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I did a quick search on dakka and didn't find any related threads so here is the question and my reasoning.

1. Imperial Guard orders are issued and resolved at the start of the shoot phase (via the imperial guard codex under the voice of command special rule). So you issue the order, do what the order says if you passed leadership (usually shooting), then go on about the shoot phase as normal or issue more orders.

2. A Knight Titan's shields are set at the start of every shoot phase, until they are set they retain their previous facing.(I am only mostly sure on this as I do not have a knight codex, I do have a friend with one and he said this is how it works so if my info is wrong please correct me.)

3. The BRB tells us (under sequencing) that when two things happen at the same time then the player who's turn it is chooses in what order they go.(also only partially sure about this as I only have the 6th ed rule book on hand so if it has changed let me know.)

4. Both 1 and 2 happen at the same time and so by 3 the Imperial Guard player gets to choose if orders are issued before the shield gets to change facing. Meaning the Guard would issue orders then resolve shooting attacks as part of those orders before the knight can adjust it's shield.

If this is how it works then I could see CCS jumping out of Vendettas or Valkyries as becoming really good knight hunters, same with Scion command squads, But that kind of discussion is for 40k Tactics.
So is this how it actually works or did I miss something?

My understanding of it though would be:

issue orders at start of phase
knight adjusts shields at start of phase
squad shoots "mid phase" (if that makes sense).

Except squad shoots when the order is issued/resolved.

IE - orders happen (including shooting), then regular shooting happens.

Except several orders state that the unit must make an immediate shooting attack.

My bad, thats why I dont post in ymdc much

So just to clarify, you can shoot before the shields go up, but you CAN'T do an order, have them fire before the shooting phase, then have them fire AGAIN during the actual shooting phase. Right?

Zeeth wrote:
So just to clarify, you can shoot before the shields go up, but you CAN'T do an order, have them fire before the shooting phase, then have them fire AGAIN during the actual shooting phase. Right?

You can give an order and as part of the order, shoot the Knight before he can change the facing on the shield.

rigeld2 wrote:

Zeeth wrote:
So just to clarify, you can shoot before the shields go up, but you CAN'T do an order, have them fire before the shooting phase, then have them fire AGAIN during the actual shooting phase. Right?

You can give an order and as part of the order, shoot the Knight before he can change the facing on the shield.

But you can't make a second shooting attack during the shooting phase? I understood it as this but I just wanted clarification.

"Before any Attacks are carried out" is the wording from the shield rules.

Additionally, the shield is always active. It doesn't cease at the start of the shooting phase, there is no duration, it simply has its facing changed. EDIT: scrap that, misread. Previous point is still valid however

What kinda IG commander are you?

Just throw more bodies from two sides so they can only shield one

Zeeth wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Zeeth wrote:
So just to clarify, you can shoot before the shields go up, but you CAN'T do an order, have them fire before the shooting phase, then have them fire AGAIN during the actual shooting phase. Right?

You can give an order and as part of the order, shoot the Knight before he can change the facing on the shield.

But you can't make a second shooting attack during the shooting phase? I understood it as this but I just wanted clarification.

The ordered unit can't because that's part of the orders.

grendel083 wrote:"Before any Attacks are carried out" is the wording from the shield rules.

Additionally, the shield is always active. It doesn't cease at the start of the shooting phase, there is no duration, it simply has its facing changed. EDIT: scrap that, misread. Previous point is still valid however

Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

If the orders are occurring in the Shooting phase, the Ion Shield facing may still occur first due to being triggered as soon as the first unit targets the Knights in the Shooting phase. However, if the orders occur immediately after a Movement yet before Shooting, then yes, an argument can be made that the Knight's Ion Shield is adjusted later.

I'd have to check both rules' wording to be sure.

SJ

rigeld2 wrote:
Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

Agreed.

Orders happen at the start of shooting and shields happen at the start of shooting. Orders take precedence. Order calls for an immediate shooting attack. This shooting attack, however, is a separate action from the order, meaning that the shields, which were tied with the order in terms of precedence, happen now. Then, immediately after all previously cued items have occurred, you get the shooting.

It's not so much that Orders take precedence, but the Guard player chooses the order of events.

Choosing to resolve an Order involving a shooting attack before the Shield will lead to a rule being broken. The only legal option is to resolve the shield first.

 grendel083 wrote:
Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

This would be my take on it as well.

Shooting attacks from Orders are still shooting attacks. So the shield happens first.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

Agreed.

Orders happen at the start of shooting and shields happen at the start of shooting. Orders take precedence. Order calls for an immediate shooting attack. This shooting attack, however, is a separate action from the order, meaning that the shields, which were tied with the order in terms of precedence, happen now. Then, immediately after all previously cued items have occurred, you get the shooting.

The underlined is incorrect and I think where the confusion is.
Yes, the order requires a Shooting Attack - but it's not a separate action. By resolving the shooting attack, you're simply fulfilling the order. What's stopping the Order from resolving before the shield?

rigeld2 wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

Agreed.

Orders happen at the start of shooting and shields happen at the start of shooting. Orders take precedence. Order calls for an immediate shooting attack. This shooting attack, however, is a separate action from the order, meaning that the shields, which were tied with the order in terms of precedence, happen now. Then, immediately after all previously cued items have occurred, you get the shooting.

