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Hey Dakka,

Long time blood angels player here. Just picked up my new codex and I am trying to figure out the best load out for my tac squads.

I am liking a couple of options, but wanted to see what everyone else is thinking. I will be running a drop pod army for this new book...mostly. I also have bikes with grav in the queue. Anyways...I am leaning towards option 1

Option 1
Sgt with power sword and combi melta
melta gun
Heavy Flamer
drop pod

Option 2
Sgt with dual hand flamers
flamer
heavy flamer
Drop pod

Combi-flamer, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, sometimes a Power Sword, all in pods or rhinos.

Burn it all!

I leave Melta duty to my Assault Squads, and tailor the Tacticals for anti-infanty duty.

2x flamer pistols over combi flamer IMO

shooting twice each time vs one shot and done,

once you factor in the extra dice from wall of death over watch, IE two each time vs one once, its much better to have the two flame pistols

POD it up and burn everything to the ground,

Paradimg has it right with focusing tac on anti infantry (maybe put M bombs on the srgt to give em a chance as for 5pts its worth it)

and keeping ASM with the meltas.

What I wouldn't give for melta on my ASMs...

Anyways, typically you want to focus on one role. And you have access to heavy flamers. How can you not *heavy flamers*!

 easysauce wrote:
2x flamer pistols over combi flamer IMO

shooting twice each time vs one shot and done,

once you factor in the extra dice from wall of death over watch, IE two each time vs one once, its much better to have the two flame pistols

Fair points, I guess it's just preference. But my reasons for taking the Combi are:

1) Not bothered about Wall of Death. If I've been in range to use templates and haven't charged myself then something has already gone badly wrong.

2) realistically, good firing a template weapon twice per game at most before you're in CC or dead, so the one shot nature is hardly a deal breaker. Outside of template range, the combi contributes more.

I'll agree that a pair of HF beats a single combi, but it's also twice the price, and stops you taking a power weapon.

I have also been thinking of taking the Promethium Relay Pipes, some Barricades and Tank Traps.
The extra 12" of Range could make them real dangerous to Infantry.

I think the combi-flamer, flamer, H. Flamer will be what i go with....but i am going to magnetize the Sgt so I can try out the pistol load out etc.

The Promethium Relay Pipes would be awesome with Baal Preds. That is, if they work with it.

 Paradigm wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
2x flamer pistols over combi flamer IMO

shooting twice each time vs one shot and done,

once you factor in the extra dice from wall of death over watch, IE two each time vs one once, its much better to have the two flame pistols

Fair points, I guess it's just preference. But my reasons for taking the Combi are:

1) Not bothered about Wall of Death. If I've been in range to use templates and haven't charged myself then something has already gone badly wrong. no drop pods? thats the best way to use flamers to ensure they get used. very likely you get charged after, this discourages that

2) realistically, good firing a template weapon twice per game at most before you're in CC or dead, so the one shot nature is hardly a deal breaker. Outside of template range, the combi contributes more. this and the cost is OBS a trade off, but the extra damage should be worth it to have one of these types of tac squads in a pod, and another with the combi/PW/ect combos and flamers

I'll agree that a pair of HF beats a single combi, but it's also twice the price, and stops you taking a power weapon.

yeah, you are right it is a trade off to a point, and I do think having one tac squad all flamed out, with one flamed + CC upgrades like you mention will round out nicely as at some point more templates is just over kill. Also my recommendations are assuming pods are used, so for other builds might not be optimal.

but I think you get a lot of use out of wall of death with drop pod units as they tend to be really up in their face, you also do generally get two shots with flamers from drop pods as you shoot them all once when you drop, then once more before you charge. you wont be 24" away enough to make one bolter shot worth more generally of course.

Since you generally get at least two turns to shoot the flamers, or at least one shoot one over watch, it will usually be four shots to one,

drop podding tac marines generally out combat most things, so your opponent will want its best CC unit to counter charge, 4D3 wall of death hits could easily make them fail a charge and let you charge a more cherry picked target next turn.

I'm studying a list for a match tomorrow evening
what i'm worried about is: the HF is heavy, right? can he shoot the turn he's dropped from pod?

