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Eh, I only take platoons if I really want conscripts. Vanilla guardsmen aren't cheap enough compared to vets and I don't like shooty blobs. A PCS with 4 snipers is a good substitute SWS.

Also, astropath is BS4, and mine has a great habit of perils and dying horribly in the same shot that he takes down some nightmarish beast, including a blood thirster.

Actually yeah the Platoon Command Squad would be a nice place to get some sniper rifles in with that Veteran ballistics skill. That is especially useful as I plan to utilize at least one platoon in my forces, it'll give my Command Squad a purpose other than shouting orders.

Man I already got my Command Squad assembled... guess I'll pick up more guardsmen later to equip with Sniper Rifles.

-Praise The Emperor-

 TheSilo wrote:

Also, astropath is BS4, and mine has a great habit of perils and dying horribly in the same shot that he takes down some nightmarish beast, including a blood thirster.

Huh, so he does. In that case, I might start including one.

 Cothonian wrote:
Actually yeah the Platoon Command Squad would be a nice place to get some sniper rifles in with that Veteran ballistics skill.

PCS have BS3. They're only guardsmen - not veterans.

It's CCSs that get veterans (with BS4).

Oops my bad on the ballistic skill.

Hello all, recently gained a rather large boost to my Imperial Guard forces and decided it would probably be a good idea to look over options in the codex again... and this lead to me getting some ideas.

As of now I've been using Veteran troops like special forces, riding Chimeras to attack single, high value targets, meanwhile my standard guardsmen hold objectives, absorb fire, and just generally bog down the enemy. However it has since occurred to me that an un-upgraded Veteran squad only costs 60 points - only ten more than a standard 50 point Guard squad. For those ten points I get primarily get the BS 4, meaning a lot more shots hit. Rather than putting more standard Guardsmen on the field, could it possibly be worth it to put down more Veteran Squads equipped with only one or two special weapons? (Veteran squads coming out to 70-75 points a squad, buffed by orders, the idea being that they could provide massed infantry with far more accurate fire.)

The above could be a silly idea, tell me if it is.


annnd I have one more question, relating to both load out and tactics. One thing I've considered is giving Veteran Squads a heavy weapon (such as Heavy Bolter, Auto Cannon, or Missile Launcher), two relatively inexpensive Special Weapons, and Forward Sentries. This setup would be designed to take a relatively close objective and sit on it, defending it and providing mid-range supporting fire to other advancing units. So viable idea or a waste of points using Veterans to sit on an objective? EDIT: Just occurred to me that this is suspiciously similar to my first post hehe, so I guess the focus of my question is on the tactics aspect, as the load out aspect has been discussed fairly thoroughly.

It seems to me with Snipers your goal should be picking Sgt Equivalents out of blobs. This gives you a better chance to break them in melee or hurt them with some kind of ability that targets leadership. The AP2 on wounding doesn't necessarily make them a MC slayer, it's there to have a chance of taking out a 2+ model that's also squad leader.

Scions can take advantage of the Sniper USR against MCs because their weapons are already AP3. 6 shots will put about 2W on a Wraithknight or a grounded Flyrant. But fishing for a 6 to defeat 2+ is not worthwhile with low numbers of attacks. It takes 18 Rending shots to put 2W on an MC, so you are better off tagging the poor guy with Misfortune and then unloading with an entire Infantry platoon.

Fun fact: 90 Lasgun shots with Prescience and Misfortune will put ~3 wounds on any FMC, meanIng a Flyrant will probably splat and die when it fails its grounding test. I don't have a blob to try this with but I really hope one of you does. Bonus points for quoting the Starship Troopers movie while you're bug hunting.

 Cothonian wrote:
Rather than putting more standard Guardsmen on the field, could it possibly be worth it to put down more Veteran Squads equipped with only one or two special weapons?

Not really. BS 4 is 33% more firepower for 20% more points, and you lose the ability to blob up and maximize orders (getting FRFSRF on multiple squads more than makes up for the lower BS). Vets exist to carry melta or plasma, if you're not using them for that then you're paying too many points for wasted potential.

So viable idea or a waste of points using Veterans to sit on an objective?

Waste of points. Cheap special weapons aren't going to kill anything, which means you just wasted way too may points on a squad which can't do anything besides camp on an objective. And a 10-man squad of guardsmen dies when anything charges it or when your opponent decides to put non-trivial shooting into it. Meanwhile a conscript blob can go to ground behind an ADL for a 2+ cover save with a lot more bodies to kill before your opponent can take the objective.

