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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Some of the new formations coming out for BA look pretty awesome.

Yup. If the rumors are true, The Angel's Fury Spearhead force is going to be pretty sweet.

Angels Fury Spearhead Force

Formation:
3 tactical squads
3 stormraven gunships

Restrictions:
Each stormraven gunship must include10 models. The sergeant of each tactical squad in this formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This formations tactical squads cannot take dedicated transports and must begin the game embarked in the stormraven gunships from this formation.

Special rules:

Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve within 12" of at least two models from the formation equipped with teleport homers then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.

Objective secured:
All troops units from this formation have the objective secured special rule (see page blah blah)

Spearhead strike force:
When making reserve rolls make a single roll for the entire formation, which you can choose to re-reoll. If successful, all units arrive from the formation.You can make a reserve roll for this formation from the start of turn 1.

benjak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Some of the new formations coming out for BA look pretty awesome.

Yup. If the rumors are true, The Angel's Fury Spearhead force is going to be pretty sweet.

Angels Fury Spearhead Force

Formation:
3 tactical squads
3 stormraven gunships

Restrictions:
Each stormraven gunship must include10 models. The sergeant of each tactical squad in this formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This formations tactical squads cannot take dedicated transports and must begin the game embarked in the stormraven gunships from this formation.

Special rules:

Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve within 12" of at least two models from the formation equipped with teleport homers then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.

Objective secured:
All troops units from this formation have the objective secured special rule (see page blah blah)

Spearhead strike force:
When making reserve rolls make a single roll for the entire formation, which you can choose to re-reoll. If successful, all units arrive from the formation.You can make a reserve roll for this formation from the start of turn 1.

Wow, that is not bad at all!

Akiasura wrote:

benjak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Some of the new formations coming out for BA look pretty awesome.

Yup. If the rumors are true, The Angel's Fury Spearhead force is going to be pretty sweet.

Angels Fury Spearhead Force

Formation:
3 tactical squads
3 stormraven gunships

Restrictions:
Each stormraven gunship must include10 models. The sergeant of each tactical squad in this formation must take a teleport homer as a free upgrade. This formations tactical squads cannot take dedicated transports and must begin the game embarked in the stormraven gunships from this formation.

Special rules:

Augur triangulation:
If a friendly unit with the Blood angels faction arrives from deep strike reserve within 12" of at least two models from the formation equipped with teleport homers then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.

Objective secured:
All troops units from this formation have the objective secured special rule (see page blah blah)

Spearhead strike force:
When making reserve rolls make a single roll for the entire formation, which you can choose to re-reoll. If successful, all units arrive from the formation.You can make a reserve roll for this formation from the start of turn 1.

Wow, that is not bad at all!

Yup. Death Company and Hammernators deep-striking with no scatter AND able to charge in the same turn? Yes please! Of course, you'll need 3 Stormravens, good thing I have 2 already...

If that is true, it will be awesome.

Well, that's pretty devastating. And not like you have to take bad units to unlock it. Both tacticals and stormravens are pretty much solid.

Not that you're gona have a lot of turn 1-2 board controle but it sure looks like a counter to serp spam. At least for BA.

Gonna have to tool tacs up for combat. Would you even bother with a special weapon?

For 1750, I'm thinking heavy flamer. flamer, combi-flamer and meltabomb for the tac squads and then take a Baal Strike Force detachment with a librarian, 2 scout squads and 2 Death Company squads (8 guys with 1 power lance, 1 powerfist and jump packs). Libby can go into one of the storm ravens...scout squads basically hide and seize nearby objectives late game. With +1 initiative from the detachment special rule, and charging from deep strike the DC should be able to take on almost anything.. 3 Stormravens (AC/MM) should be enough to seize air control and are a pretty good counter to Imperial Knights and 30 combat squadded objective-secure tac marines burning and boltering through the enemy deployment area should be fun.

 UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
REAL results
(i.e. tournaments)

In 40K? A game, where balance is a myth?
No. Just... no.
Tournament results have nothing to do what makes armies good or bad. That's an argument from authority fallacy.

 Tigramans wrote:

 UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
REAL results
(i.e. tournaments)

In 40K? A game, where balance is a myth?
No. Just... no.
Tournament results have nothing to do what makes armies good or bad. That's an argument from authority fallacy.

"I'll let REAL results (i.e. tournaments) dictate how good the dex is in a competitive setting"
That would be the entire quote. In terms of an army being good, in a competitive setting (as quoted), tournaments would seem sufficient.

The new BA are fun, thematic, and just plain cool factoring in the formations, all separate from competitively good or bad.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/626355.page#7431447

The new formations allow players to represent the BA on the table-top in really cool ways, beyond unique units and FoC quirks. Whether they're competitively good or not doesn't detract from this.

Good FMC don't land, because they don't melee. Nids run 4-6 flying ones and all they do is shoting. The only other FMC army was demons and there FMC are only run for support .

 UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

"I'll let REAL results (i.e. tournaments) dictate how good the dex is in a competitive setting"
That would be the entire quote. In terms of an army being good, in a competitive setting (as quoted), tournaments would seem sufficient.

