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So I think this might always have been the case, but based on the reviews etc I've seen lately, the blood Angels seem to be immensely better than the other marines.
Just comparing Angels to Salamanders for example the Angels get way more flamers/meltas in a squad and have access to more variants of these.
Scars still seem to have the edge in some areas but only just.
So are Angels just better or am I mistaken?

Well, I don't play vanilla Marines.
The DC is good and ASM squad are still a solid choice, even more because they can get two special weapons in a small squad.
After all, they are specialists.
Fast tanks are also God sent.

Boniface wrote:
So are Angels just better or am I mistaken?

You are mistaken.

Each flavor of Space Marine has something it's better at than other marines.

C:SM get bikes as troops, orbital bombardments, Centurions, more flyers, etc...

Blood Angels are probably about as good as DA now. Time will tell of course, but despite trying to be an assault army, they seem to lack a real focus. The only real assault units are Death Company, Sanguinary Guard and Assault Terminators.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Blood Angels are probably about as good as DA now. Time will tell of course, but despite trying to be an assault army, they seem to lack a real focus. The only real assault units are Death Company, Sanguinary Guard and Assault Terminators.

Amen to this.

In the 5th Blood Angels were an assalt army, in the sixth the assaulting became difficult and the army was more like a mobile shooting army.
Now it's somewhere in between of them, with the codex trying to simultaneously buff the assault options while removing their validance by forcing in Tacticals/Scouts.

Blood Angels do have some nice tricks when compared to the vanilla ones, but it works vise versa and the C:SM tricks are overall more useful.
A build or two might emerge after a while, giving BA an edge on certain things, but I would not call them better than vanilla dex.

I agree you are mistaken. Sm vanilla is a top tier codex. Ba is not, whatsoever, at all and honestly I'm tired of ba fans trying to make it so by wishing as hard as they can. It's a middle tier. At best. Period.

BA are actually vanilla -1, but I feel that they will be viable against MOST lists. I still have no idea what to do against Eldar, Tau, Necrons, but it's better than what we had.

The tiers are pretty much:
SW>SM>>>CSM>BA= DA
Imo

^ exalted. I like ba I do.. but all this oh we are top tier almost the best I'd annoying when it's simply not true.

I'll let REAL results (i.e. tournaments) dictate how good the dex is in a competitive setting, not a handful of people who read the army list, put the book down, and typed "they ain't as good as C:SM."

They are certainly better than DA, especially with all the formations they have access to.

 UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
I'll let REAL results (i.e. tournaments) dictate how good the dex is in a competitive setting, not a handful of people who read the army list, put the book down, and typed "they ain't as good as C:SM."

They are certainly better than DA, especially with all the formations they have access to.

And I shall let the real results (good players who possess a frontal lobe, allowing all kinds of thought) dictate how good a codex is in any setting, not a single person who read the army list, put the book down, typed "better than DA"

Dictate? Peesha who gave them authority. anarchy i say ANARCHY!

Honestly though has anyone actually played the new codex yet? regardless of competitive balls to the walls tournaments or casual fun times?

IMO

it should go

TWC > White scars bikes > SW,SM,BA > DA

this will probably change once we see all of the formations.

I think that in terms of Close Combat they are really superior, it's just a shame that Close Combat is not that viable.

We also lack some good AA outside of Fortifications and our Command Squad works different (Read: Can't take bikes and too many Grav-guns).

Kangodo wrote:
I think that in terms of Close Combat they are really superior, it's just a shame that Close Combat is not that viable.

We also lack some good AA outside of Fortifications and our Command Squad works different (Read: Can't take bikes and too many Grav-guns).

Its funny because the best wolf list is basically nothing but CC.

But yeah lacking AA kinda blows.

Maybe I'm the only one who's spotted it then.
BA have 5 man teams who can drop pod in with 3-4 Flamers meltas for around 170 points.
They have jump pack special weapons and bolters.
They have mobile weapons platforms I.e. Tanks that can actually move and shoot.
Two cheap feel no pain providing HQs.
Personally I just see massive potential in the codex and can definitely foresee them being higher up in the tier listing.

It was mentioned quite a bit about the mass flamers

though it has issues considering 7th weapon selection. (hand flamers vs flamers)

The melta should be good

Fast vehicles will be steller.

the Librarian getting the extra 12"jump power will be awsome too (but you needa roll it)

Dante should be awesome.

But the army does have issues with flyers.

edit: Also if i read it correctly the vanguard formation might be cool for dropping in guys danger close.

Just for the record I'm not, nor have I ever been a blood angel player. But picking up battle scribe without the codex I can make a fairly strong list off the bat.
I'll admit my theory with flyers is don't take them into account, destroy the stuff that matters because flyers will leave the table and then it's game over.
Equally it's been a long time since I played.

