T(T)DM+
 Splinter Fleet Huggormr (2500 pts)
 Kabal of the Severed (1000 pts) |
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2014/07/21 14:22:19
Subject: Re:Yet another new necron player...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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That's fair enough, I just wondered if there were anything that came close to being useful (for model variation more than anything!)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/21 14:22:42
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2014/07/21 14:51:07
Subject: Yet another new necron player...
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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... Flayed Ones are the worst unit in the codex.
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2014/07/21 15:00:23
Subject: Re:Yet another new necron player...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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i figured as much, was just wondering how much worse they were (by the sounds of it a LOT!) just because i get bored easily haha! If i were to buy a box of them, it would just be fore painting not for the list.
Thanks guys 
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2014/07/21 17:10:26
Subject: Flayed One thoughts.
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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THIS is HILARIOUS!!! Everytime I see it, it's just... no...
The Worst units in the Necron Codex are Lychguard, and Heavy Destroyers. Like every unit in the Necron Codex, any of them can be used competitively when you build around them to support them. This is something that several other armies don't have, they have units, that no matter how they try to support them, just aren't worth the effort.
Flayed Ones is the most underrated unit in the Codex, because when people look at them and compare them to other units they are un-impressive. And it's a tragedy because the unit is fantastic. A PERFECT example of this was at the Australian Masters last year, or the year before I can't recall exactly. One Necron player Top 8'd(?) and he ran a unit of 12-14 FO's. All of the comments that followed were 'Why did he take those?' or 'He could've spent the points on Wraiths!'. Ummm, he top 8'd!!! THAT alone should be reason enough for people to at least re-take a look at them, but more importantly, where were the Wraith playing Necrons??
When you leave a Flayed One unit by itself, it'll perform just like any other Necron unit. It gives something for your opponent to deal with and it has RP. They don't seem all that scary because they only have a 4+ save and still strike at I2, which means pretty much everything in the game is going to kill them first. While I did like them better in the last Codex, they did give them 3 Attacks each. That's the exact same amount of attacks that a single Wraith has. They have the same Toughness, same Initiative. So the enemy is striking first against both of them, and they should be making the same amount of Armor saves. Wraiths appear superior because they have a 3i save, which is great to stop the Power Weapons, and heavy hitters. If you're meta is main MEQ armies, then take them. With Orks, Nids, Dark Eldar, Eldar, Tau, and IG. They're about as good as any other Jump Infantry in the game. Hell, I've even lost mine to just a unit of Nob Bikers after 2 rounds of combat.
Mobility. One advantage of the Wraiths, that I will concede is their Mobility. They are Jump Infantry, and can get around/respond to enemy threats better than Flayed Ones, and depending on your setup, Scarabs. This allows them to be effective starting on the table vs. aggressive enemies. Flayed Ones can be easily outmaneuvered, and are as fragile as Warriors. That's why they have both Deep Strike, and Infiltrate. Sure, Wraiths can Deep Strike too but since they have a good chance of getting into combat on Turn 2, it would be rare that you would. Flayed Ones probably won't be assaulting until Turn 3, and that's if they don't get charged first.
Supporting Flayed Ones
Flayed Ones start to SHINE when, like any other Necron unit, you support them with the proper units. Like any footslogging Warrior unit, you're going to want to run a minimum of 14 Flayed Ones. With 10, you're better off getting Warriors, because they'll be able to shoot, and make up for the lost turns for not being in an assault. Like any Warrior unit, put a Lord with an Orb in there, and that unit can take a beating. This causes problems, because the Lord doesn't have Deep Strike or Infiltrate, so prevents the unit from using either of these rules, which pushes them out of the running when you compare them to Warriors. If you're running 2 RC's, then you could put a Lord w/Orb and a Veiltek in the unit to make use of the Deep Strike, but you're really committing to the tactic and investing the points into it. There is one candidate that is a match that will allow the Flayed Ones to be able to use both Deep Strike and Infiltrate and let you decide every game. The Destroyer Lord.