First of all, I tried to avoid another obvious fallacy, but you didn't let me (No True Scotsman Fallacy: "REAL results" Really? What makes 'em valid above others?")

In other tabletop games and/or other forms of games, tournaments would seem sufficient, but definitely not in 40K. Why? Because its competitiveness is notoriously flawed. It has never meant to be competitive. Besides: each tournament may have a different set of rules and blacklists, so which one are you really choosing here?

See where I'm getting at?

 UnadoptedPuppy wrote:

The new BA are fun, thematic, and just plain cool factoring in the formations, all separate from competitively good or bad.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/240/626355.page#7431447

The new formations allow players to represent the BA on the table-top in really cool ways, beyond unique units and FoC quirks. Whether they're competitively good or not doesn't detract from this.

Yes, they are cool, and they finally got a nice boost to the 7th Ed what they needed, but what does this have to do with competitiveness?

I just wish modern marines could get jetbikes like in the Horus Heresy.


Jetbike spam is like bike spam, only ten times better, tougher, and packing more dakka.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Correct me if im wrong, but dont FMCs have to land the turn before assaulting now? So if they land, theyre dead. Dakkatyrants can pose issues, as can flying biomancy daemon princes, but thats really about it.

Flyrants are the most scary of all the FMCs. If your list can't deal with them then you're in serious trouble. Now that 5 Flyrants is legal even under the BAO format expect to see a lot of threads complaining about them. People thought Riptides were tough? Flyrants may be the best point for point model in the game when considered what they do for the Nids and to the enemy.

A T6 3+ FMC with 12 BS4 TL S6 shots or 6 + Haywire template that's a ML2, Synapse and has easy access to FNP and Shrouded and is decent in assault is not something your list can ignore. Atleast not when most Tyranid list run 3-4 of them.

Edit: And one per army has access to the Tyranid Fighter Ace table which on a 3-4 is an extra wound and 5-6 is the ability to fly off the board in your opponents shooting phase then re-enter on your movement phase.

 Zande4 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Correct me if im wrong, but dont FMCs have to land the turn before assaulting now? So if they land, theyre dead. Dakkatyrants can pose issues, as can flying biomancy daemon princes, but thats really about it.

Flyrants are the most scary of all the FMCs. If your list can't deal with them then you're in serious trouble. Now that 5 Flyrants is legal even under the BAO format expect to see a lot of threads complaining about them. People thought Riptides were tough? Flyrants may be the best point for point model in the game when considered what they do for the Nids and to the enemy.

A T6 3+ FMC with 12 BS4 TL S6 shots or 6 + Haywire template that's a ML2, Synapse and has easy access to FNP and Shrouded and is decent in assault is not something your list can ignore. Atleast not when most Tyranid list run 3-4 of them.

Edit: And one per army has access to the Tyranid Fighter Ace table which on a 3-4 is an extra wound and 5-6 is the ability to fly off the board in your opponents shooting phase then re-enter on your movement phase.

I've been thinking about getting a Tyranid box set for Christmas, you want to put a venom cannon on your flyrant right?

Real results, tournaments, competitive and gw lol. 40k is neither designed or made that way.

Blood angels are fine and if people are judging them based off tournaments where only cheese lists and spam lists which mean nothing to anyone are folks go to judgement well doesn't say much lets be honest

 Wyzilla wrote:

I've been thinking about getting a Tyranid box set for Christmas, you want to put a venom cannon on your flyrant right?

No no. 2 twin linked Devourers. There's no model for them outside of Forgeworld so you have to make your own. Many ways to do so.

But, the reason I came here.. Finally grabbed the BA codex and even I as not a BA player am underwhelmed... Looks like a Pod list is great but I started building a list and I'm just not finding the points being useful. Easy access to Melta looks like it's going to be the make or break bit of the codex in competitive formats. 3 Melta max ASM and some Flamer max Troop Pods to hold objectives. I wouldn't be surprised if the new detachments are skipped completely for tournaments... Objective Secured seems like the easy option to take and priority one to get the points.

From a fluffy perspective, I'm liking the choices for a 1st Company list. Shame no Stormraven without a CAD but scouts are a small price to pay. Give them tents and Heavy Bolters. They won't move after their Scout move at the start.

 koooaei wrote:
Well, that's pretty devastating. And not like you have to take bad units to unlock it. Both tacticals and stormravens are pretty much solid.

Not that you're gona have a lot of turn 1-2 board controle but it sure looks like a counter to serp spam. At least for BA.

The weakness to the rule is much like Trygon tunnels.

The Stormraven's don't arrive until turn two. Therefore even if the tactical marines perform a Skies of Blood HALO jump out the arse, those teleport homers won't be on-line until turn 3 at the earliest. By which time, 66% of your deep striking units have already deep struck.

To be honest, nuts to the triangulation rule. That's over 1,000 points of models right there. More like 1200 if you want some fairly standard kit upgrades. So 'the rest of your army' is probably two short scout squads and a mastery level 1 librarian having a crafty smoke behind an aegis line somewhere.... Far more important is the fact that it's three gunships with a reserve reroll.

