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 skoffs wrote:

changemod wrote:
Scythe Lychguard are the biggest source of raw kill anything damage in the codex if you can get them into base contact with the thing you want dead..

It's all well and good to say they kill everything, but what do they do SPECIFICALLY that other units don't do better/for cheaper?

Like, if you consider all the basic things you will encounter:
MEQ
TEQ
Horde
MCs
AV 10-14
Flyers
(did I miss any?)

Is there anything that Lychguard specifically excel against when considering cost and speed?

Best at t5 through t7 that has teq or Meq armor saves.

If it has an invulnerable like demons scythe are meh. Against hordes flayed ones are best. Against wraith knights wraiths are better.

scythe are also really good against knights, but most of the necron codex is good against knights.

 skoffs wrote:

changemod wrote:
Scythe Lychguard are the biggest source of raw kill anything damage in the codex if you can get them into base contact with the thing you want dead..

It's all well and good to say they kill everything, but what do they do SPECIFICALLY that other units don't do better/for cheaper?

Like, if you consider all the basic things you will encounter:
MEQ
TEQ
Horde
MCs
AV 10-14
Flyers
(did I miss any?)

Is there anything that Lychguard specifically excel against when considering cost and speed?

Does it matter in the slightest?

You don't need to be a specialist if you can do a generalist job well enough. Lychguard are essentially much cheaper assault terminators with no access to Land Raiders. Given how pricey a Land Raider is I honestly mostly read that as "Cheaper assault terminators".

Either you have a use for supreme killing force or supreme durability on a slow platform, or you don't. It's not overpriced anymore, so validity is based on playstyle and army composition.

It matters in that, while I like Lychguard, because of their extreme slowness, I'm struggling to find a role for them in my army.
If I was facing X and my choice was between LG and something faster but potentially less killy, I'd want to compare to see which would really be the best option.

Right now it's looking like... MCs?
Is there anything that might be able to take out MCs more effectively than Lychguard? (eg. Deathmarks? Massed Scarabs? etc.)

Taking out MC's depends on the MC, wraithknights? take deathmarks. Dreadknights? take scytheguard. Depends on the toughness and armor save of the individual.
As for what can the lychguard do the best? You'll be hard pressed to find a unit that can act as half as effective bodyguards for the same points cost. Sword&board guards with T5 3++ 4+++ will protect an IC better than anything else in the codex , also they have S5 powerswords, so they aren't just a wall.

Edit: Also, Scythe guard are the best tank-hunters in the game, if you have a good delivery system eg, nightscythe + solar staff.

 skoffs wrote:
It matters in that, while I like Lychguard, because of their extreme slowness, I'm struggling to find a role for them in my army.
If I was facing X and my choice was between LG and something faster but potentially less killy, I'd want to compare to see which would really be the best option.

Right now it's looking like... MCs?
Is there anything that might be able to take out MCs more effectively than Lychguard? (eg. Deathmarks? Massed Scarabs? etc.)

What I'm saying is, you're asking as if hunting a specific target is the only role a unit can play.

Hollismason wrote:
It's just a powersword and you're paying 30 ppm to get that 3++, sorry just not a fan. I think it's a terrrrrrible load out.

Umm, they are ridiculously hard to kill, and when backup up by my Overlord with the Voidreaper and a Cryptek with a Solar Staff, the 3 games I've played with them, they haven't been wiped out. At most, my opponent fired what was left of his army on turn 4 at them, and I rolled badly and lost 3 guys. Otherwise, they shred through marines, and the Voidreaper Overlord tears through Terminators. It is a really good loudout. Plus, they're cheaper than SS/TH termies.

We all know they're hard to kill one way and super killy the other way, but that still doesn't solve their speed problems.
The only option you've got for transport besides walking is a Veil or Night Scythe, both of which can get you to the other side of the table, but will leave you sitting there for a turn with nothing to do while their intended target gets further away/your opponent throws speed bumps in their way.
Where as all of the other non-Lychguard units can get there quickly AND immediately threaten/engage their target (maybe except for Flayed Ones).
Apart from being very survivable, LG are kinda redundant...