I'm going to say this now, and I've had this disagreement often. DESTROYER LORDS IN UNITS OF WRAITHS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE PLACE FOR HIM AND IS THE MOST INEFFICIENT USE OF POINTS THAT A NECRON PLAYER CAN SPEND. Don't get me wrong, it's a powerful unit, boosted by the DLord in there, but mostly it's fun. For the cost of running this unit, you can run 2x5 units of Wraiths, have twice the coverage and do more damage! DLords are better to support Shooting units (what a shock in a pre-dominantly shooting army), and he again can make use of his speed to jump between units to provide it where it's most needed. Sure he can hop into the Wraiths at any given time, but they're probably going to be operating away from your army anyways.
Destroyer Lords in units of Flayed Ones are just begging to be used together. He can get an Orb, which the Wraiths can't benefit. If you've played the Warrior blob with an Orb, you'll already know how resilient the unit can be. He's Jump Infantry, so he won't prevent the FO's from using Deep Strike, and should you choose to Infiltrate the unit, he's fast enough to catch up to the unit and join them after Deployment. Flayed Ones with 'Preferred Enemy', are going to be a serious threat, and will make more use of the rule than Wraiths EVER will. You're typical loadout for a DLord and full unit of Wraiths is going to cost you ~400 pts depending on whether you take 2-3 Whip Coils. For that same cost, you can get 16 Flayed Ones, and still have points for the Orb.
There are 2 Special Characters that benefit Flayed Ones. Imotekh appears to be the best one because of his Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs. This isn't that great since the unit is random so your opponent will know before hand, and will be so huge that even 6" might be a bit restrictive. Still it's not bad if you want to put a small unit out there and have your opponent blow some shots into it instead of your shooting. Nemesor Zahndrekh though, is the perfect Character if you're going to support Flayed Ones. He is going to allow those FO's to Deep Strike the moment your opponent brings in any Reserves. The risk is that this is going to leave them bunched up before your opponent moves and shoots. The reward is that you get to charge on your turn, with 'Furious Charge'. And you can STILL put the DLord out front to 'Tank' for the unit if you find you like that tactic. THIS is something that your opponents can't ignore. The threat of 64 (if you take just the 16 compared above) S5, Preferred Enemy attacks is downright lethal. Im sure someone else might Mathhammer out the 24 Preferred Enemy attacks that a full unit of Wraiths would provide on the charge. Yeah, you're losing Rending, no argument there, but it's fair trade off, since each Wraith lost isn't coming back.
Other good supporting units, but to a lesser effect (and requiring more points) are Monoliths. They can portal in the Flayed Ones which will allow them to spread out making them less exposed to Blasts/Templates. They'll also allow Normal Lords/Crypteks to join the unit and you just bring them in through the Portal. Stormteks, since the short range of the Staff, and Lightning field will be put to use in a unit that's advancing. Tremorteks, will slow down units trying to get away and might prevent units from getting into an assault with the FO's so they can charge, would also work. Both Crypteks are better off in other units, and is only recommended if you bring the Monolith so you don't remove the DS/Inf option.
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Went kind of overboard, and if you read it, great. But Flayed Ones being the 'Worst' unit in the Codex? Far from it. They arguably got better, because now they can score objectives.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/21 17:13:17
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
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2014/07/21 17:33:46
Subject: Yet another new necron player...
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Man, look at all those words.
Main points where Wraiths with Destroyer Lords are better than Flayed Ones with Destroyer Lord.
• speed (Flayed Ones can deep strike? And then what, get shot at for a turn while their target moves further away?)
• Fearless
• when S6 Rending rerolls a 1 into a 6, good things happen. When a flayed one does it, not so impressive.
