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Still, I do like the rules and I want others to like them too, so whenever I see ITEN mentioned, I try to point folks toward the complete ruleset that will give them the most fun with the least amount of DIY and confusion, that being 2.0.
I had no idea ITEN 3 was different people. I guess I didn't really look that closely.
2.0 works. Good call on that. If I recommend the game in the future, I'll use the link to 2.0
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
I could be wrong, but I think 3.0 is many of the same folks that worked on 2.0, but without the involvement or guidance of Craig, the original writer.
I think most of Craig's gaming publishing for the last few years has been focused on In Her Magesty's name. It's a game I'm really looking forward to playing when my RAFM Steamship pirates KS delivers later this year.
I use 54mm colonials, Franco-Prussian War and Union ACW figures/toy soldiers plus repainted plastic dinosaurs and scratchbuilt bits and bobs. Most of my stuff is a hollow earth type scenario where the Great Powers are sending expeditions down below.
The core system works though. Whether it's ITEN 2.0 or Osprey's printed steampunk stuff. It's a good place to start for "small 40k"
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
frozenwastes wrote: I use 54mm colonials, Franco-Prussian War and Union ACW figures/toy soldiers plus repainted plastic dinosaurs and scratchbuilt bits and bobs. Most of my stuff is a hollow earth type scenario where the Great Powers are sending expeditions down below.
That sounds really Awesome! Large scale 1800's pulp adventure!
Absolutionis wrote: Try Yhatzee. It's a nice game like 40k with the same strategic depth (roll dice, reroll dice, etc) and the same amount of fun. You don't even have to use miniatures!
Although, you can. You could put any amount of miniatures in front of one another and play a few games of Yhatzee.
This thread made me download the 2nd edition battle bible. I read the whole rules section while I waited for my floor to dry. I didn't even look at 40k until I think it was late 3rd to 4th, and it took me several days and re-reading to understand the newest incarnation of rules.
I'd like to think I'm not a dumb person, but that book certainly makes me feel like it.
Kill Team - combines all the grimdark of 40k (which is the only good thing left to the franchise) with a small enough scale that you can actually remember all the USRs you need to play.
Personally I liked the game I played with these rules better than the 40K supplement that came out during 6th edition. It still utilizes the 40 K big rule book but there are some changes on certain rules etc.
Now, most of you know of this I am sure, and a good lot of you have proberbly played it at some point, but that leaves the question: Why don't we see more to it? It is quality work, unofficial of course, but mostly balanced, fun to use and it fixes a lot of the problems the game has, so why isn't it more widespread? Aren't people talking about it on the forums for some reason, or is it really that unknown?
I have ditched regular 40K completely for the moment being, as I find HoR Kill Team to be the best way to play the game, and for that very reason I'd like to give my reasons as to why you should play it too! Be free to ask questions or add to the list, the more the merrier!
1. It's FREE!: Or, mostly free. You'll still need the Codex for most of the factions and the main rulebook, but the supplement itself is completely free, available on the blog itself.
2. No loopholes!: When making supplements like this, the easiest way to add all available options for all factions would be to allow, say, all factions to take "One elite slot for each Troops" and weird stuff like that, but Heralds of Ruin didn't do that - Oh no. They made an entire Army List for EVERY faction currently in the game, with new entries and limitations to keep exploitation down. Enjoy a complete and revised version of you favourite army's list and make something truly unique to this game!
3. It has NEW content, too!: Have you ever wanted to play Deathwatch in 40K, for real? Or maybe Adebtus Arbites? What about Genestealer Cults? HoR Kill Team has all that, and more! It is very obvious that the producers of the supplements are fans and want the very same stuff everyone else want from regular 40K, so look forward to be able to play the factions who are normally unusable or simply not represented in anything other than fluff! Not only that, but all factions have their own list of Relics and Armory items to really personificate your dudes!
4. Fixed, revised rebuilt!: Tired of having your faction bite the dust all the time? Well, the creators of Kill Team certainly seemed like it, so most of the traditionally weak factions have now been put up to speed - Not only does the small and claustrophobic environment of a 250 pt game allow each model to be more than mere cannonfodder, the rules themselves very changed and added to for many individual models, allowing you to use models that would otherwise be completely useless in game (I.e the entire goddamn Sisters of Battle Codex).