The storm raven detachment rolls for reserves starting turn 1.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

I've been thinking about getting a Tyranid box set for Christmas, you want to put a venom cannon on your flyrant right?

No no. 2 twin linked Devourers. There's no model for them outside of Forgeworld so you have to make your own. Many ways to do so.

But, the reason I came here.. Finally grabbed the BA codex and even I as not a BA player am underwhelmed... Looks like a Pod list is great but I started building a list and I'm just not finding the points being useful. Easy access to Melta looks like it's going to be the make or break bit of the codex in competitive formats. 3 Melta max ASM and some Flamer max Troop Pods to hold objectives. I wouldn't be surprised if the new detachments are skipped completely for tournaments... Objective Secured seems like the easy option to take and priority one to get the points.

From a fluffy perspective, I'm liking the choices for a 1st Company list. Shame no Stormraven without a CAD but scouts are a small price to pay. Give them tents and Heavy Bolters. They won't move after their Scout move at the start.

The codex is...not great.
Dem formations doh

It is a bit like tyranid codex. The codex is as people call it "balanced", but to play it for realy you need another book with formations , a WD with formations and ally with their own codex.

As a Tyranid player that's nothing new. At some point I'm going to see if I can write something using the Archangel's 16 Elite Detachment and the Angel's Fury Formation. I'm actually considering making it a null deployment and seeing how that goes since the Stormraven's have a rerollable Reserve Turn 1.

I can already see the Ravens pooping out Combat Squads all across the board while the other 1000pts of Sternguard, Vanguard and Terminators appear wherever they like with D6" scatter worst case. And since Ravens can take Locator Beacons as an upgrade, not sure why people are concerned about the teleporters. Free equipment that can go unused for no penalty.

 Zande4 wrote:

Boniface wrote:
Just for the record I'm not, nor have I ever been a blood angel player. But picking up battle scribe without the codex I can make a fairly strong list off the bat.
I'll admit my theory with flyers is don't take them into account, destroy the stuff that matters because flyers will leave the table and then it's game over.
Equally it's been a long time since I played.

Good luck ignoring FMC's

Or a couple of Night Scythes which will rule with their tesla annihilators.

Dante seems pretty solid now, and Mephiston has some of his bite back which is really nice.

QUESTION: Did Gabriel Seth finally get a 2+ save??

On topic: I don't think BA are top tier right now, the biggest impression from what I have heard is that they may be one of the better armies to ally with, but standalone, I'm not so sure. C:SM has a LOT of flexibility, and have shown to be an extremely strong codex in tourney play as well as casual. Time will tell but for now I have to disagree with the OP.

I'll have a better idea after I actually play a few games. I think just by reading the stats and point costs, BA are mid-grade but can still perform well with skilled generalship.

 Tigramans wrote:

First of all, I tried to avoid another obvious fallacy, but you didn't let me (No True Scotsman Fallacy: "REAL results" Really? What makes 'em valid above others?")

In other tabletop games and/or other forms of games, tournaments would seem sufficient, but definitely not in 40K. Why? Because its competitiveness is notoriously flawed. It has never meant to be competitive. Besides: each tournament may have a different set of rules and blacklists, so which one are you really choosing here?

See where I'm getting at?

I emphasize real, as opposed to assumptions from just reading the codex. I absolutely agree with you that 40K is not meant to be competitive. However, people still play it competitively. And if the codex performs well in multiple tournament profiles, as most competitively good codexes do, calling it competitively good would be validated. I apologize if my poor wording encouraged you to see different reasons for emphasizing real.

I do see where you're getting at, and you're not wrong, but you can't ignore the tournament scene (which I generally do not take part of).

Yes, they are cool, and they finally got a nice boost to the 7th Ed what they needed, but what does this have to do with competitiveness?

Absolute nothing, which is precisely why I mentioned it. All of those reasons are why I'm going to start a Blood Angel army. I also wanted to keep this conversation slightly on topic.

locarno24 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Well, that's pretty devastating. And not like you have to take bad units to unlock it. Both tacticals and stormravens are pretty much solid.

Not that you're gona have a lot of turn 1-2 board controle but it sure looks like a counter to serp spam. At least for BA.

The weakness to the rule is much like Trygon tunnels.

The Stormraven's don't arrive until turn two. Therefore even if the tactical marines perform a Skies of Blood HALO jump out the arse, those teleport homers won't be on-line until turn 3 at the earliest. By which time, 66% of your deep striking units have already deep struck.

To be honest, nuts to the triangulation rule. That's over 1,000 points of models right there. More like 1200 if you want some fairly standard kit upgrades. So 'the rest of your army' is probably two short scout squads and a mastery level 1 librarian having a crafty smoke behind an aegis line somewhere.... Far more important is the fact that it's three gunships with a reserve reroll.

They can arrive turn 1 and reroll failed reserve rolls if needed. Formation rules.