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1) that saying is very true for foot guard! One of my regular opponents runs blood angels and he has learnt the hard way that getting too close to one my blobs with his assault marines is a fast track way to being on the wrong end of mass bayonet charge!

On a side note, I have found that charging an opponents close combat units with a blob is very effective. Many dedicated close combat squads rely on getting bonuses from charging to maximise there damage output and taking that away from them allows a foot guard player to grind them down over 2-3 rounds of combat.

2) You make a very good point about powerfists, our should be way cheaper!

3) Spamming Infantry is ok as a Guard player is fine because it ties in so closely to our fluff and is one of the most traditional tactics that we guard commanders can employ.

4) Hull points + sentinels = useless sentinels ):

Personally, since using foot guard I have had much more fun with IG in general and it caused one of the funniest reactions from one of my Opponents. The guy was a renowned power player and was running a screamer star. I managed to grind him down to about 4 models over 6 long bloody turns and won the game on Secondaries. At the end of the game he was pretty angry and and exclaimed " THOSE F*****G CONSCRIPTS ARE OVER POWERED. THEY SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED" I couldnt help but laugh that this guy thought a 3pt model was broken after he had brought a unit with a 2++ rerollable save!

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
1) that saying is very true for foot guard! One of my regular opponents runs blood angels and he has learnt the hard way that getting too close to one my blobs with his assault marines is a fast track way to being on the wrong end of mass bayonet charge!

I'd have liked to see his face the first time your guardsmen charged his assault marines.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

On a side note, I have found that charging an opponents close combat units with a blob is very effective. Many dedicated close combat squads rely on getting bonuses from charging to maximise there damage output and taking that away from them allows a foot guard player to grind them down over 2-3 rounds of combat.

That's a good point, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

As a question though, how do you decide between shooting an enemy unit at point-blank (possibly with FRFSRF), and charging it?

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

3) Spamming Infantry is ok as a Guard player is fine because it ties in so closely to our fluff and is one of the most traditional tactics that we guard commanders can employ.

I think it's also quite nice in that we're not rendering any of their weapons useless (as opposed to an army of tanks, which would invalidate most small-arms fire). Also, whoever wins, they get to kill a ton of models. Who doesn't enjoy that?

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Personally, since using foot guard I have had much more fun with IG in general and it caused one of the funniest reactions from one of my Opponents. The guy was a renowned power player and was running a screamer star. I managed to grind him down to about 4 models over 6 long bloody turns and won the game on Secondaries. At the end of the game he was pretty angry and and exclaimed " THOSE F*****G CONSCRIPTS ARE OVER POWERED. THEY SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED" I couldnt help but laugh that this guy thought a 3pt model was broken after he had brought a unit with a 2++ rerollable save!

Lol. Yeah, that's pretty bad. Nice going on your win though.

I've also heard someone say that Creed is one of the top-10 most OP units in the game.

1) It was a mix of shock and disbelief

2) Generally speaking charge with conscripts as they will hit most things in close combat on a 4+ but with shooting they hit on a 5+ and they also don't have any heavy weapons which will be wasted charging. But at the end of the day it really depends on the situation. However don't be afraid to get a big charge off even if it might not cause the most damage because not only is it awesome and fluffy but it will also wrong foot your opponent and make him more cautious. It all about the mind games!

3) Exactly. Although it does make their anti tank next to useless and special anti tank weapons tend to be quite pricey in points.

4) Thanks. He was also the player that used 4 hell drakes and 3 flying deamon princes for a while. Never used Creed, in fact I generally dont use named characters in 7th. In the old codex I always ran Al'rhem to outflank a 80 man platoon and Chenkov to have 75 never ending conscripts Ahhh Those were the days!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have just checked my codex and rule book and here is my argument for allowing the priest to use the commissars Ld when testing for battle Hymns

1) In the codex it says the priest can take a Ld test in each fight sub phase he is locked in combat and if the test is successful choose one of the following effects. (Page 34)

2) In the rule book it states that "if a unit has to take a Ld test and it includes models with different Ld always use the highest Ld from among them" (Page 13)

3) On page 100 of the rule book it states "Remember, that a character that has joined a unit follows all the normal rules for being part of a unit"

4) On page 166 it states "While an Independent Character is part of a unit he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes"

Therefore while the priest is an independent character, when he joins a unit he is treated as being part of that unit (like a regular squad member). As he is part of the unit when he has to take a Ld test he MUST use the highest Ld. If he and a Lord Commissar are part of the same unit they both count as members of that squad and therefor he MUST use the highest Ld in that unit which would be the Commissars!

