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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
2x flamer pistols over combi flamer IMO

shooting twice each time vs one shot and done,

once you factor in the extra dice from wall of death over watch, IE two each time vs one once, its much better to have the two flame pistols

Fair points, I guess it's just preference. But my reasons for taking the Combi are:

1) Not bothered about Wall of Death. If I've been in range to use templates and haven't charged myself then something has already gone badly wrong.

2) realistically, good firing a template weapon twice per game at most before you're in CC or dead, so the one shot nature is hardly a deal breaker. Outside of template range, the combi contributes more.

I'll agree that a pair of HF beats a single combi, but it's also twice the price, and stops you taking a power weapon.

1. If you're using a Combi-Flamer in the first place, you're wanting to be in charging distance. SO the extra overwatch and damage output is worth it.
2. A Bolter is hardly a contribution outside of template range because Bolters are very meh in the first place.
3. Power Weapons on Tactical Squads are a bad idea.

I will agree on 1 &2, but #3 is probably more a META Thing.
Every time I don't take a Power Weapon [Usually a Lighting Claw actually, a fluffy thing] My Tactical Squad get jumped by something with AP3 Melee Weapon(s) and my Squad quickly get taken out without me being able to make an effective Fight. The Moment I have a "Power Weapon" those units don't Assault me as Much.

To clarify, the power weapon and lack of concern about Overwatch are there for the following reason: if I've got a squad in flamer range, you can bet your ass they'll be charging the same turn. It's always better to charge than be charged (unless you are a Grey Hunter) and even more so when you get bonuses to S and I like BA do now. My Tacticals will definitely be getting stuck in as soon possible against most foes.

 Paradigm wrote:
To clarify, the power weapon and lack of concern about Overwatch are there for the following reason: if I've got a squad in flamer range, you can bet your ass they'll be charging the same turn. It's always better to charge than be charged (unless you are a Grey Hunter) and even more so when you get bonuses to S and I like BA do now. My Tacticals will definitely be getting stuck in as soon possible against most foes.

So whenever you are in Template range, you are going to pop Bolt Pistols instead of bolters, then charge in with everyone?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
To clarify, the power weapon and lack of concern about Overwatch are there for the following reason: if I've got a squad in flamer range, you can bet your ass they'll be charging the same turn. It's always better to charge than be charged (unless you are a Grey Hunter) and even more so when you get bonuses to S and I like BA do now. My Tacticals will definitely be getting stuck in as soon possible against most foes.

So whenever you are in Template range, you are going to pop Bolt Pistols instead of bolters, then charge in with everyone?

Indeed. The plan is to drive up in a Rhino and disembark about 18" out and drop some Bolter Fire (flat out the Rhino to cover them), then the enemy come closer (there will be DS elements dropping behind them to force them forward) and next turn I flamr/pistol and charge.

Were I to be podding, I'd swap out for 2 Flamer pistols as then I'm more likely to be charged, in which case initial damage and WoD matters more than CC prowess as I'm not getting the buffs anyway.

So in that case, is the Rhino Flamer Squad better served by a Combi Flamer rather than a Cowboy Hand Flamer?

Well, it still goes either way, but the extra bolter shot in the first salvo is better than nothing and as I'm getting off one Flame (don't want to dual wield pistols as I lose the Power Sword) I'd rather have the S4 (which also benefits from being resolved at the same time as the squad's flamer, so more hits).

Dual pistols probably beat out a single combi if you're not taking a Power Weapon, but for my plan/build I prefer the latter. If you're taking 2, then HF, but if you only want one, my vote goes to the combi.

I think I'll be running my tacs as 2x5 in razorbacks, sergeant with combi weapon and power weapon, heavy flamer, 3 bolters. If I bump them to 10 man squads then I'll throw an extra hand flamer in each.

There is no point having a combi-weapon and a power weapon. You don't get a bonus from the pistol anyway, and a lightning claw costs same as the PW. Only downside is that the sword looks cooler. If you want a PW, then it should be combined with a pistol (probably a hand flamer in this case.)

This will be the core for my troops section. It will allow me to get in and have a nice WoD for the counter assault.


