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Most Space Marine Chapters are, basically, techno-barbarians living on planets that don't possess digital watches and still think fire is a pretty neat idea.

 Psienesis wrote:
Most Space Marine Chapters are, basically, techno-barbarians living on planets that don't possess digital watches and still think fire is a pretty neat idea.

That really matters on the chapter though. If I remember right, the ultramarines recruit from noble houses, the imperial fists recruit from hiveworlds quite often. many Space marine chapters recruit from city worlds or knight worlds.

That has been proven false Psienesis sorry

Most space marine chapters are fleet based and recruit from many worlds. And not all of them are like that.

It is a myth that they pick up recruits from non-city worlds. Infact the criteria for a space marine is one who pasts the test and presents themselves to the chapter.

Hive Worlds are still fairly low-tech for 99% of the population. Unless you're the wealthiest of the wealthy, the only gene-screening you're getting is when the Arbites and the Sisters show up with a kill-squad to make sure your genes are still sufficiently "human" to avoid purging you on the spot.

The Fists, specifically, are recruiting from those on a Hive World finding regular combat experience... so most-likely the under-Hive, especially on both Terra and Necromunda. Inwit is a world poorly-classified, noted as having ice-tribes but also ice-hives, which might make it a Hive World, or might make it a Feral World with a Hive World's population.

Most space marine chapters are fleet based and recruit from many worlds

Ehm, no, the vast minority are fleet-based. Most have a world, or a chain of worlds, they recruit from, using one as a center of power for the Chapter.

 Psienesis wrote:
Hive Worlds are still fairly low-tech for 99% of the population. Unless you're the wealthiest of the wealthy, the only gene-screening you're getting is when the Arbites and the Sisters show up with a kill-squad to make sure your genes are still sufficiently "human" to avoid purging you on the spot.

The Fists, specifically, are recruiting from those on a Hive World finding regular combat experience... so most-likely the under-Hive, especially on both Terra and Necromunda. Inwit is a world poorly-classified, noted as having ice-tribes but also ice-hives, which might make it a Hive World, or might make it a Feral World with a Hive World's population.

Most space marine chapters are fleet based and recruit from many worlds

Ehm, no, the vast minority are fleet-based. Most have a world, or a chain of worlds, they recruit from, using one as a center of power for the Chapter.

Wait can you post a source for that? For me to reference? I didn't know that.

You would think ever since they are space marines they would prefer to be fleet based.
i remember that the are many levels to a hive. And that there are business districts and workering areas and etc. And that as long as you stay in the safe parts you should be okay. The 1% of the population that has all the high high tech stuff are nobles.

And that its actually seperated into a tier system very similar to the way it was for the dark ages.

IMO everything in the lore about Space Marines is stupid. They're very poorly implemented.

However, this is 40k - so they get a pass.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
IMO everything in the lore about Space Marines is stupid. They're very poorly implemented.

However, this is 40k - so they get a pass.

Eh there is still alot to complain about though.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
IMO everything in the lore about Space Marines is stupid. They're very poorly implemented.

However, this is 40k - so they get a pass.

Eh there is still alot to complain about though.

If you try to make sense out of 40k, every faction disintegrates into meaningless derpage.

Wait can you post a source for that? For me to reference? I didn't know that.

Source for what? The bit about Hive Worlds? You explained it yourself... it's a tiered structure reminiscent of the Dark Ages. Wealthy people on top, descending down to the desperately poor and destitute at the bottom, who might be living in a world of perpetual darkness amidst toxic spills and waste run-off. 40K, as a setting, isn't particularly high-tech for the vast majority of its population. Even leaving Feral Worlds aside for the moment, most people on Imperial Worlds live pretty much like we did in the Western World in the 1980s (especially if you lived in Thatcher's Britain), with the occasional visitation (like, once a century, if that frequently) of a space-ship from offworld. Hives? The only thing high-tech about a Hive for most of its populace is the fact you live inside a giant, man-made construction. Otherwise, you're working a 9-to-5 for very little money and a daily food ration.

The bit about the Imperial Fists? It's basically encapsulated on their Lexicanum entries, but also gathered from the fact that Terra is their Homeworld but they also recruit from Necromunda and Inwit... which aren't even in the Sol system.

There is nothing wrong IMO. Only the Strongest and the most hardened will be able to survive this expensive, time consuming ritual. Resources that are stretched thin.

The imperium cannot afford to waste time. For the SM are needed everywhere.

