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I swear I am a glutton for punishment because I always come to these threads to try to convince people that this entire topic is opinion and each opinion is as valid as the next.
Most people believe GW prices are just fine. This is true for me as it is for many others. This is a luxury, as most hobbies are.
A very vocal minority don't and believe the prices are reasonable. And swear they are representative of the whole. Most often I believe this has more to do with their own difficulties affording the product than the actual price itself. If they could go out and buy anything whenever they wanted, they would possibly complain less. (some people just like to complain)
The other frequent complaint amongst the minority is that prices have gone up over the years.
They have. Most everything has. It is a complaint and a valid reason for an individual to choose not to buy, but it is not representative of any fact other than they cost more.
The idea that other companies are cheaper is also a fallacy.
Price per model is generally the same if not higher, plus the average competitors kits are not as good a value either.
The most often example is Privateer Press.
A box of Invictors is $45 msrp. For 10 models in 3 maybe 4 poses. (which they attempt to hide by rotating the same sculpts) This is the same through most of their range.
GW kits give you 10 models plus option, plus extra bits for a similar price point. Often $5+
PP Collossals/gargantuan are an average of $20 more that the large kits from GW and tend to be smaller.
Another fallacy claimed to be proof that it is too expensive is that people can/do buy it for a discount. All this shows is the desire for the product and that other vendors are willing to attempt to make up profit on volume.
The fact that they can accomplish this shows that the item is highly desirable.
Cost of entry to play is too high. (which for some it may be but it is not proof).. Another Fallacy. Play lower points and the entry cost gets lower and lower.
The ideas that other companies do 'X' and GW doesn't is not valid proof either because turning the table shows the same general idea. I.e GW does 'X' so the other company should.
The biggest challenge to overcome is that your like/dislike is just as valid as everyone elses. It does not prove anything.
Your purchase or lack of shows your stance that is all.
It's especially amusing when you look account for inflation, that 129.1m in 2003 is equivalent to ~167m today in 2014 (and that 2004 revenue of 151.8m is roughly equal to ~192m in 2014 dollars). Their revenue has been stubbornly flat for years in absolute terms (some ups, some downs, all around ~130m or so) but in real terms, once adjusted for inflation, their revenues are dropping drastically.
So if you couple the fact that their value of the revenues has been dropping, coupled with major price increases over this same time period, this would then seem to indicate that the volume of units sold is down, which would imply something is wrong here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/03 01:32:08
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Y'know, I'm inclined to just follow along and say 'No! They're not acceptable prices!' with all the righteous indignation of a disgruntled consumer...but then I'd be lying because in the end I still end up buying at MSRP so on some level I must find the price for whatever it is I'm getting acceptable enough to pay it.
That being said the prices are pretty crazy, and on a kit-by-kit basis there are some things I would never buy because of price--but, unfortunately for my wallet, those kits seem to be the great minority.
However, I would love prices to drop and I would probably buy a lot more kits (and probably spend even more money than I do now) if the prices weren't as high.
Likan Wolfsheim wrote: Y'know, I'm inclined to just follow along and say 'No! They're not acceptable prices!' with all the righteous indignation of a disgruntled consumer...but then I'd be lying because in the end I still end up buying at MSRP so on some level I must find the price for whatever it is I'm getting acceptable enough to pay it.
In this context "acceptable" is not a black and white thing. I do still occasionally buy GW stuff (mostly from discounters, but I have been known to buy from my local GW at full retail).
However, I buy things far less frequently than I would like and I often find myself not buying kits I like because of the price. So does that mean I find the price acceptable or unacceptable? I'm buying... but I'm not buying as much as I could buy or want to buy.
Yes and no. I think they should make the core rules available for free online with minimal fluff and pictures. Then have the nicer Rulebook and Codexes available with full fluff and artwork for sale. Rules supplements would nor be available online free. Got to pay for those.
Then one troop unit in every army (tac squad, guardians, one ofthe gaunt varieties, etc) should sell for about 2$ per model. Also one basic HQ should sell for about $7-10. Starter box should include a vehicle/monstrous creature (one of the less popular ones for that army) priced at about a 25% discount.