Heavy flamer is assault


assault cannons are heavy.

every day is opposite land in the grim dark future

Man, I am just never going to make a guy with a Combi Flamer, am I? This thread has convinced me Cowboy Hand Flamer Sergeant is the way to go. Though I am going to stuff them in a Rhino since Fast is better than risking Incerceptor or Scatter blowing them off the board.

Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino with Extra Armour to make sure they are always on the move.

Flamer spam seems like the best approach - two hand flamers, a regular flamer and a heavy flamer. Concentrate them into a single combat squad, and drop them in.

If using razorbacks, then just 5 man squads with two hand flamers and a heavy flamer seems pretty good at crowd control.

Can you take a Combi Flamer in one hand and a Hand Flamer in the other? Versatility?

I still very much like the synergy of plasma and boltguns in terms of range. I feel that many flamer targets can be taken care of by punches to the head.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Can you take a Combi Flamer in one hand and a Hand Flamer in the other? Versatility?

You can do this, but I still like the option of a PW in the squad. It would be a shame to waste the S5 (and potential I5).

Personal choice for sure. I personally am going Hand flamer/PW, Flamer, H. Flamer. Fun times.

Double hand flamer also wins out in rule of cool. I feel it's rare that "rule of cool" units are also viable in comparison to their more strictly efficient counterparts, so that's something

I'd rather take (A) Hand Flamer + Power Sword or (B) Combi-flamer + Bolt Pistol depending on how many points I want to spend.

easysauce wrote:Heavy flamer is assault

O_O
/dance!!!
heavy flamer. children will love it!

casvalremdeikun wrote:Can you take a Combi Flamer in one hand and a Hand Flamer in the other? Versatility?

well... you *can* take both but you cannot use both in the same turn...
you can fire with only one weapon BUT if you got 2 pistol you can use both.

Ah, okay. Cowboy Hand Flamer it is. Gonna make an Assault Squad with two Meltaguns and Cowboy Inferno Pistol Sergeant too.

Edit: Wrong Board!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Ah, okay. Cowboy Hand Flamer it is. Gonna make an Assault Squad with two Meltaguns and Cowboy Inferno Pistol Sergeant too.

Honestly i'm not a fan of infernus pistol, because got veeeeeeeery little range...
at 6" is just a S8 AP1 weapon, and you need to be 3" to melta
a plasma pistol is S7 AP2 in 12" range and same cost than infernus

that's my two cent

ps i would use combi-melta for a melta assault squad, 'cause i like specialised squad

I tried running Seraphim with infernus pistols. On paper, 4 S8 AP1 shots were deadly. In practice, even with jump packs, 6" is too short and I would often get charged or have enemies run to just over 18" from me.

The one time they shone, they executed a Necron Lord point blank (he didn't have an invuln save upgrade and just ate 3 wounds), but he got back up and put himself in melee, and I was never able to strip that last wound again.

On a tactical squad, I don't see any realistic way that pistol will ever see use.

Mavnas wrote:
I tried running Seraphim with infernus pistols. On paper, 4 S8 AP1 shots were deadly. In practice, even with jump packs, 6" is too short and I would often get charged or have enemies run to just over 18" from me.

The one time they shone, they executed a Necron Lord point blank (he didn't have an invuln save upgrade and just ate 3 wounds), but he got back up and put himself in melee, and I was never able to strip that last wound again.

On a tactical squad, I don't see any realistic way that pistol will ever see use.

drop pods man.. you dont miss hap so can throw one on top of pretty much anything, and with the 6" disembark you can be 1" away from pretty much anything not surrounded by 6" of bubble wrap.

that being said, as you said, simply putting them on jump troops isnt enough, as their 6' inch range + 12 " move still suck when you only get the extra die at 3".

combi melta is likely better in most cases where you are not podding in

 easysauce wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
I tried running Seraphim with infernus pistols. On paper, 4 S8 AP1 shots were deadly. In practice, even with jump packs, 6" is too short and I would often get charged or have enemies run to just over 18" from me.

The one time they shone, they executed a Necron Lord point blank (he didn't have an invuln save upgrade and just ate 3 wounds), but he got back up and put himself in melee, and I was never able to strip that last wound again.

