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It's not intentional 99% of the time! but anyone that says "I roll better one at a time" is manipulating the rolls. It's not some devious thing - they likely don't realize how they do it.

But it's not just theossobility of cheating - it's silly to purposely delay the game for no reason. If you want to add suspense, roll all but 1-2 together and if those last 2 matter, roll them individually. Rolling 5+ dice individually does nothing but aggravate your opponent.

And you LOS example doesn't apply - that's not the example the OP was giving. And in his example, it likely was unintentional dice manipulation ("never" failing a 2+ when rolled individually vs failing some when rolled together).

Read entire thread, then respond.

 Filch wrote:
I know how much bull gak that is to role one dice at a time. It is much easier to manipulate 1 dice than a handful.

Not technically true. The 3V technique can roll a 6 and a 4+ nearly everytime with practice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:
In your mind why does rolling one at a time make a difference?

Makes no difference unless he knows how to manipulate dice, which most people don't (because really why are you wasting it playing 40k and not Vegas?) What it 100% is though is annoying as all hell and slows the game down.

Tell me more about this 3v technique.

I was insulted when a player pulled out a huge dice i mean it was so huge you needed 2 hands to roll the dice for all his saves. I told him flat out, I am done playing you if you think I am too stupid to not realize you are cheating with that dice. He argued with me about using what ever dice he wants but I just packed up my army and left.

Shooting;
Roll to Hit
Roll to Wound
Wound Pool pg34
Allocate and Remove pg35 (note top right paragraph; Out of Sight)
Look Out Sir pg100 is still closest model. (Ignores LoS rules)
Line of Sight pg14 this is important, because the target enemy units models block LoS to each other from the friendly shooting unit. Additionally, a second enemy unit also blocks LoS, and grants a cover save pg38 intervening models (note the description of "fires through the gaps."
What if your models can only see ONE enemy model? And that model is a Character? Then the enemy can attempt Look Out Sir, and allocate wounds to the closest model out of LoS.
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Why are these rules I pointed out important, because you can pick off certain models in a unit with a little practice (like a BANNER). "Sorry this wall is blocking my Los, and my unit can only see those three models, one of which is your banner..."
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These rules are tricky to master, and players with precious Death Star units like to speed past these rules sometimes, do not let them (If they want all great benefits of a certain units rules, then they have to accept the detriments.)
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As for rolling one dice at a time, well that is a preference, but a player should have no issue with switching dice for each roll OR using your dice, OR using a cup. and if it is a time issue, the said player dare not have issue if you bring the LoS rules above to their attention..

 Filch wrote:
Tell me more about this 3v technique.

I was insulted when a player pulled out a huge dice i mean it was so huge you needed 2 hands to roll the dice for all his saves. I told him flat out, I am done playing you if you think I am too stupid to not realize you are cheating with that dice. He argued with me about using what ever dice he wants but I just packed up my army and left.

The 3V is when you have the 3s in a V shape with the 5 and 6 facing one way and the 1 and 2 facing the other. Depending on what side you drop them on will run different results. Basically the idea is that they land together and are forced apart which reveals the 6 and the 5 in the center. Ive got it down to the point where I can toss it at 90% 4+s with just under half the dice being 6. No I don't do it in games, but it gives you the idea what to look for, as I have seen people with entire blocks of 3Vs pre set up. If you see your opponent fiddling with his dice before hand you can call him out.

There is lots of different methods, 6x6T, power drops, and even ways to rig cups.

I learned the 3V in about 10 minutes (I have dice on my computer desk for brainstorming and test rolling) its why in craps you have to throw the dice. But like I said before, its a useless skill for 40k and kind of sad. If you are going to learn to rig dice at least go to Vegas and make money.

thought i might add my 2 bits to this dice question. im not sure if the odds are necessarily different, but i would roll in favor of not rolling one at a time. why? because of table side courtesy, dont be a jerk trying to defend the 1 die at a time thing, its just annoying for the other player, if he is uncomfortable with it, then bloody stop. i personalty stop having fun when my opponent stops having fun.
likewise if your opponent insists on doing 1die a time, you could refuse to play him, 'or" you could swallow your pride, take a step back, and remember you are here to have fun in a game you love, let the donkey-cave role his singles, take the extra time to think of ways to address the concern with him. dont just cut ties with a player when you have the potential to act civil and cool-headily address the issue with him, who knows, he might see it your way and change, thus becoming a better, funner opponent to play with.