Troop
Tactical Squad x10
Hand Flamer
Lightning Claw
Flamer
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod

Tactical Squad x10
Hand Flamer
Lightning Claw
Flamer
Heavy Flamer
Drop Pod w/Locator Beacon

 Crimson wrote:
There is no point having a combi-weapon and a power weapon. You don't get a bonus from the pistol anyway, and a lightning claw costs same as the PW. Only downside is that the sword looks cooler. If you want a PW, then it should be combined with a pistol (probably a hand flamer in this case.)

Hand flamer and sword it is, then. What's your opinion on 5 ASM with 2 meltas, plasma cowboy sarge?

BaronVonSnakPak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
There is no point having a combi-weapon and a power weapon. You don't get a bonus from the pistol anyway, and a lightning claw costs same as the PW. Only downside is that the sword looks cooler. If you want a PW, then it should be combined with a pistol (probably a hand flamer in this case.)

Hand flamer and sword it is, then. What's your opinion on 5 ASM with 2 meltas, plasma cowboy sarge?

The Lightning Claw is statistically better with the re-rolls on wounds.

BaronVonSnakPak wrote:

Hand flamer and sword it is, then. What's your opinion on 5 ASM with 2 meltas, plasma cowboy sarge?

Double plasma is pretty expensive, with an added bonus of a chance to fry the wielder. Combi-melta might be a better choice to go with the meltas.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Falco wrote:

The Lightning Claw is statistically better with the re-rolls on wounds.

Well, that depends on the enemy. But most of the time that might indeed be true.

EDIT: Ok, it is not true most of the time, especially for non-veteran sergeant extra attack tends to be more valuable.

I have decided to make my Sergeant a Combi Flamer and Bolt Pistol. The Flamer portion of the bolted cn be used to blast before the charge or if I am charged myself. The HF and Flamer in the squad can put up the Wall of Death after that. I don't think spending the extra points on a power weapon is all that necessary. The squad is already high priced.

Does the hand flamer count as a pistol for CC? I thought the PW isn't a specialist weapon and would get the extra attack in CC.

gseed2p wrote:
Does the hand flamer count as a pistol for CC? I thought the PW isn't a specialist weapon and would get the extra attack in CC.

Yes it does. It is a pistol, after all.

Remember you can always combat squad once dropped. Another plan if going down this route is to take one of the following:
10 man with flamer and mm, sarge with handflamer and power maul. Split the squad so the mm stays in a stationary 5 man, hopefully behind/to the side of opponents vehicles due to the drop, giving a 12" melta range, whilst the sarge with flamer goes hunting ap4 or worse squads.
10 man with plasma cannon and plasma gun, sarge with combi-plasma. 5 man basic bolters can split off and create a screen for 5+ cover for the plas squad and act as a speed bump against assault. Plasma should be in rapid fire after the drop.

Although I do believe a full 10man with hf, flamer and combi-flamer will be most points efficient in most cases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As to using a rhino, i think that is best reserved for AM, not only is it free, but due to the ability to have 3 rapid fire/assault weapons (including combi), the disembark, shoot, turbo boost rhino in front, works better than tacs which require a heavy.

Just bought the new box and I'm building it right now.
I want to hear opinions on this idea:

Plasma Gun because 24" range and ability to soften heavy infantry (something that Tacs lack)
Heavy Flamer because.... Heavy Flamer

I'm pretty set on them (opinions still count), but my problem is with the Sergeant.
I play aggressive with my Tacticals so I would like to take advantage of the initiative boost and give my Sergeant something for cc (read: Power Sword).
This is why I'm against using combi-flamer, but having a Hand flamer would suit my plan. The squad will, however cost 200 points without transport. Seems a bit too much.

Another idea would be the cowboy flamers. They still give the extra attack, but don't really help you out in cc.

How do you feel about this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It should be mentioned that one of my plans for them would be to field only nine of them in a Pod with Inquisitor, leaving the Special weapon.

So can someone explain to me why I would want to take a Heavy Flamer, a Flamer, and a Combi-Flamer all in the same Tactical squad?

If I were to pod this group, each flamer would be firing separately which would have rapidly diminishing returns even on a large unit. Even with taking 2 flamer, 1 combi assault squad you still have to fire the combi separate, so it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Am I just not thinking this through properly? Does it work better on the table rather than on paper?

I personally run melta/combi-melta/heavy flamer in a pod. Works pretty well for me.

