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 GKTiberius wrote:
Saying it is too boring to play against a deep striking NSF with NDK's and you would like to see some variety with other units basically is asking someone to play against you with sub par units so that your game can be more interesting to you.

So, in your group (or wherever you play), does no one ever use any units that are even remotely sub-par?

I've recently started Tyranids, and as most of you guys know, they are not very competitive. Yes there are some competitive units in the book, mostly Dakka Flyrants and Dakkafexen, but do I spam those? No. That is because I am not a dick like most GK players.

From what you guys are saying, I should only use these two units as everything else is sub par? I bet that most of you would complain about this and wouldn't find it enjoyable to go against, but it doesn't matter so long as its viable to me right?

SGTPozy wrote:
I've recently started Tyranids, and as most of you guys know, they are not very competitive. Yes there are some competitive units in the book, mostly Dakka Flyrants and Dakkafexen, but do I spam those? No. That is because I am not a dick like most GK players.

From what you guys are saying, I should only use these two units as everything else is sub par? I bet that most of you would complain about this and wouldn't find it enjoyable to go against, but it doesn't matter so long as its viable to me right?

Aha hit the nail on the head there! I salute you

 total0 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
I've recently started Tyranids, and as most of you guys know, they are not very competitive. Yes there are some competitive units in the book, mostly Dakka Flyrants and Dakkafexen, but do I spam those? No. That is because I am not a dick like most GK players.

From what you guys are saying, I should only use these two units as everything else is sub par? I bet that most of you would complain about this and wouldn't find it enjoyable to go against, but it doesn't matter so long as its viable to me right?

Aha hit the nail on the head there! I salute you

Some people don't enjoy playing sub par units. Different people find different things fun. Who are you to say they're wrong?
What I will say is wrong is that GW made some units auto-takes and some units auto-excluded. That's the real issue here.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 total0 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
I've recently started Tyranids, and as most of you guys know, they are not very competitive. Yes there are some competitive units in the book, mostly Dakka Flyrants and Dakkafexen, but do I spam those? No. That is because I am not a dick like most GK players.

From what you guys are saying, I should only use these two units as everything else is sub par? I bet that most of you would complain about this and wouldn't find it enjoyable to go against, but it doesn't matter so long as its viable to me right?

Aha hit the nail on the head there! I salute you

Some people don't enjoy playing sub par units. Different people find different things fun. Who are you to say they're wrong?
What I will say is wrong is that GW made some units auto-takes and some units auto-excluded. That's the real issue here.

What I'm saying is that basically all GK net-listers would hate to play my list, yet I have to be okay with their list just because they're GK.

SGTPozy wrote:
I've recently started Tyranids, and as most of you guys know, they are not very competitive. Yes there are some competitive units in the book, mostly Dakka Flyrants and Dakkafexen, but do I spam those? No. That is because I am not a dick like most GK players.

From what you guys are saying, I should only use these two units as everything else is sub par? I bet that most of you would complain about this and wouldn't find it enjoyable to go against, but it doesn't matter so long as its viable to me right?

Except for one crucial difference. Nid players have access to metric craptons of stuff. Even if a lot of that is overcosted/subpar, you guys at least have variety.

Purely from a collecting standpoint, having Zoanthropes, Lictors, Genestealers, Raveners, Warriors, Fexes, Tyrants, TGuard, Exocrines, Hormagaunts, Termagants, Crones, Gargoyles, Trygons, Tervigons, "Mr. Tickles" Venomthropes etc. make for a beautiful and varied army.

Grey Knights, apart from the iconic NDK, have power armored dudes wielding stormbolters and either 1 heavy weapon or 2 (Elites) or 4 (Heavy Support) or 1 + lightning rods (Fast Attack) and stormbolter wielding terminators, which each model being able to choose between 3 melee weapons. And a very limited assortment of Space Marine vehicles (Dread, Rhino, Razorback, Land Raider and Stormraven).

From a collector's standpoint, especially if you already have a Space Marine army, there is no justification to field a Grey Knight army larger than ...say... 1250 points. However, 3500 points of Tyranids still dont get boring.

So we either build competitive lists, or we essentially throw money at GW to get more-of-the-same boxes of power armored guys that add very little to our collection.

 Sir Arun wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
I've recently started Tyranids, and as most of you guys know, they are not very competitive. Yes there are some competitive units in the book, mostly Dakka Flyrants and Dakkafexen, but do I spam those? No. That is because I am not a dick like most GK players.

From what you guys are saying, I should only use these two units as everything else is sub par? I bet that most of you would complain about this and wouldn't find it enjoyable to go against, but it doesn't matter so long as its viable to me right?

Except for one crucial difference. Nid players have access to metric craptons of stuff. Even if a lot of that is overcosted/subpar, you guys at least have variety.

Purely from a collecting standpoint, having Zoanthropes, Lictors, Genestealers, Raveners, Warriors, Fexes, Tyrants, TGuard, Exocrines, Hormagaunts, Termagants, Crones, Gargoyles, Trygons, Tervigons, "Mr. Tickles" Venomthropes etc. make for a beautiful and varied army.

Grey Knights, apart from the iconic NDK, have power armored dudes wielding stormbolters and either 1 heavy weapon or 2 (Elites) or 4 (Heavy Support) or 1 + lightning rods (Fast Attack) and stormbolter wielding terminators, which each model being able to choose between 3 melee weapons. And a very limited assortment of Space Marine vehicles (Dread, Rhino, Razorback, Land Raider and Stormraven).