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

2) Generally speaking charge with conscripts as they will hit most things in close combat on a 4+ but with shooting they hit on a 5+ and they also don't have any heavy weapons which will be wasted charging. But at the end of the day it really depends on the situation. However don't be afraid to get a big charge off even if it might not cause the most damage because not only is it awesome and fluffy but it will also wrong foot your opponent and make him more cautious. It all about the mind games!

That's a good point about conscripts.

Out of interest, when you use them, what character do you support them with - a Priest or a Commissar?

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

4) Thanks. He was also the player that used 4 hell drakes and 3 flying deamon princes for a while. Never used Creed, in fact I generally dont use named characters in 7th. In the old codex I always ran Al'rhem to outflank a 80 man platoon and Chenkov to have 75 never ending conscripts Ahhh Those were the days!

I miss Marbo.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

I have just checked my codex and rule book and here is my argument for allowing the priest to use the commissars Ld when testing for battle Hymns

1) In the codex it says the priest can take a Ld test in each fight sub phase he is locked in combat and if the test is successful choose one of the following effects. (Page 34)

2) In the rule book it states that "if a unit has to take a Ld test and it includes models with different Ld always use the highest Ld from among them" (Page 13)

3) On page 100 of the rule book it states "Remember, that a character that has joined a unit follows all the normal rules for being part of a unit"

4) On page 166 it states "While an Independent Character is part of a unit he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes"

Therefore while the priest is an independent character, when he joins a unit he is treated as being part of that unit (like a regular squad member). As he is part of the unit when he has to take a Ld test he MUST use the highest Ld. If he and a Lord Commissar are part of the same unit they both count as members of that squad and therefor he MUST use the highest Ld in that unit which would be the Commissars!

Interesting. I'll run that one by my group and see if they accept it.

As a question, do you do the same for Perils of the Warp Ld tests - or is the wording different?

1) In low points games I use just a commissar in a blob of 40 conscripts. For 145 points I get 41 unbreakable men. I then use them as a source of mobile cover or just charge them at a big stompy unit. I have lost count of the number of times that an opponents wraith knights has spent the whole game bitch slapping conscripts and doing no real damage.

In high points games I generally use both a priest and a commissar for better Ld for hymns and orders, which allows them to quite good at both shooting (first rank fire) and close combat (re roll wound hymn).

2) I am hoping they bring back all the special characters via dataslate. At least then we get to use them again even if you have to pay money for the rules.

3) I never use psykers but I don't think it matters anyway as the moment a primaris rolls perils the commissar executes them (as per the "its for your own good" rule). Therefor I don't think the psyker would even get the chance to roll on the perils table.

Edit: Just checked the rule book and Ld isnt even a factor in Perils of the warp. If you roll any double 6s when trying to generate a enough warp charge for a power then you just roll a D6 and consult the perils table. No Ld required so the like I said before (although in a slightly different context ) the Lord Commissars improved Ld wouldnt even matter !

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
1) In low points games I use just a commissar in a blob of 40 conscripts. For 145 points I get 41 unbreakable men. I then use them as a source of mobile cover or just charge them at a big stompy unit. I have lost count of the number of times that an opponents wraith knights has spent the whole game bitch slapping conscripts and doing no real damage.

In high points games I generally use both a priest and a commissar for better Ld for hymns and orders, which allows them to quite good at both shooting (first rank fire) and close combat (re roll wound hymn).

Interesting. Would you not rather have that priest in one of your infantry squads?

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

2) I am hoping they bring back all the special characters via dataslate. At least then we get to use them again even if you have to pay money for the rules.

Well, they'd have to make models for them first.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

3) I never use psykers but I don't think it matters anyway as the moment a primaris rolls perils the commissar executes them (as per the "its for your own good" rule). Therefor I don't think the psyker would even get the chance to roll on the perils table.

Annoyingly, the psyker is executed after he rolls on the table (which, to me, seems to go against the point of executing him).

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Edit: Just checked the rule book and Ld isnt even a factor in Perils of the warp. If you roll any double 6s when trying to generate a enough warp charge for a power then you just roll a D6 and consult the perils table. No Ld required so the like I said before (although in a slightly different context ) the Lord Commissars improved Ld wouldnt even matter !

But, most of the results on that d6 Perils table require the psyker to pass a Ld test - or else something unpleasant happens to him.

1) Yes and no. I put priests in the squads I expect to see combat and my regular infantry squads can take heavy weapons so I want to keep them shooting as long a possible. So if I put the priests in with the infantry squads thats going to encourage me to get them in close combat so the heavy weapons will be wasted, or I waste the priests by shooting and staying back.

