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same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 17:00:03
2014/08/01 17:04:53
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
People are stupid because they let The Socialist Alternative tell them what to be afraid of.
It's a gak political group with gak ideals, sorry after reading their posters for a year and a half and having a friend go to their 40 member (out of 5 million) meetings, I just cannot take them seriously.
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
Hush now... aren't you preparing for the Ebola outbreak here in the states?
<--- just kidding d... (although, where's your bunker? The zombies are coming! )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 17:38:28
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2014/08/01 17:42:01
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2014/08/01 17:49:29
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
Fully loaded its several thousand tons potentially....
Yes that at speed I'm a sure car brake if you put your protest in wrong spot. Only take several miles!
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
Hush now... aren't you preparing for the Ebola outbreak here in the states?
<--- just kidding d... (although, where's your bunker? The zombies are coming! )
yeah... plenty of "freak out" to go around on both sides Id say.
I mean, we already had pig, bird, cow diseases, but those are soooo passe,
exploding trains, stalin Jr's commie-nazi-robo-goon squads are whats in fashion now.
I have already engaged my patented Easysauce survival contingency plan,
Im up on my orbital space platform right, just waiting for the asteroid I pulled into a collision course with earth to hit, so that I can get back down to my underground bunker and start repopulating earth with all the audry hepburn clones I have in the works.
feth... i dont know why I even waited this long
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 18:26:19
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
2014/08/01 20:34:01
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
I am going to ruin your joke by pointing it out, without remorse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 20:34:19
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
2014/08/01 20:36:32
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
Manchu - "But so what? The Bible also says the flood destroyed the world. You only need an allegorical boat to tackle an allegorical flood."
Shespits "Anything i see with YOLO has half naked eleventeen year olds Girls. And of course booze and drugs and more half naked elventeen yearolds Girls. O how i wish to YOLO again!"
Rubiksnoob "Next you'll say driving a stick with a Scandinavian supermodel on your lap while ripping a bong impairs your driving. And you know what, I'M NOT GOING TO STOP, YOU FILTHY COMMUNIST"
same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
To tell the truth, I am complaining about the people protesting the trains because, as I said earlier, I see them as the same type of people that protested the Keystone pipeline, even when it's proven pipelines are safer than trains. It wouldn't surprise me to see that several were the same people.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/01 21:37:52
same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
To tell the truth, I am complaining about the people protesting the trains because, as I said earlier, I see them as the same type of people that protested the Keystone pipeline, even when it's proven pipelines are safer than trains. It wouldn't surprise me to see that several were the same people.
Considering that the people who has the keystone pipe in their backyard in Canada were complaining about the fact that the soil and water sources was becoming flammable, not to mention the effects of the drilling in the oil sands, I'm pretty sure when your Tap Water is able to be set fires you start growing a bit concerned.
2014/08/01 23:18:35
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
I hear living near power lines can be bad for one health to
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same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
To tell the truth, I am complaining about the people protesting the trains because, as I said earlier, I see them as the same type of people that protested the Keystone pipeline, even when it's proven pipelines are safer than trains. It wouldn't surprise me to see that several were the same people.
But rail transport is proven 27x safer than pipelines.
same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
To tell the truth, I am complaining about the people protesting the trains because, as I said earlier, I see them as the same type of people that protested the Keystone pipeline, even when it's proven pipelines are safer than trains. It wouldn't surprise me to see that several were the same people.
Considering that the people who has the keystone pipe in their backyard in Canada were complaining about the fact that the soil and water sources was becoming flammable, not to mention the effects of the drilling in the oil sands, I'm pretty sure when your Tap Water is able to be set fires you start growing a bit concerned.
Do you know how many pipelines there are carrying oil? If they leaked as much as the media would have us believe, the U.S. would be awash in a sea of oil.
I guess all of the supposed trouble with the Keystone didn't phase Canada in deciding to build a similar line to the west coast.
same way its "reasonable" to be afraid a meteorite will hit you in the head,
That's a nonsensical analogy. You have no potential control over where a meteor falls, but you do have potential control over where a train passes through, if it passes through, and how it is operated. .
and yet there are ways to mitigate the risk of metorites, lightning, and so on,.
granted, I could have used other examples like underground gas lines, petrol stations underground containers, naturally occuring natural gas deposits, and so on, but the point still stands.
my point, its not about controlling the event, its about peoples dispropotionant reactions to the risk, which are based on lack of information, misinformation, and so on.
