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Dont forget here that DE end up with FNP across the board turn two.
Furthermore, pretty much the entire army is going to be fast moving/ mechanized. So theres that.
But yeh, in terms of power, they probably dont match up to ELdar, but so what? You should pick an army based on play style and models, not how OP they are. If your buddy like fast but fragile, then take Dark Eldar.
There are some units too that can take a bit of damage as well by the way. Just not most of the army XD

morgoth wrote:

That's a misconception.
You just have to use them against their intended target to discover how crazy good they are.
They're not as all-purpose as the Wave Serpent, but they're a hell of a lot better per point against Monstrous Creatures.

It's not a misconception - it's just basic statistics. 12 shots amount to 8 hits and 4 wounds.

Against targets with a 3+ save (bikes, many MCs), you're averaging 1.33 wounds (and, that's not factoring in FNP or such). If your target MC has a 2+ save, then you're not even averaging a single wound.

morgoth wrote:

In terms of brutality, I would think that 240 points of Reaver Jetbikes just outright smoke a Wraith Knight.
In terms of resilience, it's Dark Eldar so forget about it.

I think you misunderstood - I was asking what DE unit could beat TWC in combat - not what could also beat a WK in combat (short answer - I wouldn't try. As you say, we have better ways of dealing with MCs. ).

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

That's a misconception.
You just have to use them against their intended target to discover how crazy good they are.
They're not as all-purpose as the Wave Serpent, but they're a hell of a lot better per point against Monstrous Creatures.

It's not a misconception - it's just basic statistics. 12 shots amount to 8 hits and 4 wounds.

Against targets with a 3+ save (bikes, many MCs), you're averaging 1.33 wounds (and, that's not factoring in FNP or such). If your target MC has a 2+ save, then you're not even averaging a single wound.

Let's stick to their optimal target shall we ?

Against their optimal target, a Wraith Knight, they deal 1.33 wounds per Venom, or about 5 wounds per turn for the cost of a Wraith Knight.

That's an excellent ratio.

Against Tyranids, it's more like 3 wounds because they're cheaper, but it's still two-turn shooting. Very efficient.

morgoth wrote:

Let's stick to their optimal target shall we ?

Against their optimal target, a Wraith Knight, they deal 1.33 wounds per Venom, or about 5 wounds per turn for the cost of a Wraith Knight.

That's an excellent ratio.

Against Tyranids, it's more like 3 wounds because they're cheaper, but it's still two-turn shooting. Very efficient.

It's an excellent ratio against expensive MCs that pay for toughness. Against ones with 2+ saves, FNP or just against cheap bikes, it's a much worse ratio.

Also, that wasn't even the point I was making in the first place. I was simply saying that 12 shots apiece sounds like a lot - until you do the math and realise that it only translates to a single wound against 3+ armour.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Let's stick to their optimal target shall we ?

Against their optimal target, a Wraith Knight, they deal 1.33 wounds per Venom, or about 5 wounds per turn for the cost of a Wraith Knight.

That's an excellent ratio.

Against Tyranids, it's more like 3 wounds because they're cheaper, but it's still two-turn shooting. Very efficient.

It's an excellent ratio against expensive MCs that pay for toughness. Against ones with 2+ saves, FNP or just against cheap bikes, it's a much worse ratio.

Also, that wasn't even the point I was making in the first place. I was simply saying that 12 shots apiece sounds like a lot - until you do the math and realise that it only translates to a single wound against 3+ armour.

But that's what matters in the end, because your S4 bolters result in zero wounds and cost as many points, etc.

That's how you get the effectiveness of a unit, and what's relevant here is that, once more, Dark Eldar equipment is excellent at dishing out damage against its optimal targets, yet extremely fragile for it.