Now in my current list I have 3 priests in 3 dakka blobs and 2 commissars in 2 Anti-Tank blobs and no conscripts. This is because I would rather sacrifice my dakka blobs to keep my anti tank going as long as possible and the commissars give the AT blobs better Ld for orders. Combine this with vox network and this makes sure with my important AT orders (bring it down and fire on my target) are always going to be issued. I don't need conscripts in this list as I normally use them to fill the ranks out but with 241 men I dont really NEED any more bodies (also I start reaching the bottom of the barrel in terms of my model collection after 260 men!)

2) they used to have the models for some of them. Like Captain Al'Rahem and his awesome sword

3) Yeah that is silly. Totally defeats the point of executing him ): .

4) Hmm. I will check my rule book when I get home.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
1) Yes and no. I put priests in the squads I expect to see combat and my regular infantry squads can take heavy weapons so I want to keep them shooting as long a possible. So if I put the priests in with the infantry squads thats going to encourage me to get them in close combat so the heavy weapons will be wasted, or I waste the priests by shooting and staying back.

Ah, I see. That makes sense.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Now in my current list I have 3 priests in 3 dakka blobs and 2 commissars in 2 Anti-Tank blobs and no conscripts. This is because I would rather sacrifice my dakka blobs to keep my anti tank going as long as possible and the commissars give the AT blobs better Ld for orders. Combine this with vox network and this makes sure with my important AT orders (bring it down and fire on my target) are always going to be issued.

Very good point. I'd also forgot about the Ld of Commissars for Orders - so nice catch there.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
I don't need conscripts in this list as I normally use them to fill the ranks out but with 241 men I dont really NEED any more bodies (also I start reaching the bottom of the barrel in terms of my model collection after 260 men!)

Lol, true. I imagine you'd start to run out of table-space too.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

2) they used to have the models for some of them. Like Captain Al'Rahem and his awesome sword

Really? I thought they only removed the ones that didn't have models. Huh.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

3) Yeah that is silly. Totally defeats the point of executing him ):

It is rather annoying that we end up with the worst of both worlds - our psyker dies either way, but the Perils result can still hurt his unit or drain your power dice.

1) Yeah I have run lists with 270ish men in them and I always started with a blob of the board and when I had to deploy it there wasnt always room to get it where I needed it. In the end I decided that 5 blobs was enough as I got to have all my guns shooting from turn 1 (:

2) They had models for both Commander Chenkov (image 1) and Captain Al'rahem (image 2) ): . I was very sad they got rid of them as it completely undid my ultimate Infantry list I had spent years brewing to perfection! Atleast I got use it in its final form before it was taken away from me

3) That because in the guard we have to fight our wars like real men :p not with any eldar style trickery

4) Just checked the rule book and I can see no reason why a psyker can not use the highest Ld for the perils stuff. It follows the same line of thinking as I laid out before. It also makes sense fluff wise, If a warlock starts suffering from a perils test then the farseer is going to intervene and try and help guide them with her superior knowledge and psychic power. Likewise a primaris psyker is going to try his best not to kill the guardsmen around him, even more so if being encouraged by the sight of the commissars bolt pistol in his face!

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

2) They had models for both Commander Chenkov (image 1) and Captain Al'rahem (image 2) ): . I was very sad they got rid of them as it completely undid my ultimate Infantry list I had spent years brewing to perfection! Atleast I got use it in its final form before it was taken away from me

You have my sympathies.

I wonder why GW dropped those characters then? I thought it was only dropping stuff it didn't have models for - because of all this CHS nonsense.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

3) That because in the guard we have to fight our wars like real men :p not with any eldar style trickery

Heh, true.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

4) Just checked the rule book and I can see no reason why a psyker can not use the highest Ld for the perils stuff. It follows the same line of thinking as I laid out before. It also makes sense fluff wise, If a warlock starts suffering from a perils test then the farseer is going to intervene and try and help guide them with her superior knowledge and psychic power. Likewise a primaris psyker is going to try his best not to kill the guardsmen around him, even more so if being encouraged by the sight of the commissars bolt pistol in his face!

I'm now thinking along similar lines for Priests - with a Commissar pointing a Bolt Pistol as his head:
"Say your prayers."

1) I don't know but my guess would be that most people made their own "counts as" models so they were not selling many official ones. Still sucks as without Al'Rahem and his ability to outflank an entire platoon foot guard have become a much much less mobile force. It is very hard to charge you men up field when casualties are taken from the front.

2) I see foot guard as an Anti-Cheese force. All those death stars and cheese units are kind of wasted when being forced to kill 5pts models all game

3) Ha! Brilliant can just imagine the Commissar pointing his Bolt Pistol at the Priest, frantically shouting "Pray harder god dammit! We are losing!"