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I'd like a Black Crusade lead by Typhus. Obviously it would be Nurgle orientated but their ranks can swell with the dead.

I think Erebus would be good for another one that could represent all Gods.

Huron would never be Warmaster because he's a runt to the older chaos Astartes.

After reading Talon's Of Horus, I am sticking with Abaddon.

Devram Korda? Bit left field but possible?

graywater wrote:
The war council is a cool idea, and probably the most realistic because of the lack of any single figurehead that could unify all the forces of Chaos.

But then you look at the Black Council of the Word Bearers and how they treat each other. It's all back stabbing and hidden agendas to get one up on each other and further their own ends.

There's too much hatred and animosity between the Legions and warbands for it to work and without someone powerful to hold allegiances together they would fracture. Abaddon works because he has the favour of all Gods, has been fighting as long as anyone and is a boss.

Now if another caught the Eye of the four and were marked and they deemed that Abaddon had had his chances that's a different story. But it would have to be someone who's not affiliated with a single god and has done deeds on par with Abaddon. But I can't think of anyone like that.

NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Devram Korda? Bit left field but possible?

Possibly, was thinking on him myself, I think he could be a potential candidate and a good heir. But does he have the same drive and charisma as Abaddon? He's pissed off the Emperors Children before.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

graywater wrote:
The war council is a cool idea, and probably the most realistic because of the lack of any single figurehead that could unify all the forces of Chaos.

But then you look at the Black Council of the Word Bearers and how they treat each other. It's all back stabbing and hidden agendas to get one up on each other and further their own ends.

There's too much hatred and animosity between the Legions and warbands for it to work and without someone powerful to hold allegiances together they would fracture. Abaddon works because he has the favour of all Gods, has been fighting as long as anyone and is a boss.

Now if another caught the Eye of the four and were marked and they deemed that Abaddon had had his chances that's a different story. But it would have to be someone who's not affiliated with a single god and has done deeds on par with Abaddon. But I can't think of anyone like that.

I agree. That's why I was saying that the council is likely the best option with what we have. It is totally going to be full of backstabbing and hidden agendas, but we have that going on now. That sort of thing is a huge part of what chaos is. Besides Abaddon, I do not feel like we have a single character that is universally supported by the Gods and feared/respected enough by the chaos forces to make any kind of significant unification efforts. Warbands that join the Black Crusades may all do it for different reasons and I am sure many of the participating factions despise each other. Abaddon is feared enough to control these groups. Huron would not be able to do this, but if a few major players like Typhus and Ahriman can keep their respective forces under control, then I feel like those players would be able to work well-enough together to make something work.
These characters were included in this poll because they are seen to possess the potential to assume a leadership role. I do not think that they have the ability to lead a force like Abaddon for various shortcomings, but they are capable enough to collaborate if need be, and influential enough within their own sphere to assume an Abaddon-like role for the forces to whom they may personally call on. They are also ambitious enough to attempt Black Crusade-esque plots, but intelligent enough to know that they will need support beyond whatever they can personally muster.

graywater wrote:

These characters were included in this poll because they are seen to possess the potential to assume a leadership role. I do not think that they have the ability to lead a force like Abaddon for various shortcomings, but they are capable enough to collaborate if need be, and influential enough within their own sphere to assume an Abaddon-like role for the forces to whom they may personally call on. They are also ambitious enough to attempt Black Crusade-esque plots, but intelligent enough to know that they will need support beyond whatever they can personally muster.

A lot of them already do and have had 10 thousand years of doing their own thing. Typhus is content to go on his own crusades and spread the love of Nurgle, Ahriman goes on his quests for knowledge. But they've never made the effort like Abaddon has. Sure they could rustle up some support, but it's going to be nothing like what Abaddon could accomplish.

I understand what you are saying. But these guys are too set down their own paths to become anything other than what they already are.It's why they join Abaddon rather than try to usurp him.

Assuming somehow Abadon fails, I wouldsay Typhus, but Abadon has thus far been almost entirely a success.

 Pilau Rice wrote:

graywater wrote:

These characters were included in this poll because they are seen to possess the potential to assume a leadership role. I do not think that they have the ability to lead a force like Abaddon for various shortcomings, but they are capable enough to collaborate if need be, and influential enough within their own sphere to assume an Abaddon-like role for the forces to whom they may personally call on. They are also ambitious enough to attempt Black Crusade-esque plots, but intelligent enough to know that they will need support beyond whatever they can personally muster.

A lot of them already do and have had 10 thousand years of doing their own thing. Typhus is content to go on his own crusades and spread the love of Nurgle, Ahriman goes on his quests for knowledge. But they've never made the effort like Abaddon has. Sure they could rustle up some support, but it's going to be nothing like what Abaddon could accomplish.

I understand what you are saying. But these guys are too set down their own paths to become anything other than what they already are.It's why they join Abaddon rather than try to usurp him.

All true. Looking at it, I answered what I think would be the most effective successor of Abaddon, not who or what is most likely to actually succeed him.

