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Yeah, I'm sorry to the nay-sayers, but 40K is hugely "inspired" by Moorcock and the Dune series. The very basis of the Imperium is copied from the humans of the Dune universe, right down to the machine crusade and the human-as-machines.

Davor wrote:
What is 2000ad? Never herd of it.

Judge Dredd debuted there, didn't he?


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 AegisGrimm wrote:
Yeah, I'm sorry to the nay-sayers, but 40K is hugely "inspired" by Moorcock and the Dune series. The very basis of the Imperium is copied from the humans of the Dune universe, right down to the machine crusade and the human-as-machines.

Believe it or not what came first doesn't really matter.

I'd say when it comes down to who inspired what, what came first is pretty crucial!

 Psienesis wrote:
... one of the titles of a book in the Dune series is "God-Emperor of Dune".

C'mon.

I'm gonna note that the idea of a god emperor is hardly an original idea of Frank Hubert anyway..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_cult

Moral of the story is:

Be honest when you Nick things and at least try to mix it up (which I think 40K has.)


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I just read some older WDs and more about Nemesis the Warlock.

Nemesis and RT shared a number of writers and in all honesty both of them had just put a sci fi twist on dark age, inquisition and crusade era catholicism. Crusade era Catholicism is fairly distinct and really from what I've seen of it nemesis isn't that much more original then 40k.

Taking historical elements is a universal trait of all literature and even Dune had a good deal of historical concepts sent into space (house harkonnen were based on the Nazis.)

The best explanation for the similarity between the two (keep in mind this is mostly conjecture) is laziness.

Another important note is back when GW still made 2000 AD stuff they were cross promoted and certain products could be used with both.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
... one of the titles of a book in the Dune series is "God-Emperor of Dune".

C'mon.

I'm gonna note that the idea of a god emperor is hardly an original idea of Frank Hubert anyway..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_cult

Obviously there are real-life inspirations for such a belief (Rome and Egypt, to name a few), but the specific title is, most likely, lifted from Dune. And why wouldn't it be? Dune is a direct inspiration for the setting.

I am, of course, not saying that any of this is a bad thing. So what that other sci-fi and fantasy sources inspired Priestly et. al. to create a dystopian sci-fi future out of them? The concept of the setting is still pretty cool, even if it is fairly obvious where most of its inspirations come from... and where they blatantly "stole" the look and vibe of some aspects from other works. GW has never been particularly secretive about these activities... after all, Sly Marbo is overtly and directly copied from Sly Stallone's "John Rambo" character, just to name one such instance.

 Psienesis wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
... one of the titles of a book in the Dune series is "God-Emperor of Dune".

C'mon.

I'm gonna note that the idea of a god emperor is hardly an original idea of Frank Hubert anyway..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_cult

Obviously there are real-life inspirations for such a belief (Rome and Egypt, to name a few), but the specific title is, most likely, lifted from Dune. And why wouldn't it be? Dune is a direct inspiration for the setting.

I am, of course, not saying that any of this is a bad thing. So what that other sci-fi and fantasy sources inspired Priestly et. al. to create a dystopian sci-fi future out of them? The concept of the setting is still pretty cool, even if it is fairly obvious where most of its inspirations come from... and where they blatantly "stole" the look and vibe of some aspects from other works. GW has never been particularly secretive about these activities... after all, Sly Marbo is overtly and directly copied from Sly Stallone's "John Rambo" character, just to name one such instance.

ohh agreed, rather I just wanted to note that even the settingsd 40k borrowed from borrowed from other things as well. no story is truely original. and most of the time some of the best worlds are ones that steal bits and peices from a varity of places and put em together into something awesome.

 Bronzefists42 wrote:
Moral of the story is:

Be honest when you Nick things and at least try to mix it up (which I think 40K has.)


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I just read some older WDs and more about Nemesis the Warlock.

Nemesis and RT shared a number of writers and in all honesty both of them had just put a sci fi twist on dark age, inquisition and crusade era catholicism. Crusade era Catholicism is fairly distinct and really from what I've seen of it nemesis isn't that much more original then 40k.

Yeah except that Nemesis the warlock was first and GW ripped it off as much as possible, it shaped the Imperium of man which funnily is considered most original GW concept when in fact there was nothing original about it. Well Emperor being Muad Dib Conan in spaace turned into zombiefied Palapatine was a funny twist but thats it.