First Tac take as two combat squads with Dpod armed with deathwind
A) Dual flamer srg, flamer, hvy flamer , 2x bolter
B) 5x bolters


Second Tac squad with Dpod
C) dual inferno, melta, mlti melta, 2x bolter
D) 5x bolters

Use squad A to burn off bubble wrap with the deathwind launcher. If necessary squads B and D as well. Use squad C to pop armor. If the bubble wrap burns off early use squads B and D to engage other targets or to toss krak grenades at the denuded armor.

Red Marine wouldn't this require taking at least 3 pods? What goes in the third one?

 Paradigm wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
2x flamer pistols over combi flamer IMO

shooting twice each time vs one shot and done,

once you factor in the extra dice from wall of death over watch, IE two each time vs one once, its much better to have the two flame pistols

Fair points, I guess it's just preference. But my reasons for taking the Combi are:

1) Not bothered about Wall of Death. If I've been in range to use templates and haven't charged myself then something has already gone badly wrong.

I'll be using this set-up from a pod anyway so I won't be charging. I might survive to get charged on the odd occasion though. I guess it depends on what the tacts to accomplish hich will determine their loadout.

Uh...yeah. Why would you ever drop an even number of pods? Probably not a good alpha drop, but the question was, " what do you do with BA tac squads". On the upside it drops twenty MEQs on a flank popping armor and burning infantry.

Third pod? Something running clean up. Id say an HtH elite, like dc or a dread.

One way to mitigate the different types of flamer is placement. Put one flamer-carrier on each flank of the squad, and the third in the centre, and against good sized targets you should be able to fire in different directions to minimise overlap and hit maximum targets.

Wouldn't it be smart to Combat Squad them in the Drop Pod?
That way you can put the H-Flamer and Flamer more 'to the front' so they can put up a Wall of Death if you are charged.
And if you get charged, you can then make a counter-charge with the remaining Tacticals and Sgt.
If you do this, the Sgt might go better with a LC and Combi-Flamer.

Kangodo wrote:
Wouldn't it be smart to Combat Squad them in the Drop Pod?
That way you can put the H-Flamer and Flamer more 'to the front' so they can put up a Wall of Death if you are charged.
And if you get charged, you can then make a counter-charge with the remaining Tacticals and Sgt.
If you do this, the Sgt might go better with a LC and Combi-Flamer.

You could also combat squad them and hit two different units at the same time if you think they could kill a lot. Perhaps vs IG troops for example. I think it's difficult to judge here. We have a few different options and are also thinking about different situations for these options.

Melta, heavy flamer and combi-Melta plus either chainsword or power sword/LC depending on points.

I just feel like all flamers would provide less as each is shot afte the other.

 ultimentra wrote:
So can someone explain to me why I would want to take a Heavy Flamer, a Flamer, and a Combi-Flamer all in the same Tactical squad?

If I were to pod this group, each flamer would be firing separately which would have rapidly diminishing returns even on a large unit. Even with taking 2 flamer, 1 combi assault squad you still have to fire the combi separate, so it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Am I just not thinking this through properly? Does it work better on the table rather than on paper?

Also, are they relentless? Are they slow and purposelfull? Or do they have some special rule that lets them fire their heavy flamers after moving? They are heavy weapons correct? Because I feel im missing something,

JuniorRS13 wrote:
Melta, heavy flamer and combi-Melta plus either chainsword or power sword/LC depending on points.

I just feel like all flamers would provide less as each is shot afte the other.

If your going with a combi-gun, don't bother with the Power Sword, just take the LC as you won't get the extra attack anyway.
My preferred choice would still be a pistol (Hand Flamer or regular, Infernus pistols aren't worth it) and Power Sword.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 ultimentra wrote:
So can someone explain to me why I would want to take a Heavy Flamer, a Flamer, and a Combi-Flamer all in the same Tactical squad?

If I were to pod this group, each flamer would be firing separately which would have rapidly diminishing returns even on a large unit. Even with taking 2 flamer, 1 combi assault squad you still have to fire the combi separate, so it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. Am I just not thinking this through properly? Does it work better on the table rather than on paper?

Also, are they relentless? Are they slow and purposelfull? Or do they have some special rule that lets them fire their heavy flamers after moving? They are heavy weapons correct? Because I feel im missing something,

As strange as it may seem Heavy Flamers are actually assault weapons.