 Jollydevil wrote:
Dont forget here that DE end up with FNP across the board turn two.
Furthermore, pretty much the entire army is going to be fast moving/ mechanized. So theres that.
But yeh, in terms of power, they probably dont match up to ELdar, but so what? You should pick an army based on play style and models, not how OP they are. If your buddy like fast but fragile, then take Dark Eldar.
There are some units too that can take a bit of damage as well by the way. Just not most of the army XD

Don't place too much value on that FNP. It's 6+ on turn two and only 5+ on turn 3 when you're either winning massively or mostly dead (fragile and deadly). Also, if you play against Craftworld Eldar like me, you almost never get FNP, since they fire dozens of S6 shots every turn.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:
Dont forget here that DE end up with FNP across the board turn two.
Furthermore, pretty much the entire army is going to be fast moving/ mechanized. So theres that.
But yeh, in terms of power, they probably dont match up to ELdar, but so what? You should pick an army based on play style and models, not how OP they are. If your buddy like fast but fragile, then take Dark Eldar.
There are some units too that can take a bit of damage as well by the way. Just not most of the army XD

Don't place too much value on that FNP. It's 6+ on turn two and only 5+ on turn 3 when you're either winning massively or mostly dead (fragile and deadly). Also, if you play against Craftworld Eldar like me, you almost never get FNP, since they fire dozens of S6 shots every turn.

There's a lot of truth in that, but Dark Eldar can earn something by making the opponent wait, that's an unusual mechanic waiting for some advantage to be taken of it.

In all fairness, it's not much, but Scourges reaching the table on turn 3 will have 4+ with 5+ FnP, which in the cases where their save and FnP applies is as much as a 3+ Save.

Nothing huge really

morgoth wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Jollydevil wrote:
Dont forget here that DE end up with FNP across the board turn two.
Furthermore, pretty much the entire army is going to be fast moving/ mechanized. So theres that.
But yeh, in terms of power, they probably dont match up to ELdar, but so what? You should pick an army based on play style and models, not how OP they are. If your buddy like fast but fragile, then take Dark Eldar.
There are some units too that can take a bit of damage as well by the way. Just not most of the army XD

Don't place too much value on that FNP. It's 6+ on turn two and only 5+ on turn 3 when you're either winning massively or mostly dead (fragile and deadly). Also, if you play against Craftworld Eldar like me, you almost never get FNP, since they fire dozens of S6 shots every turn.

There's a lot of truth in that, but Dark Eldar can earn something by making the opponent wait, that's an unusual mechanic waiting for some advantage to be taken of it.

In all fairness, it's not much, but Scourges reaching the table on turn 3 will have 4+ with 5+ FnP, which in the cases where their save and FnP applies is as much as a 3+ Save.

Nothing huge really

I agree. It's a nice little buff. It's just very situational (i.e. terrible against Eldar who have a plethora of multi-shot S6 weaponry) and not something to depend on. Doesn't make it worthless.

There's a lot of truth in that, but Dark Eldar can earn something by making the opponent wait, that's an unusual mechanic waiting for some advantage to be taken of it.

Which only works if their opponent is static or very slow, and I don't think there are many static or slow armies in the age of MS missions. Stalling can work in tournaments or when an army is very resilient. But when it is made of paper it doesn't work well. Taking eldar ally helps of course, but that is more due to how good WaveSerpents are and not some magical synergy DE have with them.

Im not positive I know why this thread was even started.

You pretty much answered your own question in the first post.

However, my guess is your friend probably isnt that interested in winning at all costs, as few people actually are.
In fact its probably that he wants to enjoy the game and the hobby, and in that instance it is a complete irrelevance as to which is more powerful.
I picked dark eldar purely on the look of the scourge box.
I quite lierally knew nothing about how the army performed or even the rules. My mate told me to pick an army, I did, and im happy with my choice.
The new codex is great, not the most powerful dex in the world, but that doesnt really matter.

but if the only factor that your concerned with is 'I seem to lose more to Eldar than anything else' and make your army choice based on this, then you will find yourself very disapointed when GW finally comes to its senses and brings eldar into line with every other army.

Pick the models you like, and have at least a clue about how you want to play, and make your choice ont hat, as the game is too expensive to do it any other way.

Also, I quite like the idea of a Talos hitting the Wraithknight with Inchor Injectors. But if im being honest, dont know what the initiative difference is.

 SweaterKittens wrote:
For me, it's that Dark Eldar are, well, dark. They get all the cool toys and sleek style that the Eldar have but without all the angst. If Eldar are the emo kid that sits by himself and wonders why he doesn't have any friends, Dark Eldar are his older twin brother that smokes cigarettes and rides a motorcycle without a helmet because he's a loose cannon. And he gets all the chicks.

Which he then takes home to gruesomely torture and murder them in his basement...

You play Dark Eldar if you're masochistic. That is all.