5. Far less cheese!: Tired of Ion Accelerator Riptides and Leman Russ Battle Tanks wiping out whole squads with impunity? Well, here's your answer to those shengians - They aren't in there! Only models and units who can roughly compete are in the game, and so Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures are almost untakable, allowing the footsoldiers and veterans to really shine!
6. Cover is a thing!: It is explicitly stated in the main HoR Kill Team rule book that a proper game of Kill Team should be played on as cover-heavy and claustrophobic a board as possible, allowing models who are usually weak and frail to really shine - Stalk through ruins with melee assassins, or achieve control over the streets by putting you Devastator on a rooftop! If you are currently thinking of Necromunda or Mordheim, good - You are paying attention!
7. It's a cheap game!: For most Teams you won't need more than a few boxes of models, who most of you should already have, so there's no excuse when talking about the availability of models! You just need some terrain and you are golden!
8. It's cinematic and dramatic!: We all know how Gets Hot works, but wouldn't it be awesome if it was represented the way Plasma were meant to be, by making them EXPLODE? What about having people catch fire when hit by Flamers? What if you were actually allowed to jump around ruins with your Wyches, gaining a Strength advantage when making a jumping attack? All this is a part of Kill Team, alongside more optional rules like Injury rules and similar!
9. It has a Campaign Mode!: If you know how Necromunda and Mordheim are like when in Campaign mode, then you know what this is all about - Build your team through battles, upgrade their gear, give them new team mates, by base upgrades and Battle Honours to furhter hone their skills. It's not just a game of upgrading though, as you have to mind your model count, buy new recruits and exploit your enemies weaknesses, or you will be left in the dust by players far stronger than you!
Now, most of you know of this I am sure, and a good lot of you have proberbly played it at some point, but that leaves the question: Why don't we see more to it? It is quality work, unofficial of course, but mostly balanced, fun to use and it fixes a lot of the problems the game has, so why isn't it more widespread? Aren't people talking about it on the forums for some reason, or is it really that unknown?
I have ditched regular 40K completely for the moment being, as I find HoR Kill Team to be the best way to play the game, and for that very reason I'd like to give my reasons as to why you should play it too! Be free to ask questions or add to the list, the more the merrier!
Spoiler:
1. It's FREE!: Or, mostly free. You'll still need the Codex for most of the factions and the main rulebook, but the supplement itself is completely free, available on the blog itself.
2. No loopholes!: When making supplements like this, the easiest way to add all available options for all factions would be to allow, say, all factions to take "One elite slot for each Troops" and weird stuff like that, but Heralds of Ruin didn't do that - Oh no. They made an entire Army List for EVERY faction currently in the game, with new entries and limitations to keep exploitation down. Enjoy a complete and revised version of you favourite army's list and make something truly unique to this game!
3. It has NEW content, too!: Have you ever wanted to play Deathwatch in 40K, for real? Or maybe Adebtus Arbites? What about Genestealer Cults? HoR Kill Team has all that, and more! It is very obvious that the producers of the supplements are fans and want the very same stuff everyone else want from regular 40K, so look forward to be able to play the factions who are normally unusable or simply not represented in anything other than fluff! Not only that, but all factions have their own list of Relics and Armory items to really personificate your dudes!
4. Fixed, revised rebuilt!: Tired of having your faction bite the dust all the time? Well, the creators of Kill Team certainly seemed like it, so most of the traditionally weak factions have now been put up to speed - Not only does the small and claustrophobic environment of a 250 pt game allow each model to be more than mere cannonfodder, the rules themselves very changed and added to for many individual models, allowing you to use models that would otherwise be completely useless in game (I.e the entire goddamn Sisters of Battle Codex).
5. Far less cheese!: Tired of Ion Accelerator Riptides and Leman Russ Battle Tanks wiping out whole squads with impunity? Well, here's your answer to those shengians - They aren't in there! Only models and units who can roughly compete are in the game, and so Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures are almost untakable, allowing the footsoldiers and veterans to really shine!
6. Cover is a thing!: It is explicitly stated in the main HoR Kill Team rule book that a proper game of Kill Team should be played on as cover-heavy and claustrophobic a board as possible, allowing models who are usually weak and frail to really shine - Stalk through ruins with melee assassins, or achieve control over the streets by putting you Devastator on a rooftop! If you are currently thinking of Necromunda or Mordheim, good - You are paying attention!