And who are the writers you write about? I think neither Patt Mills worked for GW nor Rick Priestley worked for 2000AD, the latter was making a Judge Dredd game but was not writing the stories etc. I dont think there was a single common writter in the RT era so not sure what you mean by number of them. I also remember searching for the supposed artists that worked for both companies and found 2 or sth afair who drew only a few less important pictures.

It was worst in visual department, go read the actual comic books and have a good laugh finding majority of GW initial designs there. It took a long time for GW to stop ripping 2000ad drawings btw, the most 'iconic' sisters of battle helmet is one of ABC warriors helmets etc. Outside of 2000Ad, look at Starship Troopers the movie and infantry armour there, then look at Cadians, you can do it with almost everything in 40k as it's just an amalgamate of someone else ideas and a blatant ripoff all around. You could make a case for Blanche and Miller adding a few more original visual bits but that was the minimum required for 40k to not be just a copy.

Nemesis the Warlock not being original puts GW even in worse light imo. Ripping the ripoff of the ripoff is like that 10th vulcano eruption/ earthquake/ tornado catastrophic movie made only to ride on the popularity of the genre at a given time that brings nothing new to the table.

Again, looking at Dune as a source for 40k is reaching. Lot of people think drop pods are something from older sources like Heinlein when in fact those were in Rogue Trooper comic and 'sliped'. GW didnt make even half the honest ripoff work they are accused of.

But hey it allows them to make awesome cthulhu aliens or egyptian terminator figurines so it's all ok. Just lets not pretend 40k is anything more than sf popculture thrown into grimdark mixer.

Bronzefist42 wrote:Another important note is back when GW still made 2000 AD stuff they were cross promoted and certain products could be used with both.

Still doesnt change the fact that there was very very little creativity on GW side, and it was their product not 2000ad's

There was an Imperial Guard mini from the Rogue Trader days that looked exactly like a picture of Strontium Dog, as I believe he was called, right down to the pose.

look at Starship Troopers the movie and infantry armour there, then look at Cadians

except first of all Imperial guard came out BEFORE Starship troopers the movie, (their first codex was '95 and they existed before that in one form or another) I'd suggest in this case it was really more they likely used similer sources for design. to be brutally honest I doubt many of the world design team in 40k had a very high opinion of SST, given they where proably aware of the book, and thus realized like anyone who did, just how AWEFUL the movie was and almost certinly where as dissappointed in the costumes as I was. remember SST, the novel, was pretty much the birthplace of power armor. Robert Heinlein has a solid claim on the title "Father of the Space Marine"

40K is obviously "inspired" by a lot of things, but honestly, 2000 AD is not even in the Top 100 of the things GW nicked things from.

- Starship Troopers
- Heart of Darkness
- Foundation Trilogy
- Moorcock books
- Edgar Allen Poe
- Lionel Johnson
- Shakespeare, esp. The Tempest (Caliban, Prospero, Ariel for Fantasy, etc..)
- Inferno by Dante (!)
- Paradise Lost
- D&D and other 80s RPGs (which in turn weren't usually "original")
- Rambo, Vietnam and WWII movies
- Alien
- Bible in various historical versions, notably pre-Christian Hebrew variants (e.g. Belial,....) not normally "the Bible" you'd buy in a bookshop today (easy to "google" today, but in the 1970s or 1980s, you'd have to learn gak like that)
- Historical events, people and organisations (Templars, Crusades, Inquisition, Protestant Reformation, etc..)
- Etc.., etc...

In many ways, the impressive thing about it is, who widely read the original creators of 40K were and how shamelessly they matched "high-brow" and "low-brow" concepts into a seamless whole.

[edit]
Also, Star Wars, Sherlock Holmes and Inspector Clousseau

BrianDavion wrote:

look at Starship Troopers the movie and infantry armour there, then look at Cadians

except first of all Imperial guard came out BEFORE Starship troopers the movie, (their first codex was '95 and they existed before that in one form or another) I'd suggest in this case it was really more they likely used similer sources for design. to be brutally honest I doubt many of the world design team in 40k had a very high opinion of SST, given they where proably aware of the book, and thus realized like anyone who did, just how AWEFUL the movie was and almost certinly where as dissappointed in the costumes as I was. remember SST, the novel, was pretty much the birthplace of power armor. Robert Heinlein has a solid claim on the title "Father of the Space Marine"

Except before Starship Troopers the movie they were ripped off from somewhere else (if I was to bet, 2000ad), then from Aliens, then from ST finaly . Movie being awful adaptation is not a reason to not ripp off some element from it. Just compare the cadian armour to ST movie one.


