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Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






Kangodo wrote:
...desecrate the Death Company with stuff like Boltguns.


I think the quoted phrase above is what's causing the problem here.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Kangodo wrote:
I would run 9 Tactical Marines with a character in a Drop Pod if you want Bolters.



Why would anyone actually WANT bolters, though?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
 Crazyterran wrote:
Power fist with furious charge is S9 AP2, noobs. (4*2)+1. The order of operations in the real world and in 40k!

The bolter being fire means you cannot charge as well, so you lose all the death companies close combat attacks if you fire even a single bolter. And if you are not close enough to charge, why aren't you running!?


Death Company are relentless noob, meaning they can shoot rapid fire guns & assault. See? Unnecessary name calling does nothing to strengthen your point after all.

I'd run Bolters on Death Company only if you include a few Power Fists. No matter the amount or quality, sometimes AP - isn't enough to kill a unit with any saves worth a dam. But throw in a few Fists, your unit will be much better at killing 3+/2+ saves because the extra saves your forcing while the Fists work at full efficiency (They don't get +1 attack for the Pistol).

Also, isn't a Bolter shot going to have the exact same chance to kill a Marine as a punch? Bolter hit's on 3's, wounds on 4's, he gets 3+ Sv. Punch hit's on 4's, wounds on 3's, he gets 3+ Sv. But since you get two Bolter shots, isn't that preferable?


One, you are too slow, better luck next time, champ.

Two, you are not always fighting marines, and wounding on twos is a hell of a lot better than the bolters wounding on 3s. Or, if they have lower WS, you are hitting on 3s. And, the close combat attack is a gift that gives on the second round of combat and on your opponents turn.

Not to mention the risk of shooting yourself out of a close charge. Or the fact that cc meshes well with a sanguinary priest, chaplain, or any other marine character.


No, your not always fighting Marines, but in that instance Bolters are better. If your fighting GEQ, you're AP 5 and let's be fair, those GEQ will crumble extra attack or no. I can't think of more then 5 T3 units that would cause any config or Death Company any problems. Inquisitorial Conclave, maybe Genestealers? So that is a moot point. Shooting yourself out of charge range is a danger, but so is charging into an almost full unit of Genestealers. And your point about adding characters that increase combat prowess, then of course you would take pistols. That's just common sense.


I can shoot the genestealers with a.... different squad! Like one designed for shooting.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/31 15:21:36


 
   
Made in ca
Junior Officer with Laspistol





London, Ontario

Well, that's an unexpected degree of hatred for what amounts to a wash in most assaults.

I'd take pistols for Power Weapons, the extra "Powered" attack is worth doing. I'd go boltguns with Fists, as there's no reason not to. Relentless Rapid Fire and a Specialist Weapon mean you're getting the most out of your model.

I personally like the increased flexibility that bolters offer, instead of pistol and CCW. I have run a 6 man squad for a while, 3x Bolter, 2x Fist + Bolter, 1x Power Sword + Pistol. I intend to pull the packs off of them, put Jump Packs on, and add another Bolter duder and a Power Axe + Pistol guy.

They're going to jump along with a pair of Fast Vindicators. The handful of long range bolters will hopefully clear off a single survivor from a Demo Shell, and if anything gets close to the Vindis, the DC will shoot and punch them to death.

For myself, the "chumps" in the squad are better off with bolters, so that they can shoot someone in the turns they can't punch someone in the face. I don't understand the vehemence that people are responding to this notion with... but it is a good setup for the way I play.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I agree that it probably won't make much of a difference over 20 games or so.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




People are picturing the early game but at the end things can break down and remnants left scattered and out of assault. Some games are close enough that it can literally come down to those few bolter shots. Other times units need softened as much as possible by anything available. And if not they are bullet catchers that fight slightly worse. Bottom line is they're free and won't significantly impact the units combat abilities but having one more bit of ranged fire might make the difference.

I'd personally run 10 with 2 fists 5 bolters. If the match looks like they won't be profitable put those models out front.
   
Made in gb
Pious Palatine






Martel732 wrote:
Also, try a level 2 sanguinary libby in with DC. It worked great my first time out. All those close range powers are perfect for DC. You can get a 5++ save or +1 attack from that tree. And at worst, you quicken a power fist DC guy. Extra fisting! You can also cause many xenos to run off the board with fear the darkness.


I think The Quickening only works for the Librarian or a friendly character model, and since DC don't have Characters they'll be no extra fisting.
However the DC squad from Deathstrom does have a sergeant equivalent with a hammer, so potential extra hammer time, but that squad's load out is all over the shop and I'm not sure I would run it.

D
   
Made in es
Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator





Bilbao

A squad of 10 DC, 5 bolters (2 PF) and 5 BP/CCW can handle (and murder) a variety of threats whenever things don“t go as expected. Sometimes versatility can be the key of success, sometimes not. Hard to tell whats better for every game and opponent. I like DC not being too one dimensional.

3000 points
1500 points 
   
Made in th
Longtime Dakkanaut




Macclesfield, UK

I only run bolters on my specilist weapon guys when it comes to DC. We are talking about bolters here which is the basic gun for your now troop choice tacticals. Let them do the bolter fire, also we can always include sternguard if we want any extra special bolters.

The extra bolter shots we are talking about will probably on average kill 1-2 extra guys. I think the extra attacks are worth it to be honest. We are Blood Angels and our army is supposed to be about the close assault. Not to mention those extra close combat attacks are the attrition you need when taking on 2+ saves like Terminators.
   
Made in fi
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine





Martel732 wrote:
Also, try a level 2 sanguinary libby in with DC. It worked great my first time out. All those close range powers are perfect for DC. You can get a 5++ save or +1 attack from that tree. And at worst, you quicken a power fist DC guy. Extra fisting! You can also cause many xenos to run off the board with fear the darkness.


I was hyped over the new psychic powers mainly because of this. However, the Quickening states that the target must be either the Psyker himself or a friendly character. So no DC buffing for us.
The other two usable powers work well, tough.

4000p
1500p

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