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 grendel083 wrote:
Starting the Shooting sequence by selecting a unit to shoot, isn't making a shooting attack. It will however lead to one.

Not true. Selecting a unit to shoot is step one of making a Shooting Attack. Use actual rules in your arguments please.

Now no rule says you MUST resolve the Order first. The sequence is players choice. But the shield must come before any attack in that phase.

No rule says that Orders must happen at the beginning of the Shooting Phase? Are you sure?

rigeld2 wrote:
No rule says that Orders must happen at the beginning of the Shooting Phase? Are you sure?

That's not what I said, sorry if I wasn't clear.

Nothing requires you to resolve an Order first, as in before the shield. Previous quotes and comments have shown we are both aware that both happen at the start of the shooting phase.

Now, if you issue the Take Aim order before the shield, have you chosen a sequence of events that will involve making an Attack before positioning the shield?

1) When does Sequencing grant us permission to choose which Rule to Resolve?
2) Can Sequencing be used to resolve an Order which contains a Shooting Attack before the Shield?

Answer:
1) Only when the two Rules in question lack explicit instructions within their timings
2) No, the Shield Rule is more explicit in it's timing and therefore permission to resolve a shooting order has not been granted

The word ANY is the key here

Regardless of how the attack is generated - its still an attack and this leads to - before ANY attacks...

so orders can come before the shield is declared but the second you move to the shooting sequence to complete the order it will trigger the ANY section of the shield and allow it to be positioned

What is the intent?

Did GW write the Guard codex so that the split fire order also allows them to ignore IK shields? Is that at all mentioned or hinted at? No.

This is hunting for gaps in the ruleset and is the worst kind of rules lawyering.

Not sure why this is being argued. As soon as a shooting attack is declared to be targeting a Knight, the Knight player can choose to reassign the Ion Shield to a new facing per the Knight's Ion Shield rule. Does the Take Aim order not generate a shooting attack on a declared target? If such target is an Imperial Knight, and it is the first shooting attack to target said Knight, then the Ion Shield rule is triggered.

What makes that unclear?

SJ

I agree with the shield goes first.

it has the wording any attack, not any attack during the shooting phase.

or at the beginning of the shooting phase, but any attack.

is it an attack?

then the knight can change the shield.

rigeld2 wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So you never complete a shooting attack?

As in, a shoting attack has not come before the shields were repositioned?

Your own text belies that as being possible, as you have admitted the order contains a shooting attack.

Do I have permission to execute (and resolve) an Order before the shield is re-positioned? Yes or No?

As long as they don't involve any Attack, yes.

But the moment you preform an attack before the shield, you've broken a rule.

The Order is not a shooting attack. Agreed? Simple questions, you don't need to assume where I'm going with this.
Assuming you agree (which you should, because it's a fact), I begin resolving the Order. I roll (and pass) my Leadership test. I then look at the next step - I have to make a Shooting Attack.
Please quote the rule allowing you to interrupt my Order. I'll wait.

No one's willing to do this? I'm sad.

The Order contains a Shooting Attack?
You say it yourself:
"I begin resolving the Order. I roll (and pass) my Leadership test. I then look at the next step - I have to make a Shooting Attack. "

If you know that, how can you decide to choose the Order before the shield?

Or as Jinx said:
2) Can Sequencing be used to resolve an Order which contains a Shooting Attack before the Shield?

rigeld2 wrote:
No one's willing to do this? I'm sad.

Why does it need to interrupt the order?

By resolving the order first, through player choice an attack has been made before the shield has been repositioned. A rule has been broken.

Two Rules Grendel083,
It also breaks the Sequencing Rule itself, for we only have permission to make such a choice when the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first.
Yes, the italic section was copy and pasted straight from Sequencing.

Indeed, the Shield must come before any order involving an Attack.
It's not a case of interrupting the Order, it must come before the Order.

 TheSilo wrote:
What is the intent?

Did GW write the Guard codex so that the split fire order also allows them to ignore IK shields? Is that at all mentioned or hinted at? No.

This is hunting for gaps in the ruleset and is the worst kind of rules lawyering.

100% agreed. Can't stand arguing this kind of stuff.