Dark Eldar hold up to Eldar much better now, only not standing a chance to dedicated Serpent Spam, as in 4+. Dark Eldar have tools that can take down Serpents, they can easily smoke a Wraith Knight while the Wraithknight is woefully ineffective at taking out Dark Eldar transports (3+ jink saves). Reavers and Scourges, when used in tandem, will put serious pressure on an Eldar player. Scourges are rocking 4 Haywire Blasters, when they shoot at a Serpent, it will jink, making it ineffective at taking down Reavers (3+ Jink Save, 5+ FnP vs Scatter and 5+/5++ vs Serpent Shield). Reavers on the other hand are ace at taking down Serpents, a unit of 6 with 2 Cluster Caltrops is amazingly cheap and can wreck a Serpent with ease.

Speaking from experience here, our fast attack is quite simply amazing. Add that to some of our new formations, such as the Dark Artisan formation. What can serpents do against that other then move away? 9 T 7 3+/4++ wounds on scary models will give great board control when deepstruck with precision, forcing serpents forward.

My 1850 list has 3 Scourges, 2 units of 6 Reavers with troops being filled with Raider Boats (better then Venoms, 3++ Jink) lead by the Dark Artisan formation. It works.

So to reiterate, Dark Eldar are not a weak army that will get stomped by every Eldar player who carries around a Wave Serpent. So don't let yourself be tricked into thinking they are an noncompetitive army. In fact, they are one of the only armies around that can reliably Murder the adamantium lance formation with relive ease.

As someone who started out playing Eldar before switching to Dark Eldar, I would say that winning with Dark Eldar feels more rewarding because (at least for me), more thought goes into tactics, particularly movement and positioning, with my Dark Eldar. I also had to put more thought into list building, specifically thinking about how each unit fits into the army as a whole and how it synergizes with the other units around it. When I play my Dark Eldar, I feel like I'm playing a cohesive army. When I played Eldar, I feel like I'm playing a bunch of all-star units that don't really need to work together much because they're so strong on their own.

Also, as others have already mentioned, beware picking a codex based on its current power level. Look at what's about to happen to MSS in two days (if the Q&A is accurate). Nerfed into uselessness. People complained as much, if not more, about Wave Serpents than they did MSS, so I can't even imagine the nerf beating Wave Serpents will receive in the next Eldar codex. Based on 7th edition releases so far, I'd expect the next Eldar codex to be toned down considerably so that it is in line with the rest of the 7th edition books. If your friend chooses Eldar, he may have to re-learn how to play them (and purchase a bunch of new models) when the new book comes out...and Necrons was the last codex that needed a hard cover, so GW is ready to start redoing the early 6th edition books.

morgoth wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

The big difference between Eldar and Dark Eldar is that DE strike a lot harder and are even more made out of paper.

How do DE strike a lot harder?

Well, for the same number of points, the firepower you can get from Dark Eldar is amazing.
They're just even more glass and even more cannon.

For 120 points, you get 5 Scourges with 4 Heat Lances (S6AP1 Melta) with Deep Strike (Jump infantry), save 4+.
For 65 points, you get a dual cannon Venom with 12 shots of poison 4+, AV10.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Also, DE have reasonable CC units whereas Eldar just suck at it.

Wraithknight says 'hi'.

TWC says hi.
Yes, Eldar suck at CC.

The WK is a monster against a punching ball (or vehicle) but he's not good at ultimate fighting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:

CW have an Apple-esque design philosophy

That's just the most disgusting thing I've read today.

Nether eldar or DE have problems with TWC.

 Xenomancers wrote:

morgoth wrote:

TWC says hi.
Yes, Eldar suck at CC.

The WK is a monster against a punching ball (or vehicle) but he's not good at ultimate fighting.

Nether eldar or DE have problems with TWC.

Indeed, neither of them have problems with TWC. But you still don't want to challenge a pack of TWC with a WraithKnight.

Point being: WK is not a good CC unit.

morgoth wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

morgoth wrote:

TWC says hi.
Yes, Eldar suck at CC.

The WK is a monster against a punching ball (or vehicle) but he's not good at ultimate fighting.

Nether eldar or DE have problems with TWC.

Indeed, neither of them have problems with TWC. But you still don't want to challenge a pack of TWC with a WraithKnight.

Point being: WK is not a good CC unit.