For about $120 anyone can start a new army and start playing the game. GW should then lower the price of many other units some, and keep the premium units where they are now.
New stuff/sculpts should come out at premium prices for a year or two as suggested above before having the price drop to be in line with the rest of the range. People with money will buy the high priced stuff and even people without much will dabble in the premium prices if they can get involved in the hobby with value prices at the start.
This model I think would draw people in and keep them longer while still extracting high payments from those who will pay.
They are expensive, but much cheaper than my other hobbies. I can easily burn $50-75 in a couple hours at the range. I spend $60 on a video game and play it for maybe a month before I'm bored of it. I can go through $300 in brakes and $1,000 in tires in 2 days at the race track or road rally. I'll still be using that $75 land raider 5 years from now. I'm not comparing it to other tabletop war game hobbies because I don't play any. I'm comparing to cost per hour of enjoyment I get from my other various hobbies because that's the most relevant comparison to see if I'm personally getting my money's worth (i.e. value) from GW's products. In that sense, I am just fine with their prices. Hell, I spent $1,200 on a 50 yard line ticket to Michigan vs Alabama in the kickoff classic at Cowboy's stadium, plus travel and hotel for 3.5 hours of enjoyment. GW could raise prices another 50% and it would still be my cheap hobby.
2014/08/03 03:00:29
Subject: Re:Do you think GW prices are acceptable?
edbradders wrote: I buy all my GW stuff from eBay now. The only things I will buy direct from GW are paints and maybe brushes but I'm thinking of looking elsewhere for these as the quality is not up to par anymore.
Paying $6 for a GW brush is crazy. Paying $4 for a 14 ml pot is insane.
Any art supply store will have quality brushes at 1/3rd the price. They will also have high pigment acrylics at $4 for 60 ml.
I can only imagine that they're being driven by inexorable calls for short-term gains. Price-hikes that help in the next quarter, but hurt long-term growth and retention. The rules writing nowadays seems to make it fairly clear that there is not a lot of game-testing going on. The amount of rules disputes per game is completely draining the fun from most games. So it's very hard to justify the prices on their books, especially since they're not introducing much new content. And the stuff they are introducing is just more rules inflation in the form of dataslates, formations, and ally codices (Tempestus, Knights, etc).
Their model prices are crazy. They've moved most things over to plastics, but the plastics now cost more than the metals used to cost. $35 for 10 guardsmen is crazy. $56 for a wyvern is crazy. Smaller 3rd party producers are selling high quality products at a fraction of the cost. Dreamforge is so cheap, I'm buying models and then later deciding if I'm going to use them on the table. Every time I put my samurai rough riders on the table people tell me that they look awesome. They cost me 1/3rd what GW rough riders would have cost (before they got pulled).
I really want to support the hobby and my local store. But when I walk in and have to pay $10 for two tiny pots of nuln oil and averland sunset, I walk right out and just make my own by watering down budget-priced acrylic paint. It costs me 1/8th as much and the effects are pretty much indistinguishable from the official shades.
"Bringer of death, speak your name, For you are my life, and the foe's death." - Litany of the Lasgun
2500 points
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points
2014/08/03 03:20:53
Subject: Re:Do you think GW prices are acceptable?
They might be a little bit high but since its a luxury hobby it is what it is, honestly if you look at entry cost for a full 1500 point army with the rule book and codexes its around the same as getting a new gaming console / pc or if you hunt picking up a new gun with enough ammo to practice with and use during a season.
picking up a xbox one / ps4 before games is going to cost you more than that (even with picking up a special character and heavy support slot) and with two battle forces and an hq you can normally put together a playable army at 1000-1500 points.
Honestly I pick up most of my stuff on ebay these days and I spend around $25 with shipping a month and after a simple green bath I normally end up with 1-2 retail kits (best deal so far was 4 carnifexes for $62 with shipping). Even before ebay I was picking up a regular $35 kit a month and it wasn't that big of a deal ... alot of people buying 40k don't want to wait 6 months to build and paint their army they want it all up front, it can take a while to pick up a 2k force that is formidable on the table and if your playing 40k on a budget you have to realize that. I've spent way less on my 4 armies (three at 1500 points, one I don't even want to figure up the total points) so far than on my xbox 360 with all my games combined.
