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blaktoof wrote:
and yet again you failed to prove anything or show any actual point.

I quoted the rule.

in a unit with 1 ic and other non IC models, if the non ic models are dead the IC is now a model of 1.

Correct.

nothing prevents the rule from applying in an unit where there are more than 1 IC models, and all other models are dead.

Um. Yes there is. Are all the other models in the unit dead? Demonstrably no. The rule doesn't exempt other ICs from counting. You're assuming it does and have refused to show a rule explaining why.

all models other than IC models dead in a unit? then the IC remain in an unit.

...
This sentence literally contradicts what you've been saying. What are you actually arguing happens when there are 5 C: SM models with 2 C: BA ICs joined and all the C: SM models have a heart attack and die?

You have demonstrably made up restrictions that are not written, in essence making up rules. Please do the proper thing and admit your a liar.

Quote the post where I've made anything up. And I've been nothing but polite to you, I'd appreciate the same courtesy back.

blaktoof wrote:
and yet again you failed to prove anything or show any actual point.

in a unit with 1 ic and other non IC models, if the non ic models are dead the IC is now a model of 1.

nothing prevents the rule from applying in an unit where there are more than 1 IC models, and all other models are dead.

all models other than IC models dead in a unit? then the IC remain in an unit.

You asked a question and I answered it, I made nothing up and I resent your baseless accusation.

You have demonstrably made up restrictions that are not written, in essence making up rules. Please do the proper thing and admit your a liar.

"all models other than IC models dead in a unit?"

This bit isn't in the rules. You made this up. The rule requires ALL other models to be killed, not just all other models other than ICs.

the rule states for a unit of that has only 1 IC, show the restriction that it would not apply to other ICs in a unit that contains multiple ICs.

For a unit of 1 ic+unit when the unit, non IC models, are dead the IC remains as a unit.

that is not made up.

show the restriction that it means in an unit that has multiple ICs and non ICs when the non ics are dead the ics are still in the non IC unit.

that is made up that you are adding the restriction.

blaktoof wrote:
the rule states for a unit of that has only 1 IC

No, it doesn't. That's what you're making up. See? I'll quote it again.

"and all other models in that unit are killed"
All other models. Not all other models that aren't ICs. Can you truly not tell the difference between those two?

So - again - you accused me of being a liar, and you literally contradicted yourself in your previous post. You're just going to pass over having done both of those things and repeat the same demonstrably false assertion over and over.

all other models in a unit that has an IC is every model that is not the IC.

so again you are liar, and are litally interjecting rules when they are not written anywhere.

show the rule of what happens when you have more than one IC in a unit and the non IC units die.

blaktoof wrote:
all other models in a unit that has an IC is every model that is not the IC.

The specific IC.
It doesn't say anything about other ICs.

so again you are liar, and are litally interjecting rules when they are not written anywhere.

show the rule of what happens when you have more than one IC in a unit and the non IC units die.

Well, at least you've doubled down on it.
The rule with more than one IC is that all ICs look at the unit. Are there other models left in the unit? Yup! Nothing happens.
That's the actual rule, as written, without making anything up.

can you quote where it says in a unit with more than 1 IC all ICs look at the unit?

or in a unit with more than 1 IC its treated differently?

blaktoof wrote:
can you quote where it says in a unit with more than 1 IC all ICs look at the unit?

Each IC has to parse the rule independently. We know that because there's no rule telling us to group ICs together.
Unless you want to make up some more words?

or in a unit with more than 1 IC its treated differently?

You're the one treating more than one IC differently.

Would I be a bad person if I said "If all the original models are dead, the IC's will not be "haunted" by their prior abilities, I do not care what is written."
Makes a mighty fine challenge to WYSIWYG.

I know, interesting "rules as written" challenge, but there are so many holes in their rules it is rather pointless getting into this madness (prior editions I would have been right in there).

Thanks for pointing it out OP, I think the drama of "lying" about quoting the rules in the book is the more exciting element of this thread.

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

each IC in the unit has to each follow the rules for characters.

if Each IC is the only model left after the unit is wiped out, then the three ICs are no longer part of the unit.

because if you do 3 x with "is the unit this IC was attached to dead?" You end up with yes 3 times.

unless you can find the profile for an inquisitor in a tactical marine unit entry there are no models from that unit entry left.

blaktoof wrote:
can you quote where it says in a unit with more than 1 IC all ICs look at the unit?

or in a unit with more than 1 IC its treated differently?

