Ferguson Protestor's change of heart and when bullets fly

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**Hordini**

Jihadin wrote:
Remember that soldier who busted out the Stolen Valor guy in the mall and was all loud about it? Someone on here said it was more likely due to him having PTSD to act like an ass to the overweight stay puff wanna-be Ranger? That's a recent example on here I can think of.

Oh yeah. I remember. Luckily there were some of us around to remind them that that wasn't particularly cool.

**d-usa**

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1798&issue_id=5200

And other studies find that the bias is real.

**whembly**

d-usa wrote:
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1798&issue_id=5200

And other studies find that the bias is real.

Oh I know... just saying that it's in dispute and the studies are all over the map.

**Stormwall**

Jihadin wrote:
Remember that soldier who busted out the Stolen Valor guy in the mall and was all loud about it? Someone on here said it was more likely due to him having PTSD to act like an ass to the overweight stay puff wanna-be Ranger? That's a recent example on here I can think of.

Stolen Valor is horrid but until a civvie serves they won't understand what an insult it is to each generation both current and those before to see someone commiting it.

Furthermore I've come to not really expect Dakkanauts to respect our troops as this is a website for miniatures. It a small culture apart of the last few generations to not care or respect what servicemen and women do. PTSD and sometimes even MST are viewed with horrible stigmas, the former worse than the latter though. Still, I group the people who say all of it is a "war for oil/servicemembers kill babies," with the same people who say we never made it to the moon. Ironic considering a lot of wargamers are former military, and that almost everyone I know who play are Marines.

I find all this data and exercises are interesting and refreshing though. (Both in OP and the bias results above)

**Hordini**

d-usa wrote:
http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1798&issue_id=5200

And other studies find that the bias is real.

So there are different studies showing different things. It's almost like there might not be an easy answer.

It should also be noted that the methodology for the second study is basically a video game, while the first study posted by Whembly involves immersion scenarios.

**stanman**

John Rambo in First Blood is probably what a lot of people think of PTSD having the potential to become. Nam vets had to deal with a lot of stigma as being crazies waiting to happen and that was before PTSD was termed as a thing. Older vets were "shell shocked" and it was known that some of them had issues but there wasn't a fancy term for it.

One of my friends was in Iraq and he's basically drinking himself to death due to PTSD, it certainly impacts his ability to hold down a job. He has a particularly bad case of it though and he's well outside the norm. I think it's a shame that people have that type of bias against our soldiers, many have given up a lot in service to our country and sadly there's a portion of people that consider vets suffering with PTSD to be a bit unstable.

**Torga_DW**

Stormwall wrote:
Still, I group the people who say all of it is a "war for oil/servicemembers kill babies," with the same people who say we never made it to the moon. Ironic considering a lot of wargamers are former military, and that almost everyone I know who play are Marines.

I can only speak for myself and say the distinction needs to be made that while i believe that "war for oil" or whatever political nonsense is going on at any given time is nonsense, i don't attribute it to the military. The government makes the bad decisions, the military gets sent to carry them out (vietnam, korea, iraq). I have great respect for the servicemen and women who go in to fight these wars and risk their lives trying to do the (usually literally) impossible. Its the governments who make the dumbass decisions to send them in that i have little to no respect for.

**d-usa**

Speaking about this topic, I just stumbled across this amazing newspaper clipping:

I really hope that is one of those fake papers...

Edit: To clarify, no I do not think that most people want to become cops to shoot minorities.

**Torga_DW**

I just googled it, it's a misquote/typo. It did make for a startling moment when i read it though.

edit: http://www.wave3.com/story/27791656/elizabethtown-newspaper-apologizes-for-major-error-in-police-story

**d-usa**

That's a relief then.

**Deadshot**

carlos13th wrote:
When a situation is real and you are actually in real danger it feels different to any simulation.

I train martial arts and if we take sparring as an example sparring is a very good simulation of a fight. Probably the closest safe training aid we have. But you are still in the gym with your friends.

But compare that to competing in the ring and the adrenaline doesn't come close you lose a lot of the skill you would have under less pressure and it's harder to think straight.the pressure is on because the other guy wants to beat you and will hurt you to do it. But at the very least you have a ref as a lifeline.

Now instead of comp up the stakes once more and move the fight to a real situation in the street, or a bar etc. Sure the opponent may be less trained. But they could have a weapon, you could have family members to protect, you have to consider legal issues that may arise from defending yourself and you have no idea if this guy just wants to hurt you or Is willing to kill you.

The adrenaline will stop you being able to think straight, will lose some of your fine motor skills, your heart will beat like crazy and unless you have a fair bit of experience defending yourself in these kind of situations you will probably be scared. For the most part the same techniques will work in the sparring as it will in the street fight but it's much harder to use them under that kind of pressure.

I can somewhat attest to this. Back in June I was in town with my girlfriend at the time. We were waiting at a bus stop and some drunk guy came up and asked for a decent sum of money , and I said "I don't have none, mate" (I call everyone mate, colloquial), to which he aggressive told me "I'm not your mate." At that point adrenaline hit and everything seemed to slow. I am trained in Judo, a trainee coach in fact, and trained in Kata which is specifically self-defence orientated. I knew I should stand but I couldn't because I couldn't think beyond "Protect her," and "Does he have a knife." It was only if he asked if she had the money that I was able to react.

Obviously, a firefight is a quite different to that, and thankfully no actual violence broke out. But I can relate to a lot of what you are saying here with a tiny measure of personal (terrifying at that) experience. Like you say, he was less trained than me, and drunk. But they could have had a knife (and looked like the type that would). I had someone else with me who could get hurt. I could get in trouble because he was drunk. And I had no idea how violent he might get. My heart and thoughts were a thousand a minute. Even now, my legs still shake remembering the moment. I was scarred, despite knowing exactly what techniques would drop him like a sack of bricks. So yeah, I can attest to this post.