Just my opinion.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/03 03:22:33
Told that on Dakka Discussion, but I'm really tired of hearing these blatant lies about GW not being so expensive. What kind of hobbies are you in? Polo? Golf? Aerobatics?
Some time ago, I happened to see what really happens when you make beginners believe this kind of BS about GW prices being "not so bad".
It was a mommy who has spend almost 500€ ($680) and genuinely believed it'll make her kids happy. Let's see what you really get with that kind of money...
Spoiler:
Rulebook + 2 army books = 136€ (starter box : 2 factions, out of 15+)
1 bataillon for each kid = 210-220€
1 Citadel Basecoat = 13 €
1 Citadel Paint Set + 2 extra colors per kid + 1 extra brush = 55€ (you don't want 1 brush for two kids?)
Glues + Flock + PVA brush = 29€
450€. Add some template/dices, maybe that mold line remover, and that's it.
What do the kids get? Two next to useless "armies". That's just sad. Especially when the kids discover the cold truth: nobody will ever want to play against them.
People barely play 1k pts games, and their "armies" are half that size.
I don't know about you, your income, family and background, but in my book, 250€/$350 per kid would be a freaking HUGE christmas.
Truth is, she could have bought them a PS3 and a 26" TV for less than that. Yup, a television and a DVD/BR player that doubles as a gaming console would cost her less than these two pathetic forces of plastic toy soldiers.
Yeah, sure, there's definitely no problem with GW's prices. Actually, I do agree with people when I hear things about the insanity of PP/CB minis prices. But they just can get away with it, mind you, even with insanely priced minis, their games are still far less expensive than GW's ones.
Spoiler:
For the same amount of money, I can give two kids very nice sets of guitar, bass or drums, with pedals, and amps that would be powerful enough to piss rock all the neighborhood and bang all the girls. Or buy them two standard-sized armies of plastic toy soldiers, with books they have to replace every two years and let them stay virgin 'til they're 25+ years old.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/03 04:42:07
GW prices are jump-up-and-slap-your-grandma insane.
You know, Ascalam, every time I looked in the "what are you doing today" thread, you were always only doing GW stuff. Then it seemed overnight you did a serious double take and now find GW wicked expensive. GW should seriously be worried when a big fan such as yourself decides they've had enough.
Not quite overnight. I have a serious painting/modelling backlog, bought when the costs were less bat-gak insane.' A saner man than I would have stopped years ago.
I've bought very few GW models the last year or two, and am strongly considering paring down my collection severely. The price rises have been pushing my tolerance for years, now.
I love 40K, though 7th doesn't exactly ring my bells. I will still continue to play the game. I doubt i'll be buying another GW model for anything other than a modelling/painting project again.
I DO want to get a few of the WE treemen models, just for the painting joy, but the prices have finally gone beyond my tolerance.
It's actually cheaper to build a drone or a combat robot (my other hobby) than put together a small army from GW these days. The models semi- literally cost more than it would cost to cast them in solid silver. There is a point where you just can't justify buying any more.
I will still be working on my existing models (whichever i choose to keep) for years yet, and I've been getting into WM/H and back into Necromunda these past few months also
The Viletide: Daemons of Nurgle/Deathguard: 7400 pts
Disclples of the Dragon - Ad Mech - about 2000 pts GSC - about 2000 Pts
Rhulic Mercs - um...many...
Circle Oroboros - 300 Pts or so
Menoth - 300+ pts
2014/08/03 05:33:52
Subject: Re:Do you think GW prices are acceptable?
As riveting as this this topic is, it isn't really suited for 40K general discussion. I would move it to Dakka Discussions, but we already have an almost identical topic going. Let's direct conversation there please.
609th Kharkovian 2000pts
Deathwatch 2000pts
Sick Marines 1500pts
Spikey Marines 2000pts
1500 points
1250 points
1000 points 