"If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."

Each IC would follow the above rule individually. "If... ...all other models in that unit are killed" fails for each IC, so none of the ICs become a unit of one model at the start of the following phase.

ICs follow the same rules regardless of how many other ICs are present.

You do understand that the other ICs are part of the Unit, right? You understand that when an IC checks to see if all other models have been killed that he includes other ICs in this check? I feel like you're missing this or that you don't understand this. I feel like you think the IC only looks at the 10 original Marines. feel like you equate "the unit" with the 10 original Marines and not the all models currently in the unit.

I feel like you are placing a restriction that it is done one at a time. I also feel like you are applying a rule that deals with only 1 thing and applying it to a case that is not discussed in the rules that deals with something different.

In the rule given it is only 1 IC, and does not address a unit that contains more than 1 IC. Obvious by the statement the IC becomes a unit of one model.

If you have 3 ICs, they are members of a unit, but must follow the rules for characters.

the rule is showing that in a unit with 1 IC if the IC is the only model left, it is not part of the unit as the unit is dead-starting at the beginning of the next phase.

The rule itself does not address multiple ICs being in the unit, so stating that it does directly is an interpretation that is ultimately made up and is also ignoring that the other ICs in the unit are also independent characters and must follow the rules for characters.

if each independent character must follow a rule showing that when the unit(non IC) is dead and the IC remains in an example showing 1 IC total in a unit, there is an equal interpretation that you can apply the same to each IC that is in the unit. Resulting in the unit being dead and the ICs remaining.

which in reality is what just happened on the table top.

so there is no actual RAW dealing with multiple ICs in an unit and the unit dies. If there is quote it, because no one has yet.

but there is possible RAI for what happens.

one of the following makes sense, the other doesn't.

1- the ICs must each still follow the rules for characters, the unit of non-ICS is dead so they revert to IC status at the start of next phase. resulting in a- each is a separate unit or b- they are one unit of ICs

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

blaktoof wrote:

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

The rule:

"If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."

The example only cares if an IC is in the unit... there could be more more than 1 and there would still be an IC in the unit.

So you have a unit with 3 ICs... A, B and C. Models in the unit have died and you must check the rule...

IC A checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes B and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC B checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC C checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and B are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.

blaktoof wrote:

While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters.

each IC in the unit has to each follow the rules for characters.

if Each IC is the only model left after the unit is wiped out, then the three ICs are no longer part of the unit.

because if you do 3 x with "is the unit this IC was attached to dead?" You end up with yes 3 times.

unless you can find the profile for an inquisitor in a tactical marine unit entry there are no models from that unit entry left.

The underlined is explicitly not what the rule actually says. That's what you want it to say, but it doesn't say that.

The bolded makes no sense - if there are 3 models left, the unit has not been wiped out.

Zimko wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

The rule:

"If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."

The example only cares if an IC is in the unit... there could be more more than 1 and there would still be an IC in the unit.

So you have a unit with 3 ICs... A, B and C. Models in the unit have died and you must check the rule...

IC A checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes B and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC B checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC C checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and B are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.

Yup. Blaktoof wants a rule telling him to do something different (send all the ICs off to be loners) if there are multiple ICs in a unit and all non-ICs are killed. No such rule exists. I still don't think he understands that attached ICs are members of the Unit for the purposes of checking to see whether or not all other models in a Unit have been killed.

Zimko wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

The rule:

"If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."

The example only cares if an IC is in the unit... there could be more more than 1 and there would still be an IC in the unit.

So you have a unit with 3 ICs... A, B and C. Models in the unit have died and you must check the rule...

IC A checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes B and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC B checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC C checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and B are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.

as I sated the rule deals with only 1 IC being in a Unit shown by the last part of what you quoted and the IC being a unit of 1 model-therefore it is only in regards to a unit having 1 IC, show where it states what to do when more than I IC is in the unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kriswall wrote:

Zimko wrote:

blaktoof wrote:

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

The rule:

"If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."

The example only cares if an IC is in the unit... there could be more more than 1 and there would still be an IC in the unit.

So you have a unit with 3 ICs... A, B and C. Models in the unit have died and you must check the rule...