It might seem harsh, but it is the only way

Oh yes, the way that Space Marines are recruited is kind of dumb. They claim to take from the best, but they really don't. They take from the best out of those that are male, generically compatible, of the right age, and of the right place and the right time, whom are lucky enough not to die during the unnecessarily deadly training, meaning a lot of highly qualified candidates get skipped over for various reasons, and if those reasons did not make Space Marines skip over them, Space Marines would actually be better and more skilled than they are now.

GW's authors think they sound cool though so that's what they do.

It was written and has been embellished to appeal to the young males fantasy of being chosen over everyone of his peers for something awesome..and feeds into the superhero outsider fantasy of that impulse..while dipping into warrior cultures from actual history..Spartans..Zulu..etc
And yes its dumb..clumsy..wasteful and not really suitable for any long term attrition warfare..(which they always assert is not what the astartes are for..but in BL seem to do..all the time.)
Its..grim..its dark..its warhammer.
And has gotten more that way as the years go by.

Hell there was a time when the ultra marines had a half eldar librarian...lol

Someone alredy pointed it but i think i can emmend:

Each chapter have tis own culture, coming from a specific part of the galaxy. With this culture comes tactics preferences, markings, terms and practicing rituals. Recruitment is a ritual, so it is not impossible for some chapters to actually use something like that (or better stuff).

Yet, a lot of technology is just "lost", it maybe even be available, but people just dont know how it work. Gene scans area available? Hell they could even be total health stations (like the one from start trekk), but all their users know is how to point the stuff, wait the red light go "on" and scream "mutation" while puting the flamer to work...

Think about it: if you could gene scan and select candidates like that, why not also make assisted reproduction? Why not clone the best soldiers around? Breeding programs could also be worthwhile...


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 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
Hell there was a time when the ultra marines had a half eldar librarian...lol

And you had dwarfs in space... Should have been good times.

 Melissia wrote:
Oh yes, the way that Space Marines are recruited is kind of dumb. They claim to take from the best, but they really don't. They take from the best out of those that are male, generically compatible, of the right age, and of the right place and the right time, whom are lucky enough not to die during the unnecessarily deadly training, meaning a lot of highly qualified candidates get skipped over for various reasons, and if those reasons did not make Space Marines skip over them, Space Marines would actually be better and more skilled than they are now.

GW's authors think they sound cool though so that's what they do.

I agree with you that it is obvious an self insertion fantasy but honestly it seems like something that started out as a dark and disturbing idea (a young boy in a good mental and physical state who manages to survive a series of cruel and unusual rituals is rewarded with being turned into a monstrous war machine through bizarre and arcane sciences)

Then it was GW-ifiedTM.

Also part of the reason why the HH Legions were so big was because they eschewed most of these ridiculous practices and made you a full SM almost immediately.

Basically everything wrong with the SM chapters is rectified by the Legions.

The whole idea of recruiting children as Space Marines is idiotic anyways. It makes no sense from a logical viewpoint. As Space Marines, you would want the very best and strongest specimens of a planet. Children are not strong, you can not test them to the same extent as you could an adult. Children are also still in development, and there is no way to tell how they will develop. Therefore there is no way to ensure you actually get the most suitable recruits.
The Space Wolves recruit in a much more logical way by only recruiting from the best warriors on their planet that have proven themselves in battle. That means that a SW recruits are already much more capable than those of other chapters even before they became Space Marines. No wonder the SW are marines+1

You mean the best young adult warriors?

Its always been a thing that Space Marines choose young adults because the body still has to be going through puberty to accept the implants.

 Wyzilla wrote:
What the hell is wrong with the current process?

Agreed

According to the game called Chapter Master a thousand Recruits are recruited from one world every year. But very few recruits even become nephoytes, only 20% make it to neophyte so around 20-30 nephoytes are successfully train in 4 years.

This is a constant process so in eight years there are around 2000 recruits but only 20% of that are successfully made into space marines.

It is either that space marines have gotten sloppier with their recruiting of nephoytes

But this is only my run through of Games like Chapter Master and some vague references in the horus heresy and space marine books.

It could be a lot more successful and better if they rediscovered the way they did it back during the crusades/ Or better yet they put their chapter at around 10,000 instead of a thousand.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The Space Wolves recruit in a much more logical way by only recruiting from the best warriors on their planet that have proven themselves in battle. That means that a SW recruits are already much more capable than those of other chapters even before they became Space Marines. No wonder the SW are marines+1

Even SW recruit boys entering the puberty... Its only that life in Fenris is cruel and mercyless to the point of making all the selection by itself...