7. It's a cheap game!: For most Teams you won't need more than a few boxes of models, who most of you should already have, so there's no excuse when talking about the availability of models! You just need some terrain and you are golden!
8. It's cinematic and dramatic!: We all know how Gets Hot works, but wouldn't it be awesome if it was represented the way Plasma were meant to be, by making them EXPLODE? What about having people catch fire when hit by Flamers? What if you were actually allowed to jump around ruins with your Wyches, gaining a Strength advantage when making a jumping attack? All this is a part of Kill Team, alongside more optional rules like Injury rules and similar!
9. It has a Campaign Mode!: If you know how Necromunda and Mordheim are like when in Campaign mode, then you know what this is all about - Build your team through battles, upgrade their gear, give them new team mates, by base upgrades and Battle Honours to furhter hone their skills. It's not just a game of upgrading though, as you have to mind your model count, buy new recruits and exploit your enemies weaknesses, or you will be left in the dust by players far stronger than you
Sounds pretty cool. Which version(s) of 40k is Heralds of Ruin compatible with? I'm completely done buying 40k rulebooks and didn't buy the current edition. However, like most former 40k players I have alot of old codices, rulebooks and figures. If I can use earlier editions it'd be something I might try. If it's made for the current edition than it becomes a $100+ game.
Now, most of you know of this I am sure, and a good lot of you have proberbly played it at some point, but that leaves the question: Why don't we see more to it? It is quality work, unofficial of course, but mostly balanced, fun to use and it fixes a lot of the problems the game has, so why isn't it more widespread? Aren't people talking about it on the forums for some reason, or is it really that unknown?
I have ditched regular 40K completely for the moment being, as I find HoR Kill Team to be the best way to play the game, and for that very reason I'd like to give my reasons as to why you should play it too! Be free to ask questions or add to the list, the more the merrier!
Spoiler:
1. It's FREE!: Or, mostly free. You'll still need the Codex for most of the factions and the main rulebook, but the supplement itself is completely free, available on the blog itself.
2. No loopholes!: When making supplements like this, the easiest way to add all available options for all factions would be to allow, say, all factions to take "One elite slot for each Troops" and weird stuff like that, but Heralds of Ruin didn't do that - Oh no. They made an entire Army List for EVERY faction currently in the game, with new entries and limitations to keep exploitation down. Enjoy a complete and revised version of you favourite army's list and make something truly unique to this game!
3. It has NEW content, too!: Have you ever wanted to play Deathwatch in 40K, for real? Or maybe Adebtus Arbites? What about Genestealer Cults? HoR Kill Team has all that, and more! It is very obvious that the producers of the supplements are fans and want the very same stuff everyone else want from regular 40K, so look forward to be able to play the factions who are normally unusable or simply not represented in anything other than fluff! Not only that, but all factions have their own list of Relics and Armory items to really personificate your dudes!
4. Fixed, revised rebuilt!: Tired of having your faction bite the dust all the time? Well, the creators of Kill Team certainly seemed like it, so most of the traditionally weak factions have now been put up to speed - Not only does the small and claustrophobic environment of a 250 pt game allow each model to be more than mere cannonfodder, the rules themselves very changed and added to for many individual models, allowing you to use models that would otherwise be completely useless in game (I.e the entire goddamn Sisters of Battle Codex).
5. Far less cheese!: Tired of Ion Accelerator Riptides and Leman Russ Battle Tanks wiping out whole squads with impunity? Well, here's your answer to those shengians - They aren't in there! Only models and units who can roughly compete are in the game, and so Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures are almost untakable, allowing the footsoldiers and veterans to really shine!
6. Cover is a thing!: It is explicitly stated in the main HoR Kill Team rule book that a proper game of Kill Team should be played on as cover-heavy and claustrophobic a board as possible, allowing models who are usually weak and frail to really shine - Stalk through ruins with melee assassins, or achieve control over the streets by putting you Devastator on a rooftop! If you are currently thinking of Necromunda or Mordheim, good - You are paying attention!
7. It's a cheap game!: For most Teams you won't need more than a few boxes of models, who most of you should already have, so there's no excuse when talking about the availability of models! You just need some terrain and you are golden!