IC A checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes B and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC B checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and C are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.
IC C checks:
Are there other models in the unit? Yes A and B are still alive and they are 'models in the unit'. So he stays in the unit.

Yup. Blaktoof wants a rule telling him to do something different (send all the ICs off to be loners) if there are multiple ICs in a unit and all non-ICs are killed. No such rule exists. I still don't think he understands that attached ICs are members of the Unit for the purposes of checking to see whether or not all other models in a Unit have been killed.

not actually what I stated, but thanks for failing to have reading skills. or we can just say your misquoting other posters.

heres a misquote on the same level.

"Yep krisawall just wants a rule that says when there is only 1 of something to apply in situations when there is more than 1 of something despite there being nothing stating that is the case."

here ill just repost it, its like new since you did not read it anyways before.

In the rule given it is only 1 IC, and does not address a unit that contains more than 1 IC. Obvious by the statement the IC becomes a unit of one model.

If you have 3 ICs, they are members of a unit, but must follow the rules for characters.

the rule is showing that in a unit with 1 IC if the IC is the only model left, it is not part of the unit as the unit is dead-starting at the beginning of the next phase.

The rule itself does not address multiple ICs being in the unit, so stating that it does directly is an interpretation that is ultimately made up and is also ignoring that the other ICs in the unit are also independent characters and must follow the rules for characters.

if each independent character must follow a rule showing that when the unit(non IC) is dead and the IC remains in an example showing 1 IC total in a unit, there is an equal interpretation that you can apply the same to each IC that is in the unit. Resulting in the unit being dead and the ICs remaining.

which in reality is what just happened on the table top.

so there is no actual RAW dealing with multiple ICs in an unit and the unit dies. If there is quote it, because no one has yet.

but there is possible RAI for what happens.

one of the following makes sense, the other doesn't.

1- the ICs must each still follow the rules for characters, the unit of non-ICS is dead so they revert to IC status at the start of next phase. resulting in a- each is a separate unit or b- they are one unit of ICs

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

blaktoof wrote:
I feel like you are placing a restriction that it is done one at a time. I also feel like you are applying a rule that deals with only 1 thing and applying it to a case that is not discussed in the rules that deals with something different.

Even done all at the same time, it works fine. Because the rule doesn't say what you assert that it does.
It deals with everything just fine.

In the rule given it is only 1 IC, and does not address a unit that contains more than 1 IC. Obvious by the statement the IC becomes a unit of one model.

Which is a clue that the rule is evaluated separately for every IC, not that it does not work with multiple ICs.

If you have 3 ICs, they are members of a unit, but must follow the rules for characters.

the rule is showing that in a unit with 1 IC if the IC is the only model left, it is not part of the unit as the unit is dead-starting at the beginning of the next phase.

Correct.

The rule itself does not address multiple ICs being in the unit, so stating that it does directly is an interpretation that is ultimately made up and is also ignoring that the other ICs in the unit are also independent characters and must follow the rules for characters.

No, it's not making anything up. The rule works just fine with multiple ICs as written. Wanting it to mean something else requires adding words to the rule that don't exist. Who cares if they have to follow the rules for characters? I absolutely agree that they do.
Why is that relevant to this discussion? Please explain.

if each independent character must follow a rule showing that when the unit(non IC) is dead and the IC remains in an example showing 1 IC total in a unit, there is an equal interpretation that you can apply the same to each IC that is in the unit. Resulting in the unit being dead and the ICs remaining.

That's. Not. What. The. Rule. Says.
The rule never mentions the unit dying - it says "all other models in the unit." Are the other ICs other models in the unit?

so there is no actual RAW dealing with multiple ICs in an unit and the unit dies. If there is quote it, because no one has yet.

Incorrect. The rule works fine with multiple ICs, as demonstrated. Your insistence that it doesn't despite such evidence is simply incorrect.

1- the ICs must each still follow the rules for characters, the unit of non-ICS is dead so they revert to IC status at the start of next phase. resulting in a- each is a separate unit or b- they are one unit of ICs

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

...
What? I can't even begin to count how many things you got wrong in both of those interpretations to attempt to make yourself look correct. I'll just leave it at "You're wrong."

rigeld2 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
I feel like you are placing a restriction that it is done one at a time. I also feel like you are applying a rule that deals with only 1 thing and applying it to a case that is not discussed in the rules that deals with something different.

Even done all at the same time, it works fine. Because the rule doesn't say what you assert that it does.
It deals with everything just fine.

