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Hollismason wrote:
Never while I am setting up my army then cover my army each individual model with a small bag so that he doesn't know what he is fighting. Then when I declare shooting or assault I reveal it.


What you should do is start to set up your Dark Angels, then immediately throw down a flashbang when he recovers have your Tau on the table.

IMO that is a huge dick move. I would never play against someone who does this.

the rules used to have a note on secrecy section that stated you had to disclose what your had.

Can't seem to find that in 7th oddly lol...

however there is this

Write down the details of the models that make up your army, which units belong to which Detachments, which Detachment is your Primary Detachment, and which model is the army’s Warlord. This written record is known as your army’s force roster, and you must keep it to hand while you play the game. To keep things fair, you must always allow your opponent to read your force roster before a game if they wish to do so.

so a lot of what has been posted would go against the RAW of what you must do

it's also worth noting that RAW your roster must be written, thats not typed, or printed

also worth noting under picking armies your only allowed to contain citadel miniatures RAW

As discussed above, there are many ways to forge a collection of Citadel miniatures into an army ready to crush your enemies in games of Warhammer 40,000. This section focuses on the Battle-forged method. If you opt to choose an army using this method, your units are organised into Detachments and many gain special rules and in-game advantages.

which means you can't use non citadel miniatures (ironically this includes FW as they are not citadel miniatures, and are a separate company although owned by GW..lols)

blaktoof wrote:
As discussed above, there are many ways to forge a collection of Citadel miniatures into an army ready to crush your enemies in games of Warhammer 40,000. This section focuses on the Battle-forged method. If you opt to choose an army using this method, your units are organised into Detachments and many gain special rules and in-game advantages.

which means you can't use non citadel miniatures (ironically this includes FW as they are not citadel miniatures, and are a separate company although owned by GW..lols)

It's a very business-savvy thing for them to do. 20 years ago, no-one would bat an eye if you brought 3rd-party minis to a game. Nowadays, you get people on Dakka arguing about whether 3rd party models are "legal" - GW has been incredibly successful in disseminating this idea that only Citadel models are acceptable! They're even trying to do that with terrain now - reading the 7th edition rulebook's terrain section, it's like an advertisement for Citadel terrain.

I agree, out of all the editions this.one seems to be the.most buymore.stuff from only.us edition

Blaktoof - no, FW is not a separate company. They are a department, nothing more

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Blaktoof - no, FW is not a separate company. They are a department, nothing more

True, however, do they produce Citadel Miniatures?

I don't think they'd have to tell you until deployment, Even if they're deep striking or in reserves the units would have to be set aside.

So, if you deploy second, can you then wait for whoever placed to pick the perfect counter and positioning?

You each slap down an army list face down before you even open a container.

Both "reveal": all is well.

Guy I knew waited till he saw what you had and then pawed through his various lists and pulled out the one that looked best.

Above method avoids all that.

Doubt any player is going to want to continue a game where their opponent waits till they have deployed before taking 10 minutes to decide which List they will be using....

Write down the details of the models that make up your army, which units belong to which Detachments, which Detachment is your Primary Detachment, and which model is the army’s Warlord. This written record is known as your army’s force roster, and you must keep it to hand while you play the game. To keep things fair, you must always allow your opponent to read your force roster before a game if they wish to do so.

This settles everything. If your opponent asks to see your army list before the game starts, you have to show it to him.

 40k Wargamer wrote:

Write down the details of the models that make up your army, which units belong to which Detachments, which Detachment is your Primary Detachment, and which model is the army’s Warlord. This written record is known as your army’s force roster, and you must keep it to hand while you play the game. To keep things fair, you must always allow your opponent to read your force roster before a game if they wish to do so.

This settles everything. If your opponent asks to see your army list before the game starts, you have to show it to him.

That's fine and everything, as (I think) it's apparent a game does not begin until the first army is deployed.
However, do note the you do not actually choose your army, let alone the list, until you've decided on (or rolled for) a mission.

I'm not seeing a place where you have to have it in a language that the opponent can understand!(random over the top nic-picking/sarcasm)

At my local FLGS its simply polite just to ask what army the other player is playing and points then make list and go from there. there isn't really a meta to the place since everyone just plays what they want and is a very relaxed non-WAAC place so you can't "think ahead" and take a "best" list.

Edit: but sadly this isn't the case everywhere. After reading everything else I feel in a more meta-minded envrioment that both players make their list and reveal at the same time would work the best in a vacuum. IMO of course

We usually let each other know in adavance or just turn up with a sets point list army..... both have their advantages.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

It's a very business-savvy thing for them to do. 20 years ago, no-one would bat an eye if you brought 3rd-party minis to a game. Nowadays, you get people on Dakka arguing about whether 3rd party models are "legal" - GW has been incredibly successful in disseminating this idea that only Citadel models are acceptable! They're even trying to do that with terrain now - reading the 7th edition rulebook's terrain section, it's like an advertisement for Citadel terrain.

I can't recall a time when you could go to the local GW store and game with miniatures that were not fully or partly (conversion) GW models. It's always been the rule and there is nothing new in that. The competitive scene also has also always generally stuck to a more rigid set of rules regarding what is and isn't allowed conversion wise (though regional differences and scale of events often changes this pattern - smaller scale local affairs are generally more allowing).

As for the terrain aspect, 20 years ago GW didn't really make much terrain and were more interested in selling models or terrain making components; these days they've more official terrain of their own so it makes sense to plug that (its also a good way for new people to get hold of good looking terrain to play with).

 Overread wrote:
I can't recall a time when you could go to the local GW store and game with miniatures that were not fully or partly (conversion) GW models. It's always been the rule and there is nothing new in that.

Obviously GW stores are going to impose those sorts of rules, to promote sales. But we've never had any GW stores in my neck of the woods, so we don't really give a gak about using "officially sanctioned" toy soldiers.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I can't recall a time when you could go to the local GW store and game with miniatures that were not fully or partly (conversion) GW models. It's always been the rule and there is nothing new in that.

Obviously GW stores are going to impose those sorts of rules, to promote sales. But we've never had any GW stores in my neck of the woods, so we don't really give a gak about using "officially sanctioned" toy soldiers.

Aye though I suspect if your local area gets more competitive focused they might at least impose some restrictions. I also tend to find that larger groups or ones where someone has abused conversions for their own gain tend to be a bit more strict (mostly its just avoiding people trying to cheat via conversions).

But yes independent clubs are free to make their own rules and always have done and indeed at most clubs if a conversion is really good it often gets allowed. Heck someone plays with a converted Warmachine army somewhere in the world which is made up of ponies.

Is it wrong that I laughed at all the 'butt-sore' people in the comments over that Pony Army?

JinxDragon wrote:
Is it wrong that I laughed at all the 'butt-sore' people in the comments over that Pony Army?

Sometimes you gotta have a laugh - though I heard some people commenting that they were angry it was allowed because it might mean next year everyone would bring pony armies

When I go to play someone, I only ask how many points they want to play, and if necessary, modify my army list to match the decided point value.

I do understand why you wouldn't tell your opponent what army you were bringing, as some people would tool their army specifically to beat yours. For me, I build TAC army lists, so I don't care what my opponent brings. Most of the time, I don't think I play against anyone who tools their army against me. Sometimes people will ask me what army I have and I'll tell them, and on the very rare occasion, they will tool their army to beat me. The last time that happened, my opponent threw in the towel on turn 2 -- a tooled list won't help you if you're a poor player, and this person was.