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Wonderwolf wrote:
40K is obviously "inspired" by a lot of things, but honestly, 2000 AD is not even in the Top 100 of the things GW nicked things from.

- Starship Troopers
- Heart of Darkness
- Foundation Trilogy
- Moorcock books
- Edgar Allen Poe
- Lionel Johnson
- Shakespeare, esp. The Tempest (Caliban, Prospero, Ariel for Fantasy, etc..)
- Inferno by Dante (!)
- Paradise Lost
- D&D and other 80s RPGs (which in turn weren't usually "original")
- Rambo, Vietnam and WWII movies
- Alien
- Bible in various historical versions, notably pre-Christian Hebrew variants (e.g. Belial,....) not normally "the Bible" you'd buy in a bookshop today (easy to "google" today, but in the 1970s or 1980s, you'd have to learn gak like that)
- Historical events, people and organisations (Templars, Crusades, Inquisition, Protestant Reformation, etc..)
- Etc.., etc...

In many ways, the impressive thing about it is, who widely read the original creators of 40K were and how shamelessly they matched "high-brow" and "low-brow" concepts into a seamless whole.

[edit]
Also, Star Wars, Sherlock Holmes and Inspector Clousseau

Not really no, unless you count opening a book and taking a few names, they only took litle bits from most of the things you mention. 2000ad provided the whole idea, mood style and many if not majority of initial designs. Nemesis the Warlock had thermight empire launching a space crusade against aliens that was fought by emperor torquemada terminators diveded into chapters, including one named crusaders and there was also inquisition afair . You can reach and claim that GW took history but the simplest answer is that they took the idea from the comic book along with everything else. There s also khaos daemon fightin said empire as everybody then was ripping off Moorcock but the particular idea of facist medieval styled empire fighting aliens and chaos is taken from Nemesis the Warlock issue 'thermight empire', go read if you haven't yet.

Not in the top 100 lol, and you count Rambo higher than 2000ad because of one character, Sly Marbo. Please.

Maybe lets just ask Rick Priestley if it was 'top 100' I cant post a link from this crap phone but just type 'rick priestly interview 2000ad' into google, it's the tales of maelstrom one.

And sorry, it didn't 'slip', it 'rubbed off' Just checked.

Plumbumbarum wrote:


Not in the top 100 lol, and you count Rambo higher than 2000ad because of one character, Sly Marbo. Please.

I count Rambo higher, because he inspired the entire Catachan range and background, and in turn gave 40K a it's slightly campy IG army that tapped into the even back in the day huge market (larger certainly than 2000 AD readers) of historical wargamers, historical tank modelers, etc.. and persuaded them into a wonky sci-fi game.

Sly Marbo, at best, was the icing on the cake.

http://www.talesfromthemaelstrom.blogspot.com/2011/09/rick-priestley-interview.html?m=1

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

People comparing 40K to Dune have always seemed to be searching something to reach for, given how little there is to compare, except for in broadest terms.

40k copied a lot of stuff from a lot of sources, but there's a fair bit of direct comparisons

-not allowed to make thinking machines/computers (butlerian jihad)
-las guns
-deathworlds used to train elite soldiers (sardaukar and selusa secundus, fremen and arrakis)
-post-human navigators are required to traverse deep space
-assassins defined by type (eg chaumus, chaumurky)
-personal protective shields
-feudal government
-humans repurposed to fill the role of machines (mentats, axotl tanks)
-humans trained and evolved into 'magic' powers (reverend mothers, navigators, facedancers)

Just a few off the top of my head. Like i said 40k borrowed from a lot of sources, but there's some noticable ones that came from dune.

Thank you for proving my point. It's a laughably long stretch to say that any of these are things that GW took from Dune. It's easy to say, 'they took these!' if you're too lazy to actually consider what is a broadly similar trope.

Unless you're actually arguing that Herbert invented las-guns, personal protective shields, and fuedal governments. In which case, I'd reccommend that you really need to go through life reading more than just one series of books.

Same with nemesis. It is really just dark ages in space.

Not exclusive to nemesis.