In the rule given it is only 1 IC, and does not address a unit that contains more than 1 IC. Obvious by the statement the IC becomes a unit of one model.

Which is a clue that the rule is evaluated separately for every IC, not that it does not work with multiple ICs.

If you have 3 ICs, they are members of a unit, but must follow the rules for characters.

the rule is showing that in a unit with 1 IC if the IC is the only model left, it is not part of the unit as the unit is dead-starting at the beginning of the next phase.

Correct.

The rule itself does not address multiple ICs being in the unit, so stating that it does directly is an interpretation that is ultimately made up and is also ignoring that the other ICs in the unit are also independent characters and must follow the rules for characters.

No, it's not making anything up. The rule works just fine with multiple ICs as written. Wanting it to mean something else requires adding words to the rule that don't exist. Who cares if they have to follow the rules for characters? I absolutely agree that they do.
Why is that relevant to this discussion? Please explain.

if each independent character must follow a rule showing that when the unit(non IC) is dead and the IC remains in an example showing 1 IC total in a unit, there is an equal interpretation that you can apply the same to each IC that is in the unit. Resulting in the unit being dead and the ICs remaining.

That's. Not. What. The. Rule. Says.
The rule never mentions the unit dying - it says "all other models in the unit." Are the other ICs other models in the unit?

so there is no actual RAW dealing with multiple ICs in an unit and the unit dies. If there is quote it, because no one has yet.

Incorrect. The rule works fine with multiple ICs, as demonstrated. Your insistence that it doesn't despite such evidence is simply incorrect.

1- the ICs must each still follow the rules for characters, the unit of non-ICS is dead so they revert to IC status at the start of next phase. resulting in a- each is a separate unit or b- they are one unit of ICs

2- The ICs don't follow the rules for characters despite the rule saying so, and the example that deals with only 1 IC in a unit applies to an unit that includes more than IC despite there being no RAW stating such and you are left with an unit of 3 ICs that count as being in a unit of tactical marines despite there being no more tactical marines and the models remaining being ICs and not add on characters that are not independent characteres and may never leave a unit like royal court/meks.

...
What? I can't even begin to count how many things you got wrong in both of those interpretations to attempt to make yourself look correct. I'll just leave it at "You're wrong."

and there you go making things up again without any rules support.

ill just leave it at, your wrong. ignored.

blaktoof wrote:
and there you go making things up again without any rules support.

Except for, you know, where I've quoted rules. Repeatedly.
And you've quoted literally nothing that says "when the unit(non IC) is dead and the IC remains" as you've asserted, repeatedly.

Which one of us is making things up?

Blaktoof... is there a reason why you don't want to follow the rules for each individual IC?

The rule is clear. If all other models in the Unit are killed, do something.

For IC #1, are all other models in the Unit killed? No, so don't do the thing.

For IC #2, are all other models in the Unit killed? No, so don't do the thing.

The only reason we would need a rule telling us what to do if multiple ICs are present is if we assume something DIFFERENT happens when multiple ICs are present. There is no reason to assume this. The current rules work just fine when applied to each IC in the Unit. ICs only "run off on their own" when they are the only model left in the Unit. This doesn't happen if other ICs are present.

Why do you think something different should happen when multiple ICs are present? This might help us nail down the confusion.

so despite having no rules to support your stance you feel that a unit of:

an IC
an IC
an IC
10 tac marines

is a unit of tac marines when the following models are the only ones left in the unit:
an IC
an IC
an IC

just out of curiosity how long does it remain an unit of tac marines?

blaktoof wrote:
so despite having clear and definitive rules to support your stance you feel that a unit of:

an IC
an IC
an IC
10 tac marines

is a unit of tac marines when the following models are the only ones left in the unit:
an IC
an IC
an IC

just out of curiosity how long does it remain an unit of tac marines?

FTFY

It stays the tac marine unit until "all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase" or until 2 ICs leave the unit and thus stop being members of the unit meaning all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase.

blaktoof wrote:
so despite having no rules to support your stance you feel that a unit of:

an IC
an IC
an IC
10 tac marines

is a unit of tac marines when the following models are the only ones left in the unit:
an IC
an IC
an IC

just out of curiosity how long does it remain an unit of tac marines?

I have supported my stance. I'm the only one of the two of us that has done so with actual rules.