I would go with someone brand new built from the ground up i think that would be beat especially if it was a woman(which i know would mean it wouldn't be a chaos space marine) pysker of somekind.

What if after abaddon gets killed by a fire warrior the chaos gods decide to promote the big 4 (typhus ahriman kharn...other guy) into a quartet of warmasters instead. Each with their own legion to lead, while riding 4 horses that matched them, call them the four H....nah too easy.

My vote is swarmlord

gilamonster wrote:
I would go with someone brand new built from the ground up i think that would be beat especially if it was a woman(which i know would mean it wouldn't be a chaos space marine) pysker of somekind.

I agree with the comment earlier about how they wouldn't follow some new comer non-VoLTW.
I am sticking to my council idea.

Personal theory:

The Warp Gods thrive upon the status quo. They are known to be the worst of sentient emotion personified. They feed upon the galaxy as it is.

Do they want to smash down all civilisation, flood into realspace and dance on the galaxy's ashes?

No. They'd starve to death soon after.

They didn't pick Abbadon to win. They picked him because he can rally the troops, break a few planets and spread the reputation of the gods thus helping keep things from ever improving. They picked him because he's an inspiring prescence, a potent physical threat, and an awful general.

Who would they pick if he died? Another big angry guy in Terminator armour with a Daemon Weapon who can inspire and bully warbands into following his banner on a hopeless, pointless crusade.

The most competent person they could have to lead them is probably Ahriman but he would never do so.
Besides Ahriman isn't that keen on Tzeentch, You guys do not know much about him it seems.

Huron leads the Red Coarsairs, which is as large as, or even larger than, the Legions of Pre-Heresy. Besides Abbadon, he does lead the largest army. The Coarsairs are also worshipers of the Undivided Chaos, so like Abbadon, Huron would be able to strike deals with all the Gods and CSMs he wanted, and with his army, what man would say no?

Decay wrote:
Huron leads the Red Coarsairs, which is as large as, or even larger than, the Legions of Pre-Heresy. Besides Abbadon, he does lead the largest army. The Coarsairs are also worshipers of the Undivided Chaos, so like Abbadon, Huron would be able to strike deals with all the Gods and CSMs he wanted, and with his army, what man would say no?

You're exaggerating their size a tad bit....

Am I? Sorry, I thought I saw it described like that somewhere.

Decay wrote:
Am I? Sorry, I thought I saw it described like that somewhere.

It was like that, but then the Legion size went up from 10, 000 to 100,000 standard (with variations like the Thousand Sons and Emperor's Children who are much smaller and the Ultramarines and Word Bearers who are much larger). Huron doesn't have a hope of controlling 100k Marines, never mind the whole faction, not to mention the associated Dark Mechanicum and Renegades. He's too young, not respected enough and while he does have the fleets to bully other warbands in space, in a head to head battle with one of the older, more powerful Lords he'd lose. He only maintains his power because his forces are filled with newbie CSM and dhe avoids fights he can't win. But you put him at the top of the food chain, one of the bigger dogs will destroy him. Kharn, Typhus, any Daemon Prince would rip him. They'd do it to Abaddon too but he has his nuclear deterent (Drachnyen).

 koooaei wrote:
Kharn if he stops killing all his followers for a second. But he won't.

swell guy, that kharn....

I doubt Kharn counts anyone with him as a "follower".

Khonsu wrote:
The most competent person they could have to lead them is probably Ahriman but he would never do so.
Besides Ahriman isn't that keen on Tzeentch, You guys do not know much about him it seems.

You seriously don't think that Ahriman wouldn't lead a legion of Tzeentch if he had the opportunity? It seems you are the one who doesn't know much about him. Think of the opportunity to gather knowledge if he had a larger force of his 1k sons at his back, larger than just his warband. I am sure he would jump at the chance to lead a bigger force, even if he did it selfishly.
I am more surprised people keep saying he is the best choice, all he would do is launch raids against seats of knowledge.

Decimus, Prophet of the VIII legion has pedigree and the motivation for the long war. We are yet to see him in action though afaik.

Varan the Undefeatable. He would certainly be the "Greatest Warmaster of all Time". Of course, he is unfortunately dead but for the truly faithful this should be but a minor setback.

Huron's being groomed for it.

But I'd also suggest a Triumvirate of Alpharius/Omegon, Huron (Depending on if either, both or neither are dead) and Cypher.

 Rippy wrote:

Khonsu wrote:
The most competent person they could have to lead them is probably Ahriman but he would never do so.
Besides Ahriman isn't that keen on Tzeentch, You guys do not know much about him it seems.

You seriously don't think that Ahriman wouldn't lead a legion of Tzeentch if he had the opportunity? It seems you are the one who doesn't know much about him. Think of the opportunity to gather knowledge if he had a larger force of his 1k sons at his back, larger than just his warband. I am sure he would jump at the chance to lead a bigger force, even if he did it selfishly.
I am more surprised people keep saying he is the best choice, all he would do is launch raids against seats of knowledge.