I can't really think of a unit that really wants to get into CC with them. LOL.They give my DA, and GK lots of problems. Typically I'll hit them with 3 dreadknights..thats even gone south a few times with poor rolls.

morgoth wrote:

Point being: WK is not a good CC unit.

I don't follow your logic on this.

Is a melee unit not allowed to be good unless it can beat TWC?

I mean, I know a lot of dedicated melee units that don't want to go anywhere near a WK. Does that make them bad?

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Point being: WK is not a good CC unit.

I don't follow your logic on this.

Is a melee unit not allowed to be good unless it can beat TWC?

I mean, I know a lot of dedicated melee units that don't want to go anywhere near a WK. Does that make them bad?

I agree with you...TWC is a whole other bag of worms...They have ultimate defensive and offensive stats - hands down the best CC unit coming out of a marine codex. Possibly the best CC unit in the game for the price.

 Xenomancers wrote:

I agree with you...TWC is a whole other bag of worms...They have ultimate defensive and offensive stats - hands down the best CC unit coming out of a marine codex. Possibly the best CC unit in the game for the price.

Agreed.

What makes them even better is that they can be joined by a TWC Lord with 4 wounds, a 2+ save and an AP2 sword that strikes at initiative. So, he can soak up normal wounds (making it incredibly hard to torrent them to death with poison shooting or small-arms fire), whilst any AP2 can be moved to normal TWC with LoS. And, he can also remove many troublesome units/characters before they even get to swing.

 vipoid wrote:

morgoth wrote:

Point being: WK is not a good CC unit.

I don't follow your logic on this.

Is a melee unit not allowed to be good unless it can beat TWC?

I mean, I know a lot of dedicated melee units that don't want to go anywhere near a WK. Does that make them bad?

TWC is just one among many CC threats the WK is afraid of.

But you're right, it could be a good CC unit still.

In my opinion it's not because it doesn't have the volume of attacks for the point cost.

It has excellent quality attacks that give him Instant Death on pretty much anything, but I don't feel safe sending him against anything but defenseless creatures like vehicles, weaker MCs without instant death and that's about it.

Let's be fair, the WK even struggles against an equal cost of hammernators, that's not good at all. You kill one before they strike, and then you get 12S8AP2 attacks in the jaws, that's one dead WK right there.

It has the definite advantage of being its own transport, but to me he's a tank splitter, not a dedicated CC unit.

daBIGboss wrote:To me it seems Eldar are just completely stronger all round, so I just want to know what exactly it is that Dark Eldar do better than Eldar?

Because not everybody is trying to win as easily as possible.

There are a LOT of other things to consider than simple army strength. Playstyle, army aesthetics, etc.

vipoid wrote:I mean, I know a lot of dedicated melee units that don't want to go anywhere near a WK. Does that make them bad?

Yes, anything other than the easiest win is unplayable garbage that you should vomit all over yourself for even thinking about.

But not even that's enough. You must then purge the taint from your soul for even beginning to believe there could be other options other than the one, true option. It will takes weeks of self-flagellation, and committing penance by giving away all of your worldly possessions. Only then will you be deemed worthy to offer yourself up as a human sacrifice to Arthaxchoatl, the ancient Aztec god of unplayable garbage units in 40k. As the last of your blood seeps out of your ruined carcass, only then can the anger of the almighty finally be assuaged, and humanity itself may be allowed to continue to survive.

That is, unless someone else begins to wonder if there are units someone could take that can achieve something without being the best in the entire game at it.

I'm not talking about power gaming and playing them because they're the Meta, I'm just asking when comparing the two armies, what incentive would there be to play DE over Eldar when comparing their ability on the table.

I know DE is definitely a strong and competitive army, but it is hard to compare when their cousins codex is currently a league above all others.

My friend has picked Dark Eldar (thank goodness).

People love to mathhammer, when in reality anything can be good. Wave serpents? Cant use their shields to block a pen if they used it for shooting, so then the 2 str 9 lance will destroy them with no problem turn two, or the blast str 9 bomb...or the tonnes of str 8 lances used by basic troops...

Glad to hear he went with what sounds like appealed to him more!

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
People love to mathhammer, when in reality anything can be good. Wave serpents? Cant use their shields to block a pen if they used it for shooting, so then the 2 str 9 lance will destroy them with no problem turn two, or the blast str 9 bomb...or the tonnes of str 8 lances used by basic troops...