From a collector's standpoint, especially if you already have a Space Marine army, there is no justification to field a Grey Knight army larger than ...say... 1250 points. However, 3500 points of Tyranids still dont get boring.

So we either build competitive lists, or we essentially throw money at GW to get more-of-the-same boxes of power armored guys that add very little to our collection.

If you want variety, play a different army. There's nothing stopping people from using purgation squads, strike squads, dreads etc, however people don't as they are not competitive, hence my point is still valid.
Anyway, you bundled everything together in your army because they are similar... Wow. Take Space Marines as an example, all they have are power armoured guys, but some have jump packs, some have cool ammo and others carry heavy weapons. They also have some vehicles, mostly rhino chassis though, and then scouts. If I strip out all of the detail like you have, then there are only three options in the most diverse codex (really, there are two as scouts are just slightly less armoured marines).

Well I guess we've gone past actual discussion, and are just making blanket statements/insults about people who play X army now.

You wanna see mono-build? I'm a GK player getting ready for a Highlander BAO tournament (There can be only one... of any given non-troop unit). If you want to load-up on HS items you literally end up with a Dreadknight, a Landraider, and a Stormraven... if you want viable units. :-p

In all seriousness though. I do see the most popular mono-build being effective, which is why it is in rotation right now. Essentially the only variation you're likely to see is...

1. Purifiers + delivery system (Rhino, Wolf ally Drop-Pod, etc...) versus Interceptors
2. Draigo/Paladin Star, or not.

That said, while our current "Mono-build" seems strong on the backs of great items like the DK, or our Nemesis formation, it is incredibly limited during Maelstrom or other objective-holding efforts. Without allies for cheap bodies, Knights have real problems in competitive objective-holding.

I'd also suggest, and others have... GK almost feel like a delicious "companion" army. I've almost never seen an army so suited to Allies, and the real diversity in my current, and future list-building increasingly seems like it is about what I will bring WITH my Knights on a given day. Not very fluffy for an elite, mythical, and insular fighting force... but its kinda how things are shaking out.

Pozy, you used a poor analogy. Look at weapon loadout options, and list out difference between each unit. Do the same with SM. Don't try again.

In general, what is the point of this thread? All I'm seeing from total0 is that he wants to call anyone who plays GK stupid by having others do it for him, and then just saying "yep, you got it exactly."

Dark Eldar are facing the same problem now, an entire army nerfed to very few viable options and almost being considered as allies for Eldar and little else. I dont play DE, but feel bad for the players who are now shelving their Wych-cult armies

SGTPozy wrote:
What I'm saying is that basically all GK net-listers would hate to play my list, yet I have to be okay with their list just because they're GK.

That's a poor line of reasoning. Did the GK player ask you to deliberately weaken your list? If yes, then yeah I guess you would have a point, but if you chose to deliberately weaken your list, then why do you think he owes you anything?

I'd say you have as much of an obligation to be okay with his optimized list as he has an obligation to be okay with your watered-down one. If you don't want to play against such a list, then communicate that to him and ask if he'll oblige you. Simply expecting him to not take the units that he wants to take is silly though.

I find it pretty funny that people are complaining about a GK list build that's be around since 5th, yet was never considered good until 7th made it the only good build. That's like kicking the slow kid because everyone lapped him and he's now in front.

SJ

Sorry that you find it boring when I use my favorite models. Tell you what, if you use units that you hate, I'll use the units that I hate!

Then I am positive that we will both have a fun game!

Rihgu wrote:
Sorry that you find it boring when I use my favorite models. Tell you what, if you use units that you hate, I'll use the units that I hate!

Then I am positive that we will both have a fun game!

I think you should gain Hatred special rule in this case.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I find it pretty funny that people are complaining about a GK list build that's be around since 5th, yet was never considered good until 7th made it the only good build. That's like kicking the slow kid because everyone lapped him and he's now in front.

SJ

Yes, but not everyone used that list back then did they? All that I'm saying is that it is boring, just like in 6th, CC armies found it boring playing against gunline Tau, so I changed my list as I want both players to have fun. Was I so wrong to consider my opponent's enjoyment?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
What I'm saying is that basically all GK net-listers would hate to play my list, yet I have to be okay with their list just because they're GK.

That's a poor line of reasoning. Did the GK player ask you to deliberately weaken your list? If yes, then yeah I guess you would have a point, but if you chose to deliberately weaken your list, then why do you think he owes you anything?

I'd say you have as much of an obligation to be okay with his optimized list as he has an obligation to be okay with your watered-down one. If you don't want to play against such a list, then communicate that to him and ask if he'll oblige you. Simply expecting him to not take the units that he wants to take is silly though.

Did I ask them to weaken their list? No. I played against their list and the game sucked. Also, the gaming environment is NOT a competitive one except for when people decide to before hand.

This debate feels weird...

If we're talking in the context of a casual, for-fun, game... do you guys not talk things over with your opponent first?

Last night before going to the hobby-shop, I sent a message to my opponent for the night... "Fun lists, or competitive lists?" He responded... I built accordingly, and all was fun.

Sometimes it feels like everyone wants to partake in this "social" hobby, and then not be responsible for actually interacting with another human-being. :-p