8. It's cinematic and dramatic!: We all know how Gets Hot works, but wouldn't it be awesome if it was represented the way Plasma were meant to be, by making them EXPLODE? What about having people catch fire when hit by Flamers? What if you were actually allowed to jump around ruins with your Wyches, gaining a Strength advantage when making a jumping attack? All this is a part of Kill Team, alongside more optional rules like Injury rules and similar!
9. It has a Campaign Mode!: If you know how Necromunda and Mordheim are like when in Campaign mode, then you know what this is all about - Build your team through battles, upgrade their gear, give them new team mates, by base upgrades and Battle Honours to furhter hone their skills. It's not just a game of upgrading though, as you have to mind your model count, buy new recruits and exploit your enemies weaknesses, or you will be left in the dust by players far stronger than you
Sounds pretty cool. Which version(s) of 40k is Heralds of Ruin compatible with? I'm completely done buying 40k rulebooks and didn't buy the current edition. However, like most former 40k players I have alot of old codices, rulebooks and figures. If I can use earlier editions it'd be something I might try. If it's made for the current edition than it becomes a $100+ game.
Yeah, well... 7th Ed. All their armu lists are always updated to the newest edtion, and I'm pretty sure you can't get the older versions easily. I can help you get the basics about the game as it is now, if you want, though.
I find that the HoR version worked fine with 6th, as well, you just don't slot in the new psychic rules and forget using the random cards objectives because the boards are too big.
I do find, though, that the Inquisition army list can be a bit broken if you have a lot of terrain to hide in. Assassin, Priests and Crusaders can be brutal in a skirmish game. I was never on the receiving end so it wasn't *my* problem, but I could tell after a few games that it was always at the same point that the opponent stopped enjoying it. So I toned it down a bit.
GamesWorkshop wrote: And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Along the Kill Team line there is also One Page Rules's version of Kill Team. It's most certainly not as cinematic as the HoR set. However, the rules are free and don't require referencing other rule books. Since it's free, it's definitely worth a look.
The other thing you could do it revisit the old "Combat Patrol" setup from 4th edition.
Basically, it was a cleaned-up version of the even older "40K in 40 Minutes" rules, where it basically boiled down to:
-Remove the Force Organization requirements (two troops, one HQ)
-No models with more than 2 wounds
-No armor saves better than 3+
-The combines armor value of the front and both sides of a vehicle cannot exceed 13.
I think there were a couple others, but that was the gist of it. It made for really fun little games of 40K, where it was basically impossible to take anything that can break the game at that level. Unfortunately, that was before everybody and their brother got a crazy USR (back in 4th there was about 20 USR's total and most had already existed since 3rd in individual army codex books), so some of those might have bumped even units that you can get into a 500pt force into the overpowered territory. I don't know as I have not played games of 6th or 7th.
But Kill Team in any edition since it came out is a good way to go, too. Also, two good friends using the 2nd edition battle bible and basically removing squad cohesion and just buying individual models for their points cost (so your force could be a character in terminator armor, three tactical marines and two assault marines) gives you the gameplay of Necromunda with the wider 40K races.
Edit: Wow. I just checked out the Heralds of Ruin Kill Team rules, and those are top notch. I have had no wish to play games with 7th edition rules, but I would seriously think about getting the main rulebook, it's just a bummer you need the codex for each force just for certain information. It would be great if all you needed was a mini-rulebook and the free rules.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/11 04:10:42
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
I've been having a lot of fun with Infinity and Warmachine recently; neither are really that similar to 40k, Warmachine has model synergy and strange interactions up the wazoo with a larger selection of things your smaller pool of models can do and closer-ranged more manoeuvre-intensive combat, Infinity is very small-scale and the turn structure is arranged like nothing else in the world (in Warhammer you can't get tabled on your turn). Both are fairly dark but not quite so GRIMDARK as 40k, both have much cleaner and better-written rules, and both are quick to play and work well at small model counts. Infinity's got the advantage of a lot of the rules coming free online (not all of them, you need the rulebook for some), in Warmachine you only need the core book (or the small-scale core book from the starter box) to properly start playing since the rules for every model actually come with the model.
Using FFG's 40kRPG rules as a base might also work well.