The reason people like mathhammer is because without it you get uninformed tripe like this.

Let's examine your statements, shall we?

Well, right off the bat we seem to be assuming that the serpent shield hasn't destroyed anything or even made something jink (so there's no loss of firepower for us). This seems very optimistic, to say the least - especially when a WS will, on average, kill even a jinking Ravager (and it's likely that the Eldar player will have more than one WS).

But, whatever, let's move on to your bold claim that 2 S9 Lances will destroy said WS on turn 2 no problem. So, here's my question, how? How are you accomplishing this with anything resembling certainty? I know you hate maths (probably because it proves just how idiotic your claims are), but let's look at it:

2 Void Lances will hit 2/3 times. Against AV12, they will penetrate 1/2 of the time. And, since WS aren't open-topped, they have a 1/6 chance to explode them. So, that gives us a 1/9 chance of destroying the WS with those void lances. How, pray, does this translate to 'will destroy it no problem'. To put this in perspective, you could fire those lances at a WS every turn in a 7-turn game, and you still aren't averaging a single 'explodes' result. And, that's assuming it doesn't jink (which is might well do - since it can then both avoid damage and also shoot your aircraft with no additional penalty next turn). If it does jink, then you're down to a 1/18 (5.6%) chance of exploding it.

With regard to the "tonnes of S8 lances used by basic troops", that also seems blindly optimistic. For a start, most troops will only be carrying a single blaster (to retain mobility), which has an 18" range. So, right off the bat, how are you getting that anywhere near a WS - which can comfortably shoot down your transports from twice that distance? Next, let's look at how many lances you'd actually need. Well, first we'll look at the chance to explode a WS:
2/3 x 1/3 x 1/6 = 1/27 So, that's 27 lances to explode a WS (54 if it jinks).
Well, what about just stripping HPs?
2/3 x 1/2 = 1/3 So, to strip all 3 HPs, we'd need 9 Dark Lances (18 if it jinks).

Also, have you noticed the second flaw in your argument? Dark Lances are so atrociously bad at exploding vehicles, that the Serpent Shield is basically irrelevant. In fact, you'd probably hope that the Eldar player *doesn't* fire it so that your vehicles have a better chance of surviving.

Anyway, if we fill up our troop slots, we can have 5 lots of 5 Warriors with Blasters, in Raiders with Dark Lances. That costs 575pts and gets us 10 Lances. So, now, if all our troops survive and make it to within 18" of the WS, and the WS doesn't jink, we can statistically kill it. So, for a mere 575pts of DE, we've managed to kill a single 130pt Eldar transport. You think this is somehow a good deal on our part?

But, even if we go the (somewhat) more efficient route with 3 DL Ravagers (saving ourselves 200pts), we run into a similar problem - it takes 1 WS to kill a jinking Ravager, but 3 Ravagers to kill a non-jinking WS. So, even if the DE player goes first and kills a WS, the Eldar player can shoot back with his two remaining WSs - destroying 2/3 Ravagers. Now, the Ravager is very unlikely to do any significant damage, whilst the WSs will almost certainly kill it in their next turn. And, this is assuming the Eldar player only had 3 WSs - unlike Ravagers they don't use up HS slots and so he could easily have more. Furthermore, this is also assuming the DE player went first - if the Eldar player gets the first shot, he can easily destroy all 3 Ravagers without breaking a sweat. Or, in the troop example, he could destroy 3 Raiders - removing 3 Dark Lances outright and leaving 3 blasters stranded.

Do you perhaps see why people who like mathhammer get fed up with non-mathhammer people just pulling fantastical and misleading statements out of the air?

Vipoid, you're using the wrong units for the job.
I know this was suggested by someone with a weird nickname, but I think those discussions should be fixed at the root: i.e. let's discuss something that makes sense to begin with.

Like scourges with haywire blasters for example.

120 points, 4 Haywire shots, power from pain, jump infantry Sv4+
For the price of a Wave Serpent + crew (generally about 205 - 195 points), you get about 6,5 Haywire shots, 4,3 hits, 1.44 glances, a pen without AP or a fail now and then.