By this logic any close combat unit in the 40k meta that moves 6" a turn is bad for assault...

"Apart from being very survivable, LG are kinda redundant..."

Well yeah, But apart from shooting things , doom scythes are redundant, Apart from supporting things, stalkers are redundant. Lychguard have a function that they do very well, You take them as a wall/anchor, and nothing will move them. You don't need them to charge the enemy anymore than you need your wraiths to camp the home objective.

Lychguard are unmatched in survivability, and quite frankly it would be ridiculously OP if they did anything else half as well.

Bottom line is you don't take them for their damage output, you take them to keep your overlord and one objective safe for the entire game.They make enemies regret wasting their shots, and they make enemies bleed in CC.

Scytheguard are a different story, they will walk through a group of titans like butter. Not having an assault delivery system is part of their balance. You can still veil them to the back and pop the solar pulse, Then the enemy has to either sacrifice a lot of speedbumps, or the target you dropped beside, either way. that leman russ / land raider you dropped beside is either running or dying, effectively removing from the game for at least one turn.

So they're both specialised units, neither is a jack of all trades, but both master a different one.

The thing about Veiled Scytheguard is that the majority of speedbumps can't actually tarpit them for very long, with about 12-14 scored wounds per round only an invulnerable save can turn aside against T5 or lower. If they're chewing through the back lines they might not ever reach their ideal target, but they're still a massive distraction appearing on turn one and likely to earn their points back.

Only real problem is if they're trapped against conscripts or trying to deal with an all-bike list.

 skoffs wrote:
It matters in that, while I like Lychguard, because of their extreme slowness, I'm struggling to find a role for them in my army.
If I was facing X and my choice was between LG and something faster but potentially less killy, I'd want to compare to see which would really be the best option.

Right now it's looking like... MCs?
Is there anything that might be able to take out MCs more effectively than Lychguard? (eg. Deathmarks? Massed Scarabs? etc.)

I usualy only take them when i know what enemy i face. I know which armies my friends have. So... oh daemons? Sword and board time! Keep those nasty MC's at bay and even kill them off!

Oh, space wolves? That will be CC turn 2/ Lychguard sword and board time! Tarpit/kill those heavy hitters

Oh Nids. Flying player or footslogging player? Footslogging? Sword and board time! Same reasons as above.

Oh Cron wraith spam? Here lordie come with us. We will hold them off so you can annihalate them.

Tau? Flynids? SM? Noooo thank you. Speed becomes the issue. Against these players i do not even take them.

Biggest use for them is just to charge/ provoke charge and lock em up and kill em off. Scoring? Better units for that. Mobility? Waaaaay more units that do it better. Seems there is just 1 use for them IMO.

harkequin wrote:

"Apart from being very survivable, LG are kinda redundant..."

Well yeah, But apart from shooting things , doom scythes are redundant, Apart from supporting things, stalkers are redundant. Lychguard have a function that they do very well, You take them as a wall/anchor, and nothing will move them. You don't need them to charge the enemy anymore than you need your wraiths to camp the home objective.

Lychguard are unmatched in survivability, and quite frankly it would be ridiculously OP if they did anything else half as well.

Bottom line is you don't take them for their damage output, you take them to keep your overlord and one objective safe for the entire game.They make enemies regret wasting their shots, and they make enemies bleed in CC.

Scytheguard are a different story, they will walk through a group of titans like butter. Not having an assault delivery system is part of their balance. You can still veil them to the back and pop the solar pulse, Then the enemy has to either sacrifice a lot of speedbumps, or the target you dropped beside, either way. that leman russ / land raider you dropped beside is either running or dying, effectively removing from the game for at least one turn.

So they're both specialised units, neither is a jack of all trades, but both master a different one.

This 100 times. No need to worry about rushing across the table like some berserker. Camp them out. Bring on the Drop pods and DSing. They survive the alpha strike than...

Okay, let's try some theoryhammer:
Say you're going to play a couple of games, agreeing to keep your list the same for both (assume it's practice for a FLGS tournament or something).
You know you're going to be fighting a Knight (or three) in one game.
You also expect to face Wraithknights in another game.
• How would you outfit your LG?
• What ICs would you attach, if any?
• How would you be planning on moving them?
• What support units would you throw into the mix to help them?
• What would you hope/plan to do turn 1 & 2?