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Nemesis did not come up with "xenophobic racists declaring war on foreign entities."

That's just history.

It wasn't just the name they nicked, the God-Emperor of Dune was also immortal and prescient but throne bound (albeit his moved) and he relied on an army of warrior nuns to purge heretics.

Wasn't Starship Troopers written in the 50s?? I'm confused. I'm glad Lovecraft isn't alive to sue the 1000s of people who've ripped him off.

Because he would squander the money and still be a racist prat.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'd say when it comes down to who inspired what, what came first is pretty crucial!

My point was that who inspired what doesn't really matter. I know that we all want to get up in arms and defend our favourite stuff as original and accuse everyone else of ripping it off but at the end of the day something is cool depending on a variety of factors that have nothing to do with what it ripped off.

(One could make the argument that Dragon Age lifted its entire magic system from Warhammer, does that make the game not cool?)

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

 Bookwrack wrote:

People comparing 40K to Dune have always seemed to be searching something to reach for, given how little there is to compare, except for in broadest terms.

40k copied a lot of stuff from a lot of sources, but there's a fair bit of direct comparisons

-not allowed to make thinking machines/computers (butlerian jihad)
-las guns
-deathworlds used to train elite soldiers (sardaukar and selusa secundus, fremen and arrakis)
-post-human navigators are required to traverse deep space
-assassins defined by type (eg chaumus, chaumurky)
-personal protective shields
-feudal government
-humans repurposed to fill the role of machines (mentats, axotl tanks)
-humans trained and evolved into 'magic' powers (reverend mothers, navigators, facedancers)

Just a few off the top of my head. Like i said 40k borrowed from a lot of sources, but there's some noticable ones that came from dune.

Thank you for proving my point. It's a laughably long stretch to say that any of these are things that GW took from Dune. It's easy to say, 'they took these!' if you're too lazy to actually consider what is a broadly similar trope.

Unless you're actually arguing that Herbert invented las-guns, personal protective shields, and fuedal governments. In which case, I'd reccommend that you really need to go through life reading more than just one series of books.

They weren't tropes back in those days, they weren't common enough to be a trope. Unless you can show me an older source, yes i'm crediting dune with las guns. Dune was pretty unique in its time, the emphasis on repurposed humans in an age when everyone was moving towards 'the computer/machine' will do it. Just because these things are 'tropes' now doesn't mean squat when they were originally copied.

 Torga_DW wrote:
They weren't tropes back in those days, they weren't common enough to be a trope. Unless you can show me an older source, yes i'm crediting dune with las guns. Dune was pretty unique in its time, the emphasis on repurposed humans in an age when everyone was moving towards 'the computer/machine' will do it. Just because these things are 'tropes' now doesn't mean squat when they were originally copied.

Taking a breather from work, so I must be quick - Basically, Middle East Crisis + Hippy drug culture + High Fantasy + Pulp Sci-fi = Dune.

Actually, what Dune does best is tackling serious political and philosophical themes from the backdrop of a pulpy science-fictional universe where Flash Gordon and Ming of Mongo wouldn't feel too out of place. Don't forget that Dune came in a time of transition for Science Fiction, where authors and readers were trying to move past the coldly rationalist, technophiliac fiction of the 50s and early 60s. Herbert did by eschewing the most ovbious influences and looking towards the lowbrow fringes of the genre like comic strips, pulp novels and high fantasy, which by the 1960s was still the object of derision by most genre aficionados.

This joyful mixture of sociopolitical comment with both high and lowbrow influences was quite an achievement from Herbert, one that opened new paths on the genre for others to explore, but to the eyes of Dakka it would probably make Dune a ripoff to all ends and purposes. If you start looking elsewhere for medioeval futures, lasguns, deified emperors, magical drugs and superhumans, I'm afraid you are going to find them.

 Torga_DW wrote:

They weren't tropes back in those days, they weren't common enough to be a trope.

Christ, you're making me feel old. You DO realize that sci-fi wasn't invented in 1965? Harry Harrison wrote 'Death World' back in 1960, but even then he was far from the first person to write a sci-fi yarn about a planet where 'everything was out to kill you,' and such a planet producing bad-asses of one kind or another is just as old.

Davor wrote:
What is 2000ad? Never herd of it.

It's a comic book -- Think Judge Dredd. There might be some elements of 2000 AD in 40k, but 40k is most certainly not a derivative work of 2000 AD.