Arguably this is not exactly crazy efficiency, but two turns to kill one of the more resilient cover save abusers in the game sounds fair to me.
Alternatively, one could try heat lances, which would deal more pens and less glances, maybe a better deal, but with shorter range and sensitivity to armor facing.

Where it gets crazy, is that you get 4.3 glances on a Land Raider or just about anything else that doesn't have Jink, and 2.15 glances on most Jink units.
And if you went the Heat Lance route, you'll have a slightly harder time on the Land Raider (6+7 is just 13 after all), but you can butcher 2+ units like a Riptide or GK in general.

Yes, mathhammer is relevant, with a pinch of salt and consideration for real game use (like those Scourges are going to Deep Strike, mishap 20% of the time maybe depending on your playstyle, and die 3% of the time because of that, with another 7% of very likely dead).

morgoth wrote:
Vipoid, you're using the wrong units for the job.
I know this was suggested by someone with a weird nickname, but I think those discussions should be fixed at the root: i.e. let's discuss something that makes sense to begin with.

That's kind of the point though - I was responding to the suggestion that Lances in general are somehow amazing against WSs.

morgoth wrote:

Like scourges with haywire blasters for example.

120 points, 4 Haywire shots, power from pain, jump infantry Sv4+
For the price of a Wave Serpent + crew (generally about 205 - 195 points), you get about 6,5 Haywire shots, 4,3 hits, 1.44 glances, a pen without AP or a fail now and then.

Arguably this is not exactly crazy efficiency, but two turns to kill one of the more resilient cover save abusers in the game sounds fair to me.
Alternatively, one could try heat lances, which would deal more pens and less glances, maybe a better deal, but with shorter range and sensitivity to armor facing.

Where it gets crazy, is that you get 4.3 glances on a Land Raider or just about anything else that doesn't have Jink, and 2.15 glances on most Jink units.
And if you went the Heat Lance route, you'll have a slightly harder time on the Land Raider (6+7 is just 13 after all), but you can butcher 2+ units like a Riptide or GK in general.

Yes, mathhammer is relevant, with a pinch of salt and consideration for real game use (like those Scourges are going to Deep Strike, mishap 20% of the time maybe depending on your playstyle, and die 3% of the time because of that, with another 7% of very likely dead).

The problem with Haywire Scourges is that they're only good against vehicles - so if you find yourself against, say a nid list, they're not going to be much use. If you know you're going to be against Eldar (or another list with durable vehicles), then all well and good. But, if you're trying to make a TAC list, then they can easily be dead-weight. Sadly, 40k is very rock-paper-scissors in this edition.

I agree though - Haywire Scourges are almost certainly the best way to take out a WS. Their one issue is likely to be range - they have 24" (36" if they move), whilst WSs have 36" range (42-48" if they move). So, getting the first shot could be a problem - and a WS will easily wipe out a Scourge squad that exposes itself.

 vipoid wrote:


The problem with Haywire Scourges is that they're only good against vehicles - so if you find yourself against, say a nid list, they're not going to be much use. If you know you're going to be against Eldar (or another list with durable vehicles), then all well and good. But, if you're trying to make a TAC list, then they can easily be dead-weight. Sadly, 40k is very rock-paper-scissors in this edition.

I agree though - Haywire Scourges are almost certainly the best way to take out a WS. Their one issue is likely to be range - they have 24" (36" if they move), whilst WSs have 36" range (42-48" if they move). So, getting the first shot could be a problem - and a WS will easily wipe out a Scourge squad that exposes itself.

Yeah well, except against Nids they're going to be much use. It's a bit like Melta you know, when I pay 110 points for my Fire Dragons, I'm losing a lot every time I'm not facing AV13 massed or AV14.
In that case, it seems to me that the Heat Lance is a great choice, with 9" melta range and all.

I think you overestimate the issue of range, 24" + 12" movement is plenty on a 48"x72" table.
The threat bubble you have from deploying dead center forward in your deployment zone, at 36", covers 95% of the table.
Plus, they're Deep Strike units, so it really doesn't matter that much.

Anyway, great miniatures, great use, a good example of how Dark Eldar can pack a punch but can't handle being punched

Tell your friend, it's not about current army power level. It's about the models, the fluff and aesthetics. I tried out probably 7 armies before coming to the Dark Eldar, I've stuck with them the longest and haven't looked back. I absolutely love my DE! Best model range in the game!