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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I just wish Chaos had some good formations, or some interesting ones at least beyond the helbrutes.

They will get one.

...after Necrons.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I just wish Chaos had some good formations, or some interesting ones at least beyond the helbrutes.

The helbrute formations are pretty dang nice. Compare that to the largely mediocre space marines ones. Sure the loyalist marines have a lot of formations, but most are just kind of meh.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I just wish Chaos had some good formations, or some interesting ones at least beyond the helbrutes.

The helbrute formations are pretty dang nice. Compare that to the largely mediocre space marines ones. Sure the loyalist marines have a lot of formations, but most are just kind of meh.

Space Marine's have a codex beyond Cultists and Heldrakes, so they benefit from having Formations for units that don't suck:

I mean for the god's sake we have a Formation that gives Chosen AND THEY SHALL KNOW NO FEAR. It literally just makes them worse space marines!

The idea of paying to win is just as much total nonsense as the idea that you need formations. It's absolutely nothing of the sort. You don't even remotely need them to win a game of 40k (just go to the battle report section for thousands of examples of people winning without them), and formations aren't really any more or less balanced than the rest of the stuff GW puts out.

And even if you lived in an insane world where winning games of toy soldiers with dice was literally the only thing that mattered, still, pay to win? Be'Lakor costs $4. Four friggin dollars, after you paid hundreds for the rules and the minis. I think if you can afford a demon army in the first place, you can find a few bucks for an extra unit worth of rules.

 Sigvatr wrote:
They will get one.
...after Necrons.

I actually like the 'Silver Tide' and the High Court of Damnos ones.

 Multimoog wrote:
Formations made the new Ork codex neutered so we could put the rules elsewhere and charge for them, as well as s supliment you need to be competitive over vanilla orks..

fixed that for you

 Yonan wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
so if some people can get more enjoyment out of the game from it then how can it be a bad thing? Yes, they're overpriced

You give two answers to your own question:
1. They're overpriced. The scale by which they're overpriced is bad even for GW. Dataslates offer so little for comparatively so much.
2. Only some people have them - you get a similar problem to video games with the piecemeal sale of additional power in the form of microtransactions. No longer is buying the codex enough to play an army at full effectiveness, you need to buy supplements, dataslates and white dwarfs to have everything your army can field - let alone possible allies or unbound options. It results in the real and observable problem of paid extra content fixing lacklustre codex content as with the tyranids.
These add up to:
3. People leaving in droves and you having no one to play your $400 worth of BRB, codices, dataslates, supplements and white dwarfs with, let alone the price of your miniatures. If GW doesn't settle on a monetization system that's acceptable for their players, people will (and have been) leaving which only decreases the value of the rules further as it becomes increasingly difficult to find games.

Would you argue that being able to buy a dataslate to increase the power of your troops guns by 20% would be a good thing because "some people (the people that buy it) got more enjoyment out of it"? That's a simplified version of the problem with dataslates, and an accurate representation of where this business model went with video games that use it. Pay to win is not a good game model for gamers, it's only good for the companies that use it.

1.) Over pricing doesn't mean less fun. I can understand it can be discouraging for people who want them, but can't afford them. But that in itself doesn't make something 'unfun'. How much they offer to money value doesn't really fit into the argument of 'fun'.
2.) Again, this doesn't mean it's unfun, or necessarily bad. Some people don't want to buy them. Supplements are NOT required to play and have a good time, just your basic Codex is. People who have a little extra income, or would like to gain new features for their army are the ones who buy it, because they WANT to have MORE fun with their models. I'm a little bored of hearing the argument that the supplements are the 'other half' of the Codex, when they AREN'T. I hear the Tyrannid arguement too often, and its old. As an Ork player, our Codex is decent. Solid enough. I've been satisfied with it thus far. The Waaagh! book wasn't a purchase I HAD to make in order to make my Codex playable. I bought it because I wanted more ways to play with my models...and I've been having FUN doing so. I couldn't run a Green Tide before. I could, but I didn't get any bonuses for running my favorite army type. Now I can. Green Tide doesn't make Orks top tier because I have access to the formation. It's just a FUN formation. I was glad to gain access to it, and the other formatons/relics.
3.) Another boring, repeated argument. Maybe they are leaving in your area, but my 40k group is still going strong, I can still get pick up games any time I need, and I get to go to the monthly Apoc games. Perhaps our group is less bothered due to us already owning everything we need, so being priced out isn't really an issue. And don't get me wrong, I hate that the price of the game really hinders newcommers. It did for me at first as well, but once I started getting into the hobby, I had too much fun to stop. So, I agree prices can be too high...but again...does not stop fun from happening once people start playing. (Typically).

I'm unsure where your final arguement comes from. Do you have specific examples of GW making dataslates for more powerful weapons but only if you buy the dataslate? From what I've seen, they only release dataslates for new models that are outside the Codex, not new gear. And if they did, then those SHOULD be FAQ'd into the Codex, that I'll agree with. But unless Gamesworkshop has done this in the past, I don't see any way you can 'pay to win' in this game is if you happen to have more money than your opponent to buy models their army can't take down.