On a tactical squad, I don't see any realistic way that pistol will ever see use.

drop pods man.. you dont miss hap so can throw one on top of pretty much anything, and with the 6" disembark you can be 1" away from pretty much anything not surrounded by 6" of bubble wrap.

that being said, as you said, simply putting them on jump troops isnt enough, as their 6' inch range + 12 " move still suck when you only get the extra die at 3".

combi melta is likely better in most cases where you are not podding in

Any any kind of bubblewrap will defeat the 3" melta, but yeah, I could see pods doing better than the Jump Packs, but then you're really only getting one turn before you're footslogging with a 6" range gun, so I think the combi wins there too.

 PastelAvenger wrote:
Combi-Flamer, Flamer, Heavy Flamer in a Rhino with Extra Armour to make sure they are always on the move.

In a rhino with combi-flamer.

Here's a few of my thoughts/observations for running Tac marines in the BA dex.

A power sword/ hand flamer on the sarge seems a strong investment. With S5 and I5 on the charge he's a MEQ/GEQ killer. Probably best paired with F/HF for the rest of the squad. Transport in either a rhino or drop pod. Make sure you consider drop pods carefully as if you come up against an army that has all it's troops in transports you're going to struggle to do much with the flamers. If podding, I'd consider 2 Flamers Tacs paired with either drop pod assault marines with melta, or Melta Sternguard.

The Flamer Tacs in a rhino can do the drive by barbeque, remember you can still only move 6" and fire out the top hatch, being a fst vehicles doesn't help passenger shooting.

Another consideration is 5man tac squads with Plas, Combi plas in a las/plas razor back, lots of ap2 there. Could synergise well with the above stuff podding in as the target saturation would hopefully allow for your razor backs to survive long enough to get a couple of rounds of shooting in.

That's all I've got for now.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
Here's a few of my thoughts/observations for running Tac marines in the BA dex.

A power sword/ hand flamer on the sarge seems a strong investment. With S5 and I5 on the charge he's a MEQ/GEQ killer. Probably best paired with F/HF for the rest of the squad. Transport in either a rhino or drop pod. Make sure you consider drop pods carefully as if you come up against an army that has all it's troops in transports you're going to struggle to do much with the flamers. If podding, I'd consider 2 Flamers Tacs paired with either drop pod assault marines with melta, or Melta Sternguard.

The Flamer Tacs in a rhino can do the drive by barbeque, remember you can still only move 6" and fire out the top hatch, being a fst vehicles doesn't help passenger shooting.

Another consideration is 5man tac squads with Plas, Combi plas in a las/plas razor back, lots of ap2 there. Could synergise well with the above stuff podding in as the target saturation would hopefully allow for your razor backs to survive long enough to get a couple of rounds of shooting in.

That's all I've got for now.

D

Thats my thought for now as well, Drop in a couple of 5 man ASM squads with Double Melta and see how it works. Either pair the melta pods with a flamer pod or just bring in all the melta first and save the OS troops for later in the game drops. I also plan on podding in a couple of frag cannon furiosos. So thats 6 pods as of now (2 TAC, 2 ASM, 2 FCF) and I am still working out what to put in the 7th, I am thinking a Plasma gun Command Squad with a Libby (divination) or a 10 man DC Squad.

When you mix HF and flamers in a squad which are you firing first? Since kills with one means less hits for the other.

 Paradigm wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
2x flamer pistols over combi flamer IMO

shooting twice each time vs one shot and done,

once you factor in the extra dice from wall of death over watch, IE two each time vs one once, its much better to have the two flame pistols

Fair points, I guess it's just preference. But my reasons for taking the Combi are:

1) Not bothered about Wall of Death. If I've been in range to use templates and haven't charged myself then something has already gone badly wrong.

2) realistically, good firing a template weapon twice per game at most before you're in CC or dead, so the one shot nature is hardly a deal breaker. Outside of template range, the combi contributes more.

I'll agree that a pair of HF beats a single combi, but it's also twice the price, and stops you taking a power weapon.

1. If you're using a Combi-Flamer in the first place, you're wanting to be in charging distance. SO the extra overwatch and damage output is worth it.
2. A Bolter is hardly a contribution outside of template range because Bolters are very meh in the first place.
3. Power Weapons on Tactical Squads are a bad idea.