The underlined is incorrect and I think where the confusion is.
Yes, the order requires a Shooting Attack - but it's not a separate action. By resolving the shooting attack, you're simply fulfilling the order. What's stopping the Order from resolving before the shield?

The fact that the Ion Shield says its done before shooting attacks.

grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

I thought there would be something preventing it I just didn't know what, Thanks for pointing it out.

Desubot wrote:What kinda IG commander are you?

Just throw more bodies from two sides so they can only shield one

Generally I use lots of tanks with some mech vets, so it is kind of difficult to flank with the slow Russes and the mech vets usually have their chimera blown up and all die before they can do anything. Luckily I don't fight it that often.

rigeld2 wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Orders are also done before Attacks are carried out.
It just happens that some Orders have Shooting Attacks.

Orders are simply "at the start of the shooting phase".

Shields are "at the start of the shooting phase, before any Attacks are carried out".

Some orders involve shooting attacks. It's not just a case of order of events, if you carry out a shooting attack you've broken the shield rule.

Agreed.

Orders happen at the start of shooting and shields happen at the start of shooting. Orders take precedence. Order calls for an immediate shooting attack. This shooting attack, however, is a separate action from the order, meaning that the shields, which were tied with the order in terms of precedence, happen now. Then, immediately after all previously cued items have occurred, you get the shooting.

The underlined is incorrect and I think where the confusion is.
Yes, the order requires a Shooting Attack - but it's not a separate action. By resolving the shooting attack, you're simply fulfilling the order. What's stopping the Order from resolving before the shield?

That you must break no rule, and you MUST change the shield before ANY attacks are made. If you carry out an attack, have you compied with this sequencing requirement?

I would like to point out that this is only in the case where the Knight wishes to "change facing", from being out-maneuvered.

He still has the shield facing in the direction he picked (at the start of the game/last shooting phase)

The rule would only cover "repositioning".
To which i agree with Nos's statement above.

So how is an Order a Shooting Attack?
I'm not breaking a rule. I'm doing an Order before the Shield is re-positioned.

The order contains within it a requirement for the unit to make a shooting attack. Agreed?

Have you then completed an attack before repositioning the shields?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
The order contains within it a requirement for the unit to make a shooting attack. Agreed?

Have you then completed an attack before repositioning the shields?

No. I've completed an Order. Note that while the Order may include a shooting attack, it's the Order that's being resolved.

So you never complete a shooting attack?

As in, a shoting attack has not come before the shields were repositioned?

Your own text belies that as being possible, as you have admitted the order contains a shooting attack.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So you never complete a shooting attack?

As in, a shoting attack has not come before the shields were repositioned?

Your own text belies that as being possible, as you have admitted the order contains a shooting attack.

Do I have permission to execute (and resolve) an Order before the shield is re-positioned? Yes or No?

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So you never complete a shooting attack?

As in, a shoting attack has not come before the shields were repositioned?

Your own text belies that as being possible, as you have admitted the order contains a shooting attack.

Do I have permission to execute (and resolve) an Order before the shield is re-positioned? Yes or No?

As long as they don't involve any Attack, yes.

But the moment you preform an attack before the shield, you've broken a rule.

I am entirely unsure you do.
When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order.
- Sequencing

As the Rule regarding the Knights Shields contains instructions informing us that it is resolved prior to any shooting attacks, it contains wording explicit to which of the two Rules are to be resolved first. As sequencing only grants us permission to choose a Rule to resolve when the timing involved is identical, I have no problem stating that this rule is not in play for this specific situation. We are informed that the Shield is resolved before any Shooting Attack, so trying to resolve a Rule which contains a Shooting Attack prior to this on the grounds of 'sequencing' has actually broken two rules... the Shield one, and the Sequencing one.

 grendel083 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
So you never complete a shooting attack?

As in, a shoting attack has not come before the shields were repositioned?

Your own text belies that as being possible, as you have admitted the order contains a shooting attack.

Do I have permission to execute (and resolve) an Order before the shield is re-positioned? Yes or No?

As long as they don't involve any Attack, yes.

But the moment you preform an attack before the shield, you've broken a rule.

The Order is not a shooting attack. Agreed? Simple questions, you don't need to assume where I'm going with this.
Assuming you agree (which you should, because it's a fact), I begin resolving the Order. I roll (and pass) my Leadership test. I then look at the next step - I have to make a Shooting Attack.
Please quote the rule allowing you to interrupt my Order. I'll wait.

Starting the Shooting sequence by selecting a unit to shoot, isn't making a shooting attack. It will however lead to one.

Interceptor is not a shooting attack. But it involves one.

An order is not a shooting attack. But many of them will lead to one.

Take Aim wrote:The Ordered Unit must make a Shooting Attack

The shield rules are clear. It's resolved before an attack (any Attack, not just shooting) at the start of the shooting phase.

Now no rule says you MUST resolve the Order first. The sequence is players choice. But the shield must come before any attack in that phase.

The "Take Aim" Order will undeniably involve an attack.

Have you chosen a sequence of events that will involve resolving an Attack before re-positioning the shield? If yes, then you're broken a rule.