However, I'm thinking both Inquisitor and FFG's games will have a bit more detail and be just as overwhelming and not quite what the OP is looking for. If someone else wants less models, but more detail, it may be an avenue worth pursuing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/11 20:36:05
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
frozenwastes wrote: Using FFG's 40kRPG rules as a base might also work well.
However, I'm thinking both Inquisitor and FFG's games will have a bit more detail and be just as overwhelming and not quite what the OP is looking for. If someone else wants less models, but more detail, it may be an avenue worth pursuing.
Yeah, INQ is really a figure-based RPG. I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what the OP is going for.
Yeah, much more involved than 40K, if 40K is already being deemed too complicated. The game is fun in it's own way, but is definitely not for pick up and play games like 40K.
*Sigh* I just wish I didn't have to buy all the codexes for my forces again to use those cool HoR Kill Team rules. Three editions of codexes for the armies I play is enough, I'm afraid. I don't have the 7th edition books for any army, and I really don't want to pay their high prices just for access to the weapon stats and some special rules definitions, even if some forces like Deathwatch and Vanilla marines can share a codex.
Maybe I'll have to use the HoR rules as an adaptation for use with earlier edition rules/codexes, because I really like their leader/core/special framework approach towards force composition, which would work with every edition I can think of(even 2nd), with just some points value increases and most of the friggin' plethora of USR rules being dropped.
It's wierd. I hate the USR explosion of normal 40K, but in a game where a force only has a handful of models, the depth is quite nice. But man, I hate the idea of spending $40 just to I can reference what that Tactical Marine's "Born on a Tuesday under the sign of Cernunnos" ability does when i just want to shoot that Ork cowering in the ruins.
*Whining mode-off*
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/12 01:29:50
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
AegisGrimm wrote:Maybe I'll have to use the HoR rules as an adaptation for use with earlier edition rules/codexes, because I really like their leader/core/special framework approach towards force composition, which would work with every edition I can think of(even 2nd), with just some points value increases and most of the friggin' plethora of USR rules being dropped.
I think you should be able to adapt it to the old versions just fine.
It's wierd. I hate the USR explosion of normal 40K, but in a game where a force only has a handful of models, the depth is quite nice. But man, I hate the idea of spending $40 just to I can reference what that Tactical Marine's "Born on a Tuesday under the sign of Cernunnos" ability does when i just want to shoot that Ork cowering in the ruins.
*Whining mode-off*
You could always just go forum hunting. I'm sure somewhere someone has outlined what they think of the rules and given enough information to figure out what it does.
Here's a general tactics thread on Blood Angels that I'm sure has a surprising amount of information as people talk back and forth about what's better and how things work. There's probably something similar somewhere for most of the new codexes that have come out.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/12 06:08:58
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
Combat Patrol is a version of 40K that uses 400 points. Relax the Force Org Chart and possibly minimum unit sizes and you can play 40K with fewer points. Enjoy it for the fun of it. The game will play differently, but should be greatly enjoyable as a short game.
Combat Patrol was(is) a really fun way to be able to still play some games while you are building a new army, or just plain want to have faster games without the most powerful units in attendance.
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
AegisGrimm wrote: *Sigh* I just wish I didn't have to buy all the codexes for my forces again to use those cool HoR Kill Team rules. Three editions of codexes for the armies I play is enough, I'm afraid.
HoR have army lists and everything. I wouldn't even open the BRB if I were playing HoR Kill Team. Everything is pretty much there.
I do not have the 7th ed rulebook- does it at least have all the USR's and/or most of the weapon profiles in it? I assumed that you need the codexes in addition to the HOR lists because while the HoR material has troops costs and profiles, you need the codex books for referencing weapon stats and army-specific USR's. I'm pretty green when it comes to 7th ed- the last print edition I owned and played games with was the tail end of 4th, so I am not up on all the rules that exploded since then.
I am more familiar with the days of a whole whopping 20 USR's and 3-shot starcannons, lol.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/12 18:56:16
"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."
None of the documents seem to explain either USRs or army specific special rules. For example, if I look at a Grey Hunter in the Space Wolves document, it has
And They Shall Know No Fear
Acute Senses
Counter-attack
But no where do I find a description of them, so I assume they're in the codex.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
Waaagh an' a 'alf
1500 Pts WIP 
1300 points
Orks is never beaten. 