10 Scythe guard
Night scythe

Overlord- scythe, shifter, phylactery, orb, nightmare shroud


Sounds like you want to go big game hunting. Id use this as a missile. Doesn't really matter what else your taking in your army. This fits perfect in the Decurion. Overlord tanks for the unit, rez orb for that first round of shooting or if not, to cheat a round of a big fight.

If your in a CAD I like them with Obyron, especially with say a Dlord veiling something else up whenever. These are more for TAC rolls. Get to choose between porting in, porting up or just marching to the middle for an objective showdown and having the option to port somewhere else when your target is dead/ need a different objective.

Sounds like your just looking for a monster deleting unit so Id go with a night scythe and warscythes. The overlord (who has to go somewhere) is a great force multiplier and also can be a great tank. A Rez orb on 4+ RP is just not fair, especially if your still getting your 3+ first.

380 for scythe guard and a night scythe is pretty cheap in my mind. Beats the hell out of 5hundo for 5 termies in a landraider.

Survivable enough to maintain great killing power for the turn they stand there. Night scythes doing the things that night scythes do.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
oo oo give him an orb and the orb of Eternity.

 skoffs wrote:
Okay, let's try some theoryhammer:
Say you're going to play a couple of games, agreeing to keep your list the same for both (assume it's practice for a FLGS tournament or something).
You know you're going to be fighting a Knight (or three) in one game.
You also expect to face Wraithknights in another game.
• How would you outfit your LG?
• What ICs would you attach, if any?
• How would you be planning on moving them?
• What support units would you throw into the mix to help them?
• What would you hope/plan to do turn 1 & 2?

I'll answer these , they are very good questions.

1. For a take all comers list I'd go Sword and Board x 6

2. Orikan w/ D- Lord w/ Veil of Darkness , Res Orb, Phase Shifter, Warscythe or Obyron (Depends if I take Conclave of the Burning One.

3. D- Lord Veil of Darkness or Obyron ( Depends if I take Conclave of the Burning One)

4. Scarab Farm w/ Canoptek Harvest / Depends if I take Conclave of the Burning One.

5. It varies with each army against 3 Adamantine Lance w/ the Scarab Farm, I'd hide the gak out of the scarabs in cover and put out 15 to 20 Scarabs on turn 2 hopefully. Teleport Near them and dare them to come at me.

With the Conclave of the Burning One, Anchor the gak out of them with the D-Lord, Orikan and Obyron would come at them.

Okay, let's try some theoryhammer:
Say you're going to play a couple of games, agreeing to keep your list the same for both (assume it's practice for a FLGS tournament or something).
You know you're going to be fighting a Knight (or three) in one game.
You also expect to face Wraithknights in another game.
• How would you outfit your LG?
• What ICs would you attach, if any?
• How would you be planning on moving them?
• What support units would you throw into the mix to help them?
• What would you hope/plan to do turn 1 & 2?

Good questions, It still depends on your army.
If you want a unit to hold the home objective, or just stay alive to prevent tabling for reserves - Sword and Board
If you want to go hunting, 10 scytheguard in a night scythe, on turn 2, they either run or get wrecked turn 3.

ICs Sword and Board - Orikan +(whatever 2+armor save suits your points.)
this gives you effective immunity to ap 3+ weapons, and enough lychguard to tank AP1-2, even 5 lychguard arent goin anywhere.
Scytheguard - Cryptek +chronometron and solar staff. Gives the glass cannon a LOT of survivabilitywhen they disembark, For the turn they are vulnerable they are safe.

Dont move the sword and board, plan somewhere you want them to be, they will hold it, they are too slow to do much else.
Scytheguard, Drop via 36" nightscythe in their face, pop solar staff at the start of their turn.

Support, not sure , depends on points left, especially if CAD/decurian. Wraiths will give you needed mobility.

Remember, start playing before turn 1. When placing objectives. try to keep them clustered. this will help the sword and board have more impact, and mitigate the effectiveness of the enemy 12" move.

Best of luck.