i dont have much of an experience with this since i haven't played many games myself, but i was guilty of dice manipulation on a few games. i had two sets of dice; my gamesworkshop dice, and a random assortment of dice. i realized the gw dice tended to role lower, while my random dice tended to role higher. so i used the gw dice for roles for skatter and the such, and the randums for everything else. my friend noticed, and called me out, but instead of saying he would not play with me again, he just made a cool-headed case against it, and left it at that. after a few more games, the words he said eventual got to me, and i have now sworn to use only gw dice from now on. he was patient with me, and because of that he helped me realize how i could be a better player.

while not a case of 1 die at a time, it was a good example of how to deal with those that may bug you with it. but hey, i could be wrong and the person you play with might never change.

The rules say to roll one at a time, but gives you the "option" to roll them all together if you "want" to.

If you don't like that, play a different game and roll all of your dice together, but unless your opponent is cheating (manipulating his dice rolls) or stalling (to run out the clock at a tournament), grabbing his hand and making him drop all of his dice at once or telling him you'll never play him again unless he throws them all together comes off as incredibly juvenile.

If he's playing guard blob, nids horde, or green tide then sure it would be irritating, but if he has a squad full of special characters, one failed save may prompt him to start making LoS rolls and after the guy jumping in front of the bullet for that character dies he may want to stop making LoS rolls - telling him that he has to throw all his dice at once or you're going to leave robs him of that choice - a choice the rulebook gives him. You don't like it? Write a letter to GW and ask them to FAQ it so that everybody always has to roll all of their dice in one go.

That fact of the matter is that the rulebook says to roll one at a time and gives you the choice to roll all at once if you want to. I wouldn't want to play with someone who demanded that I roll the dice the way he wants me to.

Verviedi wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:
I will sometimes roll one by one when I have a half dozen saves on termies if it could be deciding roll just because it fun to build that bit of suspense.

That's my opponent's reasoning. He ignores it when I say a unit of Termagants overwatching a 3-inch charge and taking saves for the hits is not "suspenseful"

See that's a whole different story, I would never do it in that situation, mostly cause I may die of old age before I finish. I usually do it just for Big MCs or termies or special characters. I would also do it if there was a decent chance of wanting to look out sir some wounds to keep a character alive or in a unit with mixed saves. But blobs of termagants who cares if they all die it's really what they are there to do, then the fun is seeing if I can roll all the saves in one go with T3 its usually a lot.

It sounds like that guy is really trying to either stall or manipulate dice rolls, I would just stop playing with him for a while if its not fun because of this.

I really only ever do it for Look Out Sir or potential times where a character might die without the opportunity for LOS if I throw them all at once.

A lot of people do that con-job thing where they roll all the Look Our Sirs first. I don't like that, because you can potentially skew the numbers (both ways!). I take 10 wounds, I roll 10 LOS, 3 are on the character the rest are on the squad. How do we know which failed save on the 3 dice is first, second or third? He could have died on the first one -- in this case, the unit gets saved from having to take some wounds. In other cases, it goes the opposite way, the unit ends up taking more wounds that should have gone on the character potentially.

I don't know. At the end of the day I am somewhat appalled by how much people care about this. What other game has a community this aggro that even the way the other guy rolls his dice makes them annoyed?

That fact of the matter is that the rulebook says to roll one at a time and gives you the choice to roll all at once if you want to. I wouldn't want to play with someone who demanded that I roll the dice the way he wants me to.

The game takes hours to play as is... If you insist on rolling your dice 1 at a time then your just wasting time I could be using to play someone else.

No matter though, since you wouldn't want to play against me and I wouldn't want to play against someone who does it.

And this is why I am trying to sell my csm army. When I first started out, i was so enthusiastic but now that I run into dice manipulating players, mat ward mary sue armies, shield blast wave serpents, imperial knights in 1000 pt games, etc...

I can not believe i wasted money on this game. and over 6 years of my life.