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 Asherian Command wrote:
It could be a lot more successful and better if they rediscovered the way they did it back during the crusades/ Or better yet they put their chapter at around 10,000 instead of a thousand.

So they could hold enough power to destroy the galaxy by themselves? The limit in numbers is not a logistical thing, it have the good reason of evictin the Horus Heresy II...

They apparently do the same thing they have done at the crusades, its only the geneseeds they have wich bring trouble. See the Ultramarines (and Sucessors), before the Tyranid wars, they where practically a dozen Legions, filled with recruits...

One thing to keep in mind is that DH confirms virtually all members of the Imperium live pathetically short lives.

25 is described as being "Ancient one" on most planets, even Forge Worlds.

Judging by that a person just entering puberty is probably the peak of human life (as they will die a horrible death/sickness/injury around 20 or less) by Imperium standards.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
One thing to keep in mind is that DH confirms virtually all members of the Imperium live pathetically short lives.

25 is described as being "Ancient one" on most planets, even Forge Worlds.

Judging by that a person just entering puberty is probably the peak of human life (as they will die a horrible death/sickness/injury around 20 or less) by Imperium standards.

Umm...

Most Tech priests lives are artificially increased to hundreds if not a thousand years.

Nobles also have this as well.

Also could you cite that 25 years thing. For a normal worker in the forges. Yes definitely.

So they could hold enough power to destroy the galaxy by themselves? The limit in numbers is not a logistical thing, it have the good reason of evictin the Horus Heresy II...

Well logistically it is impossible to seperate an entire army of adeptus astartes. A thousand is really small 200k thats huge. But ten thousand is barely even a legion. The Smallest legion the Thousand sons were around 10k

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The whole idea of recruiting children as Space Marines is idiotic anyways. It makes no sense from a logical viewpoint. As Space Marines, you would want the very best and strongest specimens of a planet. Children are not strong, you can not test them to the same extent as you could an adult. Children are also still in development, and there is no way to tell how they will develop. Therefore there is no way to ensure you actually get the most suitable recruits.
The Space Wolves recruit in a much more logical way by only recruiting from the best warriors on their planet that have proven themselves in battle. That means that a SW recruits are already much more capable than those of other chapters even before they became Space Marines. No wonder the SW are marines+1

They NEED children and teens because they need to hitch a ride onto the puberty of the male body while it's still growing for the augmentations to take effect.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The whole idea of recruiting children as Space Marines is idiotic anyways. It makes no sense from a logical viewpoint. As Space Marines, you would want the very best and strongest specimens of a planet. Children are not strong, you can not test them to the same extent as you could an adult. Children are also still in development, and there is no way to tell how they will develop. Therefore there is no way to ensure you actually get the most suitable recruits.
The Space Wolves recruit in a much more logical way by only recruiting from the best warriors on their planet that have proven themselves in battle. That means that a SW recruits are already much more capable than those of other chapters even before they became Space Marines. No wonder the SW are marines+1

They NEED children and teens because they need to hitch a ride onto the puberty of the male body while it's still growing for the augmentations to take effect.

Correct 14 year olds or prepubescent teens are often the targets of space marines recruitment.

That whole BS about recruited from the best warriors is untrue.

They are recruited so that space marine genes and physiology is implanted to allow the human body to develop into a space marine. The space marine is basically learning while this technology is put on him, learning tactics and discipline and being educated of the gaxaly and history of the chapter.

Basically when you become a space marine you are trained as knight and thus you are given land and titles and superior education. Being educated to such a degree that makes mockery of all educational forms in existance.

The implantation process takes 4 years. But a space marine is not on an operational table for 4 years straight, (Except for the blood angels and successors who do it rather uniquely)

Space marines go through training and learning. And appliance. Once the tests are complete they must go through more tests to see if they are capable to survive with their new skills but they aren't just dropped and told to run they have a few years to adjust to their new settings finally at the age 20 they are able to join the neophyte stage.

Dark Heresy has a set of rolls for each home world, adding 1d10 to each of these numbers to determine age-- this is an optional thing.

For Feral Worlds, Warrior begins at 15 (keep in mind, add +1d10 to each of these numbers), Old One begins at 25. For Hive Worlds, Nipper is 15, Adult is 25, Old Timer is 35. on an Imperial World, the ages are 20 for "stripling", 30 for "mature", 40 for "veteran". Voidborn is 15, 20, and 50.