It remains a unit of Tac Marines until 2 of the ICs leave it or are killed. The last one looks around and sees it's the only model left and then reverts to a unit by himself.

Like the rules say.

What rigeld2 and FlingitNow said.

rigeld2 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
so despite having no rules to support your stance you feel that a unit of:

an IC
an IC
an IC
10 tac marines

is a unit of tac marines when the following models are the only ones left in the unit:
an IC
an IC
an IC

just out of curiosity how long does it remain an unit of tac marines?

I have supported my stance. I'm the only one of the two of us that has done so with actual rules.

It remains a unit of Tac Marines until 2 of the ICs leave it or are killed. The last one looks around and sees it's the only model left and then reverts to a unit by himself.

Like the rules say.

please keep making things up.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 FlingitNow wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
so despite having clear and definitive rules to support your stance you feel that a unit of:

an IC
an IC
an IC
10 tac marines

is a unit of tac marines when the following models are the only ones left in the unit:
an IC
an IC
an IC

just out of curiosity how long does it remain an unit of tac marines?

FTFY

It stays the tac marine unit until "all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase" or until 2 ICs leave the unit and thus stop being members of the unit meaning all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase.

so why do you think that?

and what is a tac marine unit?

can you quote somewhere where units have names and types? Other than a unit entry for a datasheet?

You suppose the IC becomes a member of the unit in all ways, do you believe an Inq faction model becomes faction space marines when it joins a unit of 10 tactical marines? If so where does it state that? Why is it not mentioned anywhere, or under the factions/allies matrix as that would have a large impact on list building and interactions of things.

If an IC becomes the same faction and is part of the unit, based on the made up rule of unit name for all rules purposes? where is the inquisitor profile in a tac marine unit? If its all rules purposes surely it must be in the datasheet you use to buy tac marines, as that is a rules purposes.

So you are saying that a inquistor when there are no tac marines around is a tac marine with faction space marines, because there is another inquisitor who is a tac marine with faction space marines that was attached to the same unit?

page and paragraph for what happens when 2+ ICs attached to a unit are left with no models in the unit?

if the above were the case than if you joined 2 necron overlords to a warrior squad, and the warriors died you could resurrect the warriors with ghost arks since they are still "necron warriors" even more if there were 4 overlords, and 2 remained you could ressurect the overlords since they are actually "necron warriors" using your poorly thought out logic, but since they have to follow the units rules for all rules purposes you will be hard pressed to find the statline for an overlord in the rules for the necron warrior unit... obviously false for the same reason the made up rules you are all presenting are incorrect.

Please keep in mind that Rule Number One is Be Polite. Accusing others of lying and trolling is NOT polite. There is a courteous manner to argue any point about toy soldier games. All members are obligated by their agreement upon making an account to follow the Dakka Dakka rules, including employing said courtesy. Otherwise, your account will be suspended. Thanks.

blaktoof wrote:
You suppose the IC becomes a member of the unit in all ways, do you believe an Inq faction model becomes faction space marines when it joins a unit of 10 tactical marines? If so where does it state that? Why is it not mentioned anywhere, or under the factions/allies matrix as that would have a large impact on list building and interactions of things.

When it says "for all rules purposes" in the IC rules.

page and paragraph for what happens when 2+ ICs attached to a unit are left with no models in the unit?

Contradiction - if there are 2+ ICs left, there are models in the unit.

if the above were the case than if you joined 2 necron overlords to a warrior squad, and the warriors died you could resurrect the warriors with ghost arks since they are still "necron warriors" even more if there were 4 overlords, and 2 remained you could ressurect the overlords since they are actually "necron warriors" using your poorly thought out logic, but since they have to follow the units rules for all rules purposes you will be hard pressed to find the statline for an overlord in the rules for the necron warrior unit... obviously false for the same reason the made up rules you are all presenting are incorrect.

Um. Except according to the actual rules, you can do that as well. So... yeah?

I think this is the core issue...

Blaktoof... if a Unit composed of 10 Tac Marines and 2 attached Inquisitors suffers a shooting attack and loses the 10 Marines, how many MODELS are left in the Unit?

If your answer is anything other than 2, you need to cite rules supporting your decision.

If you think "the Unit" is just the 10 Marines and not the attached ICs, you need to cite rules removing the instruction to treat the attached ICs as members of the Unit for all rules purposes.