That's pretty far off than our meaning, We mean if he intended to destroy the Imperium was a warmaster, Not his normal "Gather Knowledge" quest.
Besides are you sure we're talking about the same Ahriman?
The one who refuses the acknowledge Tzeentch and Chaos as his masters?

Besides it was said he knows the rituals to summon Daemonic armies himself.

Talos reborn. Teach the Imperium fear.

Khonsu wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

Khonsu wrote:
The most competent person they could have to lead them is probably Ahriman but he would never do so.
Besides Ahriman isn't that keen on Tzeentch, You guys do not know much about him it seems.

You seriously don't think that Ahriman wouldn't lead a legion of Tzeentch if he had the opportunity? It seems you are the one who doesn't know much about him. Think of the opportunity to gather knowledge if he had a larger force of his 1k sons at his back, larger than just his warband. I am sure he would jump at the chance to lead a bigger force, even if he did it selfishly.
I am more surprised people keep saying he is the best choice, all he would do is launch raids against seats of knowledge.

That's pretty far off than our meaning, We mean if he intended to destroy the Imperium was a warmaster, Not his normal "Gather Knowledge" quest.
Besides are you sure we're talking about the same Ahriman?
The one who refuses the acknowledge Tzeentch and Chaos as his masters?

Besides it was said he knows the rituals to summon Daemonic armies himself.

I understand that if Ahriman wasn't the way that Ahriman is he would be a good war master, but that is exactly the point, Ahriman probably wouldn't stop his collect knowledge quest to be war master hense his unsuitability for the job.
His ultimate goal is to understand Tzeentch so he can ascend to their power, if he thought he could achieve that by leading Daemons of Tzeentch why would he not?

 Rippy wrote:

Khonsu wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

Khonsu wrote:
The most competent person they could have to lead them is probably Ahriman but he would never do so.
Besides Ahriman isn't that keen on Tzeentch, You guys do not know much about him it seems.

You seriously don't think that Ahriman wouldn't lead a legion of Tzeentch if he had the opportunity? It seems you are the one who doesn't know much about him. Think of the opportunity to gather knowledge if he had a larger force of his 1k sons at his back, larger than just his warband. I am sure he would jump at the chance to lead a bigger force, even if he did it selfishly.
I am more surprised people keep saying he is the best choice, all he would do is launch raids against seats of knowledge.

That's pretty far off than our meaning, We mean if he intended to destroy the Imperium was a warmaster, Not his normal "Gather Knowledge" quest.
Besides are you sure we're talking about the same Ahriman?
The one who refuses the acknowledge Tzeentch and Chaos as his masters?

Besides it was said he knows the rituals to summon Daemonic armies himself.

I understand that if Ahriman wasn't the way that Ahriman is he would be a good war master, but that is exactly the point, Ahriman probably wouldn't stop his collect knowledge quest to be war master hense his unsuitability for the job.
His ultimate goal is to understand Tzeentch so he can ascend to their power, if he thought he could achieve that by leading Daemons of Tzeentch why would he not?

Notice each time people mentioned Ahriman they've added an "If".

Khonsu wrote:

Notice each time people mentioned Ahriman they've added an "If".

People are adding an if because they are acknowledging that Ahriman has the skills to be a great leader of Black Crusade-esque magnitude. However, there is the crucial hangup that Ahriman's goals do not include the complete destruction of the Imperium. Therefore, understanding his current motives and goals, Ahriman would not be a great successor to Abaddon. He would not achieve what Abaddon did/does/could because his aims are different than Abaddon's and for a different end. The reason people are adding an if is because he has the skills to be the next leader, but he does not have the necessary desires to put the forces of Chaos to use against the Imperium. It is not for lack of ability, but difference in vision.

 Lobukia wrote:
Talos reborn. Teach the Imperium fear.

Decimus carries Talos' gene seed and was taught by Melchorian the war sage.

graywater wrote:

Khonsu wrote:

Notice each time people mentioned Ahriman they've added an "If".

People are adding an if because they are acknowledging that Ahriman has the skills to be a great leader of Black Crusade-esque magnitude. However, there is the crucial hangup that Ahriman's goals do not include the complete destruction of the Imperium. Therefore, understanding his current motives and goals, Ahriman would not be a great successor to Abaddon. He would not achieve what Abaddon did/does/could because his aims are different than Abaddon's and for a different end. The reason people are adding an if is because he has the skills to be the next leader, but he does not have the necessary desires to put the forces of Chaos to use against the Imperium. It is not for lack of ability, but difference in vision.

I haven't seen any evidence of him being a good leader though. He risked his entire legion through the rubric (although his intentions were good). Even pre-heresy there wasn't much. Post heresy he leads his small Warband on a selfish quest.
I guess I am asking what publication I missed where he proves his leadership and management abilities bar "I am a powerful psyker, let's steal info for myself."