• 3++ trumps (potential) 4+ RP
• 
PS. you could put a Lord w/Orb and a Veiltek in the unit to make use of the Deep Strike,
I certainly hope you didn't mean you're trying to attach Royal Court members to units of Flayed Ones, as that would be cheating.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/21 18:15:04
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2014/07/21 17:40:23
Subject: Yet another new necron player...
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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 angelofvengeance wrote:
I don't see how Monoliths are sub par units lol. They're the one of the heaviest armoured vehicles in the game, it has an excellent primary weapon IMO.
Acanthrites are pretty useful too. I murder units with them all the time!
Uh, it's weak to melta, so can easily be killed, It's Particle Whip does gak against vehicles now, since AP3, plus Ordnance still blows. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correction, the game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/21 17:41:03
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty  |
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2014/07/21 18:20:46
Subject: Yet another new necron player...
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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 skoffs wrote:Main points where Wraiths with Destroyer Lords are better than Flayed Ones with Destroyer Lord.
• speed (Flayed Ones can deep strike? And then what, get shot at for a turn while their target moves further away?)
Which they can take, just as well as Wraiths. It's been my experience that this makes no difference regardless of which unit you run. I'm still baffled that you haven't run into any games this long where you still think that Wraiths are still THAT good. They are still something your opponent has to deal with. If they run, they're not shooting. If they shoot, then they will eventually catch up, just like any other foot slogging assaulting unit in the game.
Only an issue if you lose combat, and only then if you lose by 3 or more.
skoffs wrote:• when S6 Rending rerolls a 1 into a 6, good things happen. When a flayed one does it, not so impressive.
Congrats, you've bypassed the armor on one model that you failed to wound. It does ensure that Wraiths will wound. Won't make much of a difference to MEQ armies, horde armies, aren't going to care if it's rending or not.
Based on what? Either that link is crazy, but I can't even open it to see.
skoffs wrote:I certainly hope you didn't mean you're trying to attach Royal Court members to units of Flayed Ones, as that would be cheating.
Fair enough on this one. I haven't run Crypteks in a while, and when I do I only ever attach them to Warriors.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/07/21 18:25:56
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
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2014/07/22 08:44:41
Subject: Re:Yet another new necron player...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Eep, so this may have been a bit more inflammatory than i first thought!
Well, even if Flayed Ones aren't that bad, they probably wouldn't fit my list as i want to work around what I have. Seen as I would have to purchase a whole unit from scratch rather than bolster what I already have, I may give them a miss for now. But thank you for the information, I wont be afraid to try them in the future! At the end of the day, I am only playing friendlies, so there is room to experiment and generally play around with my units.
When i first read about them in the codex, i just saw them as the basic CC equivalent (I felt they would have fit the "Troops" bracket better than "Elites".) it turns out my assumption may not have been too far from the truth!
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2014/07/22 17:05:24
Subject: Re:Yet another new necron player...
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting you take them either.
There are myths about Necrons that continue to exist, and 'Flayed Ones are the worst' is right up there with 'Necrons suck in CC'. Just felt like you should've gotten the good and bad instead of just a 'No because I said so'.
I agree with your statement about them being Troops. I was hoping that they would be the 2nd Troops option when the rumors about this Codex started. That would've left Immortals alone, instead of what they are now.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/22 17:06:52
Current Armies
40k: 15k of Unplayable Necrons
(I miss 7th!)
30k: Imperial Fists
(project for 2025)
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2014/07/23 08:28:32
Subject: Re:Yet another new necron player...
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Ah fair enough,
Thanks for that, obviously getting all the story helps me learn!
It's just a shame that most of the cool looking models seem to either be rubbish for the cost, or they need the entire army built around them to be effective!
As always i really appreciate the help everyone, so thank you. If I ever get there I will let you know how i get on
At the moment my list is sitting at 1880 points (Not including wargear on overlord/barge or Dlord) ... which is a bit over the 1k limit I was having with my friends. I may try and see if they will double it or something!
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