Blaktoof's position makes total sense if you think of the Unit as being just the 10 Marines with each attached IC only checking to see if the Marines die and not caring about other attached ICs. Unfortunately, the rules don't support this.

so why do you think that? 

Because it is what the rules tell me.

and what is a tac marine unit? 

can you quote somewhere where units have names and types? Other than a unit entry for a datasheet? 

A tac marine squad is a unit that is available from several Space Marine codexes. It's name is found is found on its datasheet and in the bestiary entry and army list entry for each relevant codex. What is your point? No units don't have types, they do clearly have names.

You suppose the IC becomes a member of the unit in all ways, do you believe an Inq faction model becomes faction space marines when it joins a unit of 10 tactical marines? If so where does it state that? Why is it not mentioned anywhere, or under the factions/allies matrix as that would have a large impact on list building and interactions of things. 

Do you work for the GW design team as you seem to have no comprehension of the difference between units and models. That aside.

No the Inquisitors faction does not change. However he is part of a unit who's faction is Space Marines. That unit is still a tactical squad unless you have some rules that tell us the unit's faction changes or ceases to be a tactical squad once the IC joins it.

If an IC becomes the same faction and is part of the unit, based on the made up rule of unit name for all rules purposes? where is the inquisitor profile in a tac marine unit? If its all rules purposes surely it must be in the datasheet you use to buy tac marines, as that is a rules purposes. 

Irrelevant waffle based on your own made up strawman arguments.

So you are saying that a inquistor when there are no tac marines around is a tac marine with faction space marines, because there is another inquisitor who is a tac marine with faction space marines that was attached to the same unit? 

So inquisitor A is attached to tactical squad 1. Is he a member of the unit "tactical squad 1"?

Inquisitor B is also attached to tactical squad 1. Is he a member of the unit "tactical squad 1"?

I assume you answer yes to both the above. If not page 166 paragraph 7 proves you wrong. So assuming you have the right answer now.

If Inquisitor A is with in 2" of Inquistor B but not within 2" of any other members of the squad is the unit in unit coherency?

Therefore does Inquisitor A treat Inquisitor B as a member of "tactical squad 1"? (Remembering the correct answers from above)

So if everyone in the squad dies except the 2 inquisitors is this rule triggered page 166 paragraph 6 sentence 3 "If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase."? (remembering the answers above).

page and paragraph for what happens when 2 ICs attached to a unit are left with no models in the unit? 

Page 166 paragraph 6 as demonstrated above.

if the above were the case than if you joined 2 necron overlords to a warrior squad, and the warriors died you could resurrect the warriors with ghost arks since they are still "necron warriors" even more if there were 4 overlords, and 2 remained you could ressurect the overlords, but since they have to follow the units rules for all rules purposes you will be hard pressed to find the statline for an overlord in the rules for the necron warrior unit... obviously false for the same reason the made up rules you are all presenting are incorrect.

Yes that is how a Ghostark works RaW also note the Ghostark actually allows you to add Phantom Titans to warrior units due to the fact it is worded terribly. Saying that RaW can't be RaW just because it results in silliness in a RaW with absurd RaW is not a RaW argument. At that point it is not even an RaI argument.

You keep claiming people are making up rules why is this? We have quoted the relevant rules repeatedly and not added our own words on them. So why keep up this frankly laughable claim?

I can relate to blacktoof's point though. This is RaW:

If an Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, he again becomes a unit of one model at the start of the following phase.

It only ever mentions the 1 IC, so we have no RaW on how to deal with 2 IC (3+) in a single Unit.

There are two options:
A) As you described it Kriswall, "all other models" includes the second IC, therefore we are stuck in a loop.
If the game ends with both Inquisitors alive, the enemy would NOT get Victory points for the Tac Squad.

B) We read the Rule as Blacktoof does:
"If five(an) Independent Character joins a unit, and all other models in that unit are killed, five(he) again becomes a unit of five(one) model at the start of the following phase."
And the Unit becomes a Unit of Independant Characters, the Tac Squad is dead and awards Victory Points.

Now in my opinion, "A" and "B" are both interpretations, and i do not see why one would be much better than the other.
If you do believe "A" is stronger: The Subject is 1 IC + 1 Unit. "all other models" referes to the Unit. How can you assert 100% that this must include the second IC? We now for a fact this rule refers to a SINGLE IC and joining a Unit.