Keep in mind, these aren't necessarily elderly ages, as noted by the "veteran" name for Imperial Worlds.

This is page 30 of the core rulebook. I see no stats for Forge Worlds or the others in Inquisitor's Handbook.

 Melissia wrote:
Dark Heresy has a set of rolls for each home world, adding 1d10 to each of these numbers to determine age-- this is an optional thing.

For Feral Worlds, Warrior begins at 15 (keep in mind, add +1d10 to each of these numbers), Old One begins at 25. For Hive Worlds, Nipper is 15, Adult is 25, Old Timer is 35. on an Imperial World, the ages are 20 for "stripling", 30 for "mature", 40 for "veteran". Voidborn is 15, 20, and 50.

Keep in mind, these aren't necessarily elderly ages, as noted by the "veteran" name for Imperial Worlds.

This is page 30 of the core rulebook. I see no stats for Forge Worlds or the others in Inquisitor's Handbook.

Interesting. Is that lifespan or age of recruitment for space marines.

(OH wait looking back that is what it looks like is implied)

I am interested in seeing how much time is taken in training a Space Marine to be a Space Marine.

 Melissia wrote:
Dark Heresy has a set of rolls for each home world, adding 1d10 to each of these numbers to determine age-- this is an optional thing.

For Feral Worlds, Warrior begins at 15 (keep in mind, add +1d10 to each of these numbers), Old One begins at 25. For Hive Worlds, Nipper is 15, Adult is 25, Old Timer is 35. on an Imperial World, the ages are 20 for "stripling", 30 for "mature", 40 for "veteran". Voidborn is 15, 20, and 50.

Keep in mind, these aren't necessarily elderly ages, as noted by the "veteran" name for Imperial Worlds.

This is page 30 of the core rulebook. I see no stats for Forge Worlds or the others in Inquisitor's Handbook.

I imagine those ages particularly with hive worlds, are going to apply more to the lower classes then anything. Life expectancy has always struck me as being, like everything else in the IoM as being extremely stratified

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Dark Heresy has a set of rolls for each home world, adding 1d10 to each of these numbers to determine age-- this is an optional thing.

For Feral Worlds, Warrior begins at 15 (keep in mind, add +1d10 to each of these numbers), Old One begins at 25. For Hive Worlds, Nipper is 15, Adult is 25, Old Timer is 35. on an Imperial World, the ages are 20 for "stripling", 30 for "mature", 40 for "veteran". Voidborn is 15, 20, and 50.

Keep in mind, these aren't necessarily elderly ages, as noted by the "veteran" name for Imperial Worlds.

This is page 30 of the core rulebook. I see no stats for Forge Worlds or the others in Inquisitor's Handbook.

I imagine those ages particularly with hive worlds, are going to apply more to the lower classes then anything. Life expectancy has always struck me as being, like everything else in the IoM as being extremely stratified

Matters where you are in the class system in the imperium.

Nobles live for a few hundred years, middle class live for quite a while.

You don't even have to test the children, test the parents. Breed them like race horses and have who bloodlines who have given dozens of children to a chapter.

 Mr Nobody wrote:
You don't even have to test the children, test the parents. Breed them like race horses and have who bloodlines who have given dozens of children to a chapter.

Well the tests are more of willpower and skill.

There are no astartes with mental issues that plague modern day society.

I think testing them is helpful I think they just need to decrease their standards and just recruit a large amount of men.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
You don't even have to test the children, test the parents. Breed them like race horses and have who bloodlines who have given dozens of children to a chapter.

Well the tests are more of willpower and skill.

There are no astartes with mental issues that plague modern day society.

I think testing them is helpful I think they just need to decrease their standards and just recruit a large amount of men.

generally speaking the exact standards vary from chapter to chapter. so thats a hard statement to make.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:
You don't even have to test the children, test the parents. Breed them like race horses and have who bloodlines who have given dozens of children to a chapter.

Well the tests are more of willpower and skill.

There are no astartes with mental issues that plague modern day society.

I think testing them is helpful I think they just need to decrease their standards and just recruit a large amount of men.

generally speaking the exact standards vary from chapter to chapter. so thats a hard statement to make.

Most the tests are based on that. The only ones that are outside of strength was knowledge from the Blood Ravens.