In fact, that's the problem with this whole argument: Just because A is inspired by B and borrows elements from C and D does not make A an unoriginal work, or a ripoff. You see people obsessed with this argument in almost every scifi/fantasy setting, and ultimately they come to the conclusion that there is very little original fiction. In contrast, others can enjoy fiction as being creative and original, so long as the story has an different twist to it.

That's not to say that there aren't ripoffs (there are plenty), and that certain 40k factions don't borrow from the flavor and aesthetic of other scifi. When I first saw Tyranids in the 80's (90s?), I immediately thought "OMG, ALIENS RIPOFF!". However, Tyranids are now a distinct species with rich fiction and aesthetic, and over time, GW has done a decent job in making them a pretty unique scifi species.

Agent_Tremolo wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
They weren't tropes back in those days, they weren't common enough to be a trope. Unless you can show me an older source, yes i'm crediting dune with las guns. Dune was pretty unique in its time, the emphasis on repurposed humans in an age when everyone was moving towards 'the computer/machine' will do it. Just because these things are 'tropes' now doesn't mean squat when they were originally copied.

Taking a breather from work, so I must be quick - Basically, Middle East Crisis + Hippy drug culture + High Fantasy + Pulp Sci-fi = Dune.

Actually, what Dune does best is tackling serious political and philosophical themes from the backdrop of a pulpy science-fictional universe where Flash Gordon and Ming of Mongo wouldn't feel too out of place. Don't forget that Dune came in a time of transition for Science Fiction, where authors and readers were trying to move past the coldly rationalist, technophiliac fiction of the 50s and early 60s. Herbert did by eschewing the most ovbious influences and looking towards the lowbrow fringes of the genre like comic strips, pulp novels and high fantasy, which by the 1960s was still the object of derision by most genre aficionados.

This joyful mixture of sociopolitical comment with both high and lowbrow influences was quite an achievement from Herbert, one that opened new paths on the genre for others to explore, but to the eyes of Dakka it would probably make Dune a ripoff to all ends and purposes. If you start looking elsewhere for medioeval futures, lasguns, deified emperors, magical drugs and superhumans, I'm afraid you are going to find them.

I largely agree with what you're saying, i just went with politics & religion. I'm not saying dune didn't have it's own inspirations, but lets look at the specifics, like lasguns. Laser guns have existed in scifi for a long time, no question about it, but dune was the first place i'd ever seen them called lasguns. If you can point me in the right direction of a specific source, i'll happily admit i'm wrong. But given the timeframe involved, and the specific word involved, it is almost completely certain that GW took inspiration/ripped that directly off dune.

Portugal Jones wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:

They weren't tropes back in those days, they weren't common enough to be a trope.

Christ, you're making me feel old. You DO realize that sci-fi wasn't invented in 1965? Harry Harrison wrote 'Death World' back in 1960, but even then he was far from the first person to write a sci-fi yarn about a planet where 'everything was out to kill you,' and such a planet producing bad-asses of one kind or another is just as old.

I'm not claiming frank herbert invented death worlds, i'm saying it's the first place i've seen where such worlds were deliberately used to recruit soldiers because it produced consistent badassery.

So you're arguing from ignorance.

Gotcha.

Or have you seriously not considered that your personal experience does not encompass the the scope of fiction?

Talys wrote:

Davor wrote:
What is 2000ad? Never herd of it.

It's a comic book -- Think Judge Dredd. There might be some elements of 2000 AD in 40k, but 40k is most certainly not a derivative work of 2000 AD.

http://www.2000adonline.com/

At the cutting edge of contemporary pop culture since 1977, the stunning cocktail of explosive sci-fi and fantasy, infused with a mean streak of irony and wry black humour, has won countless awards and inspired everything from music to movies, art to politics.

Judge Dredd,
Rogue Trooper,
ABC Warriors,
Strontium Dog,
Lots of others.

As for influences for 40k, Judge Dredd had a vehicle called a 'Land Raider' in one story. It was a near-indestructible transport, with weapons. Sound familiar?
RT had hoverboards, which appear a lot in Judge Dredd stories.

 DarkLink wrote:

Talys wrote:
In terms of scifi universes, 40k is pretty distinct.

You've obviously never read Dune.

I have to say, neither have you.