Vets are the cheapest single troop avaliable for ig. If you want them to be just backfield pointholders and you need as few points spent in backfield infantry as possible, it's a good idea to just give them sniper rifles, one heavy weapon, cloaks and call it a day.

However, it's not the most point-effective way of running vets imo. They can be very handy with 3 special weapons and probably a mbomb.

 Paradigm wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Do you guys always put your veterans in transports, or do you ever footslog some or all of them?

Footslog most of the time, occasionally I'lll run a single plasma-bus, but not so much with the new codex. Grenadies does wonders for keeping them alive, as does Camo Cloaks if you have an ADL. And since you can get both for what I used to happily pay just for one or the other, that's tempting sometimes as well.

I think you can only have a single doctrine on a veteran squad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:
Only if you can actually hit with the shriek. It's 50% and you probably won't get a second chance.

Astropath has BS4, so it's 66,6..%.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSilo wrote:

Also, astropath is BS4, and mine has a great habit of perils and dying horribly in the same shot that he takes down some nightmarish beast, including a blood thirster.

Who cares? Mission accomplished. He's there to die killing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cothonian wrote:
Actually yeah the Platoon Command Squad would be a nice place to get some sniper rifles in with that Veteran ballistics skill. That is especially useful as I plan to utilize at least one platoon in my forces, it'll give my Command Squad a purpose other than shouting orders.

CCS has lot of utility, but not sniper rifles. Ratlings have BS4, a sniper rifle costs 10pts there. CCS costs 60, so your 4 sniper rifle will cost you 64 pts, with ratlings that's 40. And you could have used your CCS so much better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cothonian wrote:

As of now I've been using Veteran troops like special forces, riding Chimeras to attack single, high value targets, meanwhile my standard guardsmen hold objectives, absorb fire, and just generally bog down the enemy. However it has since occurred to me that an un-upgraded Veteran squad only costs 60 points - only ten more than a standard 50 point Guard squad. For those ten points I get primarily get the BS 4, meaning a lot more shots hit. Rather than putting more standard Guardsmen on the field, could it possibly be worth it to put down more Veteran Squads equipped with only one or two special weapons? (Veteran squads coming out to 70-75 points a squad, buffed by orders, the idea being that they could provide massed infantry with far more accurate fire.)

You can just try out the possibilities. Imo for special weapons your best bet is plasma and melta gun, and sometimes flamers. With heavy weapons Lascannon, maybe autocannon. The others aren't too impressive. You can try out Veterans, single IS, blobbed IS, Heavy weapon squads, Sepcial weapon squads, and see what's working, what does not, and why. With blobs you'll pay a lot for a single HWT, it will have durability, bad BS(3), but will be easier (i.e. cheaper) to buff (single order, single prescience, single high LD IC etc.). With veterans you'll have better BS 3 special weapon options, doctrines and fragility. With HWS you'll get most HWT per points, low LD, extreme fragility, but more targets. 3LC costs 105 points, you can put multiple HWS with a single platoons, some will survive, and can shoot back. Also if you are looking for a platform for LC, consider Vendetta. It counters low BS with twin-link, is flying, so has access to skyfire, and more durable than regular AV12, also can transport a CCS/PCS with goodies (CCS with astrpath with 4 special weapons, ordering themselves to feth gak up). SWS is cheap, low BS, and so insignificant that your opponent may just ignore it. If not, he shot down a 40pts unit. Good for him.

So before assembling proxy and try out all your options, and see what are the strength and weakness of each.

Like with many of these "why not?" questions, the sniper veterans are not preferred because two other unit types are better used to field sniper rifles.
Ratlings and special weapons squads are the go-to for these I find, you results may vary when if you really want the heavy weapon mixed in.

Plasma vets were the old standard for taking out marines and opportunity fire for vehicles.
Grenadiers was usually added to survive the gets hot rule and at least an armor save when the marines shoot back if you were silly enough to dismount.
Throwing them in a vehicle is necessary not just for survival but few units will willingly get into range so you need to go to them.

Melta vets is becoming a choice build, less shooting however so vehicles are primary targets and marines secondary.
Grenadiers is not as necessary but again gives some improved survivability.
The vehicle is even more necessary to get close enough for the wonderful half range shots.

These two builds with lascannon or autocannon or neither depending on points and my tactics at the time are my main ones.

I found for objective grabs the 5-man deep-strike Scions kitted out in a similar way depending on the target preferred is the "better" means to get somewhere in a hurry and deliver some pain. Luckily elite choices do not have many competing units.

Mobility has a little more emphasis with the 7th edition rules and if you must camp on an objective, survivability becomes a greater question than anything else.