Yup, just drop the Veterans in some safe spot and put the ASM really close.
The big amount of S4-hits could do quite some pain.

To me, dropping in from reserve without a drop pod is instant death. It could be because my chaos list is Noise marine heavy, or it could be because we have a large amount of IG here, but usually that just results in masses of guys getting pulled off the table.

The massed flamers and melta are nice, but SW can do that with WG just as easily, and if I want to, with plasma, for a similar cost.

Fast tanks are good for the vindicator, I don't see the predator being anything special. They were in the dex before and didn't make a large appearance after Rback spam died.

The new priests are a nerf, not a buff compared to what they used to have. Only effects 2 squads, tied to HQ, not very good.

Isn't Dante land raider levels of points? He better be able to charge a squad down without dying and wipe it, and then rinse and repeat for him to be worth the points.

Lacking AA is bad but if necrons get a new dex that weakens their airforce it won't be a killer. Before the heldrake nerf sure, it would be the death of this army, but now it's not the worst thing in the world.

Oddly enough I think a Slaanesh based Chaos army or IG force would destroy BA. Well, that and eldar/tau/necron but who doesn't have a hard MU with those guys?

Noise marines will definitely be an issue but you could easily drop by 4 or so meltas and whatever other shooting you got could simply alpha them away. if they are hugging cover and GTG then your problems are solved too.

As for IG as long as you are shaking or stunning there ordnance it should be fine.

But obviously it will all depend on the terrain and actual rolling of dice.

 Desubot wrote:
Noise marines will definitely be an issue but you could easily drop by 4 or so meltas and whatever other shooting you got could simply alpha them away. if they are hugging cover and GTG then your problems are solved too.

As for IG as long as you are shaking or stunning there ordnance it should be fine.

But obviously it will all depend on the terrain and actual rolling of dice.

This is true. You have to hope you get close enough with everyone in range. Usually the blast master guys are way in the center with the ablative wo-....friends forming a circle around them so it'll be tough to kill all of them with one squad. Especially since you'll most likely get 2-3 kills without cover, 2 with. If you have to put 2 squads to my one, I doubt it'll be favorable. Forgefiends, oblits, vindis, and heldrakes will also like the deep striking stuff.
Luckily nurgle is the popular build, which BA should do okay against. Dropping melta on them hurts a nurgle army, especially since 5 man squads don't have nearly as much ablative wounds, which is far and away the favored option for them.

For IG, if you can find a spot to land near the rear of the tanks that will work. Most IG players I know bubble wrap pretty effectively, so it's hard to count on destroying all their tanks, but it could work. It's a little risky for me though, but it would be effective if you can smash most of their tanks turn 1.

I don't think Blood angels will struggle in every MU, but I do doubt they are better than C:SM. C:SM could just bike up and unleash Grav/plasma death while dropping in combi melta stern guard if they needed to. And their HQ is a nasty piece of work, neutering my lords because hey, challenges!

I'd be curious to hear how BA feels about the SW dex, which looks better.

The Vanguard formation scatters 1d6 and shots a bunch of bolter shots at units within some distance IIRC.

which is why im seeing it as a slight nussence than a deathblow.

BA can still combi stern too so it dont see that as an issue ether. you lose out on bikes sure but they are still expensive and work best if you run WS. and IIRC BA can bring out 3man bike squads with gravs or plas.
HQ section though i had not checked it out yet.

I must disagree with the OP, IH, WS, UM are all very good, and IMHO equal or superior to BA. A DA and WS allied bike force will destroy almost any build a BA player can field.

 Desubot wrote:

TWC > White scars bikes > SW,SM,BA > DA

LOL I like that

You forgot invisible centurions

Oh right how could i forget that

add GK+IF Centurion bomb after WSB

Point is while everyone agrees ba are good, most of us see the realization they aren't top tier in the sense of marines. As has been stated a thousand times and idk why it has to be stated more, they are a good middle tier army with nice balanced rules

Totally true. Oh wait, except for the lack of hit and run, combat squads, centurions, you know, all the things that make SM a top tier codex. Instead you get some assault buffs in an edition dominated by gun lines. Go ahead and hold your breath for BA to win a major tournament or get a higher GT win % than SM.

Boniface wrote:
Just for the record I'm not, nor have I ever been a blood angel player. But picking up battle scribe without the codex I can make a fairly strong list off the bat.
I'll admit my theory with flyers is don't take them into account, destroy the stuff that matters because flyers will leave the table and then it's game over.
Equally it's been a long time since I played.

Good luck ignoring FMC's

Some of the new formations coming out for BA look pretty awesome.

Correct me if im wrong, but dont FMCs have to land the turn before assaulting now? So if they land, theyre dead. Dakkatyrants can pose issues, as can flying biomancy daemon princes, but thats really about it.