To be fair, a lot of the people that are complaining about people protesting are also the same people that have spend the last few months going "DEADLY TRAINS EVERYWHERE IF WE DON'T BUILD THIS PIPELINE! THEY WILL KILL YOUR CHILDREN, YOUR TOWNS, DEADLY TRAINS WILL KILL ALL OF YOU!!!!!11!!!!!!1!"
Now people are stupid because they are afraid of what they were told to be afraid of.
To tell the truth, I am complaining about the people protesting the trains because, as I said earlier, I see them as the same type of people that protested the Keystone pipeline, even when it's proven pipelines are safer than trains. It wouldn't surprise me to see that several were the same people.
Considering that the people who has the keystone pipe in their backyard in Canada were complaining about the fact that the soil and water sources was becoming flammable, not to mention the effects of the drilling in the oil sands, I'm pretty sure when your Tap Water is able to be set fires you start growing a bit concerned.
Do you know how many pipelines there are carrying oil? If they leaked as much as the media would have us believe, the U.S. would be awash in a sea of oil.
I guess all of the supposed trouble with the Keystone didn't phase Canada in deciding to build a similar line to the west coast.
I always figured it was because of how much Stephan Harper needed to add something to his legacy that ended up 'good', not to mention they pretty much ignored Alberta when it came down to the decision.
Though honestly the thing about the Keystone pipe is that I don't understand why we need it, we have plenty of crude the issue is with the lack of Refineries as our crude oil rate increased to a 'pipeline' point.
Also I wasn't talking about the pipe itself leaking oil, but the Albertan Oil Sands itself being pumped causing issues.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 23:33:13
I'm just going to leave this thread because it's already the same joke that the other thread was.
Because I pointed statistic after statistic about oil spills, pipeline injuries, and other accidents that pipelines have been involved in. And during the entire time people were standing there ignoring every single thing while going "blah blah blah truly the pipelines are safe blah blah blah nothing bad ever happens blah blah blah not a spill anywhere blah blah blah". I was like trying to shine a flashlight out of an information black home.
So time to unsubscribe and leave this thread to the people who already know everything there is to know even if it is wrong.
d-usa wrote: I'm just going to leave this thread because it's already the same joke that the other thread was.
Because I pointed statistic after statistic about oil spills, pipeline injuries, and other accidents that pipelines have been involved in. And during the entire time people were standing there ignoring every single thing while going "blah blah blah truly the pipelines are safe blah blah blah nothing bad ever happens blah blah blah not a spill anywhere blah blah blah". I was like trying to shine a flashlight out of an information black home.
So time to unsubscribe and leave this thread to the people who already know everything there is to know even if it is wrong.
In all fairness, I've worked in the oil industry 20 years...
Relapse: "There are really no oil spills, pipelines are safe."
d-usa: "Here is a giant list of oil spills that you pretend didn't happen,"
Relapse: "In all fairness, I've worked in the oil industry 20 years."
But if that is how it works then consider every one of your past and future ObamaCare arguments invalid because I declare that I have worked in the health care industry for 14 years...
Surely all of these things have risks, but some are more riskier than others?
And it's really just that?
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Relapse: "There are really no oil spills, pipelines are safe."
d-usa: "Here is a giant list of oil spills that you pretend didn't happen,"
Relapse: "In all fairness, I've worked in the oil industry 20 years."
But if that is how it works then consider every one of your past and future ObamaCare arguments invalid because I declare that I have worked in the health care industry for 14 years...
I never denied oil spills, I know pipelines are safer than trains, though.
The article doesn't specify if the injuries or deaths related to trucks carrying petroleum differ significantly from trucks carrying anything else, or whether or not petroleum was specifically involved in any given number of accidents. And also doesn't address the root issue, which is NIMBY.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 03:36:59
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2014/08/02 04:59:54
Subject: Re:I guess a pipeline is the way to go then
Reading this thread just............*nevermind. If you can't say something nice then anything pithy to say will be so evident that to remark upon them will be boorish.
The reality is that the problem is not with pipelines, trains and trucks.
The problem is people. Now, I'm not talking about trained professionals. I'm talking about the ignorant donkey-caves that manage to get themselves into a position to affect the transportation of hazardous materials.
I don't think that anyone with a lick of common sense will argue against having better than adequate staffing of well trained and paid work crews to insure safe transportation.
Also, think those same common sense folk would much rather that the hazardous material crossed paths with as few untrained, reckless and ignorant people as possible.
What does this mean? It means that the more untrained people put into a position to affect the hazardous material while it is in transit, The more unsafe it is.
It also means that the fewer the trained crews and safety response teams are, the more unsafe the material is in transit.
So we should be looking for for a solution that gives the least access to the general public while giving the best oversight by trained work and safety crews.