The Dune series by Frank Herbert is infinitely better and deeper than the 40K universe, doesn't have alien races, psykers, chaos or other fantasy references, has lots of historical references and a very different core.

The only parallel one could draw between the two is the existence of an Emperor (there's always a top dog though) and the use of close combat weapons in the future (which is ridiculous).

If anything, 40K is really just WHFB in space, which itself was just another clone of the ADD / Tolkien universes.


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Talys wrote:

Dune is all about a single, precious resource (spice) without which intergalactic travel is not possible. The events of the novel, trilogy, and series are almost entirely on Arrakis, upon which various factions vie for control. The galaxy, as it were, is controlled by humans, and there are no existential threats to the existence or dominance of the human species.

Yeah well, when you only read the first book, that may be the impression you get.

If you read all of it, there are threats to the existence of the human species, several actually, and that's the reason for the golden path, the scattering, the honored matres, goddamit why did he not write a sequel those ends are still loose.


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 Torga_DW wrote:

-assassins defined by type (eg chaumus, chaumurky)

That's poisons not assassins, and it's a historical reference, like ... mostly everything in Dune.


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Talys wrote:

I've tried to love the post-Herbert stuff, because I was such a huge fan of the original Frank Herbert's original trilogy, but I find it largely unreadable. The later books feel as much a part of Dune as Battle of Five Armies feels like it belongs a part of the Hobbit.

It's not a trilogy, there are six books.

Anyway, the post-Herbert stuff is almost murder. I read it because I enjoy the universe, but the writer mindlessly copies words from Dune without even understanding them, ending up with ridiculous things like everyone in the universe writes on Spice Paper prior to Arrakis (house Atreides/Harkonnen/Corrino series) when that's just as dumb as it gets, almost nobody used spice derivatives except on Arrakis before the jihad.

Other than that, those were still fun to read because it was still in that friggin nice universe.


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Wonderwolf wrote:

- Foundation Trilogy

Which part ? Foundation didn't seem anywhere close to 40K to me.


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 Gashrog wrote:
It wasn't just the name they nicked, the God-Emperor of Dune was also immortal and prescient but throne bound (albeit his moved) and he relied on an army of warrior nuns to purge heretics.

He wasn't exactly throne bound and that's how he defended himself, and killed Moneo as well.

@morgoth - I never said that Dune was a trilogy. I said, Herbert's *original* trilogy. Books 1-3 are about Paul, his friends, family, their enemies and allies. Book 4 jumps forward 3500 years, and books 5 and 6 jump forward another 1500 years.

I view the original 3 books as a single story arc, as they have many of the same characters. I also consider it a trilogy because it resolves its story elements neatly.

Call it what you will, but the Herbert books are not about a human empire spanning the galaxy on the brink of collapse as a result of xenos threats and Chaos.

The principal driver of the 40k universe is the struggle of species for domination/survival. The principle driver for Dune is power.

And, Frank Herbert did not write anything after Chapterhouse (and close off unresolved story elements) for a pretty good reason. He died shortly after it was written.

Basically my complaint isn't about Dune being inspirational to many pieces of scifi; it's the complaint that subsequent works are ripoffs, whether it be 40k or star wars, simply because they have some similarities.

RT especially had a heavy Dune and 2000AD influence. The warp travel is a mixture of Dune and H.P. Lovecraft's "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath." Check it out, it's got a lot of the same terminology with the empyriam and strange creatures scratching at the hulls. Etc etc etc.
Yes, 40k borrowed a great deal, but it is highly unique in the way that they put everything together. Almost brilliant at times.
Drawing from other sources doesn't lessen the 40k universe. Every sci-fi story borrows from something else.
What lessens the 40k fluff is the writing of the last ten years. That Ward GK codex...wow!

 MWHistorian wrote:
RT especially had a heavy Dune and 2000AD influence. The warp travel is a mixture of Dune and H.P. Lovecraft's "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath." Check it out, it's got a lot of the same terminology with the empyriam and strange creatures scratching at the hulls. Etc etc etc.
Yes, 40k borrowed a great deal, but it is highly unique in the way that they put everything together. Almost brilliant at times.
Drawing from other sources doesn't lessen the 40k universe. Every sci-fi story borrows from something else.
What lessens the 40k fluff is the writing of the last ten years. That Ward GK codex...wow!

For me, what lessens the 40K is the complete lack of depth or science in the fiction.