The options-
1)Trucks are innately the unsafest means of transportation in that it puts the hazardous material in a position to cross paths with the most untrained/ignorant people.
This danger is somewhat offset by the smaller volume of hazardous materials per incident. Still numbers show that more people are injured by this method than the other two.)
2)Pipelines are, innately the safest means due to pretty much avoiding all contact with the general public.
This safety is negatively impacted by a combination of them being owned by corporate entities whose directors may be for all intent and purposes an untrained idiot who will make decisions based upon profit margin vs safety.
Also, regulation in this area is both strong and weak. Strong in enforcement but up until recently weak in penalties. The BP gulf thing has changed this a bit.
3)Trains seem to be the best middle-ground until one realizes that they have all of the same problems with corporate ownership. The regulations and penalties are a bit stronger but likely not enough to offset the extra danger of people who race trains.
Also, while trains seem to offer the best middle ground in volume moved vs amount released in an accident, there is the hitch of how much our rail system would have to expand in order to meet the future volume needs of our country.
Imo,
I invested in REGI after they bought LS9.
In a few years it might pay off. Until then ...let them build the damn pipeline for the jobs and then demand rigorous safety measures and regular oversight
Later,
ff
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 06:11:02
Officially elevated by St. God of Yams to the rank of Scholar of the Church of the Children of the Eternal Turtle Pie at 11:42:36 PM 05/01/09
If they are too stupid to live, why make them?
In the immortal words of Socrates, I drank what??!
Considering that the people who has the keystone pipe in their backyard in Canada were complaining about the fact that the soil and water sources was becoming flammable, not to mention the effects of the drilling in the oil sands, I'm pretty sure when your Tap Water is able to be set fires you start growing a bit concerned.
that sounds like a lot of made up stuff... do you have some kind of citation for that?
Considering that the people who has the keystone pipe in their backyard in Canada were complaining about the fact that the soil and water sources was becoming flammable, not to mention the effects of the drilling in the oil sands, I'm pretty sure when your Tap Water is able to be set fires you start growing a bit concerned.
that sounds like a lot of made up stuff... do you have some kind of citation for that?
Relapse wrote: You're not telling me anything I don't already know. The amusement I find here is that these are the same type of people that were protesting the Keystone.
I find it unfair that if I were to use this sort of argument in regards to conservatives, that 'the same sort of people that protest abortion clinics are the same sort that ask for smaller government' I would be told that I'm being stupid, because it's obviously not the same people doing it (and have been, on more than one occasion), but in most threads critical of the left you see comments like this, where 'well they were the same sort of people protesting X' so it's okay for me to call them hypocritical.
Could we stop doing this please?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/02 14:01:49
The problem is people. Now, I'm not talking about trained professionals. I'm talking about the ignorant donkey-caves that manage to get themselves into a position to affect the transportation of hazardous materials.
The woman who was arrested got herself into a position to affect the transportation of a hazardous material by standing (and potentially sitting) on the tracks. Not a lot of managing going on there.
I don't think that anyone with a lick of common sense will argue against having better than adequate staffing of well trained and paid work crews to insure safe transportation.
Yet one rail company is doing precisely that, because "better" often means "more cost effective".
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
Relapse wrote: You're not telling me anything I don't already know. The amusement I find here is that these are the same type of people that were protesting the Keystone.
I find it unfair that if I were to use this sort of argument in regards to conservatives, that 'the same sort of people that protest abortion clinics are the same sort that ask for smaller government' I would be told that I'm being stupid, because it's obviously not the same people doing it (and have been, on more than one occasion), but in most threads critical of the left you see comments like this, where 'well they were the same sort of people protesting X' so it's okay for me to call them hypocritical.
Could we stop doing this please?
To start with, I will agree with your point about some conservatives, just as this is my point about some of the enviornmentalists.
To back my statement, these three, among several others taken from the same news source:
Jess Spear mentioned protesting pipelines. My point is proven. Same news source, same person speaking against pipelines and trains.
I particularly like this statement of hers in the third link,
"The protests against the Keystone XL pipeline, and the civil disobedience taking place to stop the construction of the pipeline’s southern portion, are highlighting a key demand from concerned people: Keep the fossil fuels in the ground. Activists know that allowing the pipeline to be built is a huge setback to stopping climate change. On the West Coast, environmental activists are mobilizing communities to reject the proposal to build the largest export terminal in North America in Bellingham Bay, Washington."
It's good to know she and these people walk everywhere, live under the open sky and dig holes into snowbanks so they can live in them for the the winter. I imagine they must forage in the woods for food and weave clothing from spider silk.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/02 19:08:06
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