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I think they should drop stikkboyz and just allow slugga and shoota boyz grenade options. as for skarboyz they should condence the ardboyz and skarboyz together allowing the skar boyz the option of taking eavy armor.

the bikez should be like 20points but start w/twin shootas & choppa w/upgrade options for big shoota. The rule that inhibits the bikes shooting range shoul also be dropped.

I said this in other post they should allow orkz the gattling option for all viechle weapons, imagine a gattling big shoota buggie squad. Oh ya 3-D3 S5 AP5 shots from each buggie.

 lowering the price of power klaw to 15-20points would be nice and while i'm on wargear big choppa +2 S Choppa and thats it none of this strikes last crap.

Goingback to the troops increaseing the squad sizes of the burnaboyz, tankbustaz, and kammandoz would give them a littlemore staying power since you can no longer screen them behind other squads.

they should add the trukk boyz rulez to the general ork rulez only hurt on role of 6+ when viechle is blown out from under you. and to make up for it allow trukk boyz to ignore entaglment on a roll of 4+. 

I've also felt that giving orks a 6+ feel no pain roll wouldn't hurt.

Power weapons.

I agree that fleet or 12' attack movement would be to much, but more Pikk-Ups would be the right Idea. you either have a small fast unit, or a slow big one with a donkeyload of attacks.
I'm not so sure about the Power Weapons. Choppas are just so orky. maybe you could decrease the armor role even more depending on the strength of the attacks. that would make huge choppas affordable again

Wow, that squig rider looks awesome. It damn well better make it into the list. Oh, and actually get a model too!

I'd like to see stormboyz moved to FA, and drop trukkboyz. Make trukks an option fora generic Ork mob that can have shootaz, slugga and choppaz, stikkbommz, whatever. Narrow down the Elites... a skarboyz mob with options like marines/IG to make them sneakier (kommandos), shootier (flash gitz), choppier (er... skarboyz) and then throw in cool choices like a weirdboy, with a mob of minderz (or even madboyz!). Hell, if the squig riders were FA, then stormboyz could stay as an elites.

Shokk attack gun should be new HS.

I like the idea of kustom vehicles, allowing you to build anything from a wartrakk to a battlewagon, or a killer kan through a dred right up to a stompa. Not sure how it'd work in practice though... 3rd edition cehicle design rules were incredibly clunky and open to abuse.

If there's no clan lists or options in this new codex, there's just no reason to play orks. 

I think one thing that would be a GREAT addition would be to make shootas assault 1 24" range. Also, make it so that any looted weapon becomes assault when taken by orks.

Posted By happypants on 06/21/2006 8:07 AM
I think one thing that would be a GREAT addition would be to make shootas assault 1 24" range. Also, make it so that any looted weapon becomes assault when taken by orks.

Yeah but then you miss out on the dakka of being within 12"

You don't always get to charge, examples would be over difficult terrain, if you had just moved to within 12" or the impossible one.....if your defending something

I completely agree that orks should get Feel No Pain.  Take away the 6+ armour save though.  If so, normal Orks should be Toughness 3(4), Nobs T 4. If not then orks need a drop in points.  For 1 point more a Tyranid player gets Hormagaunts, which are rediculously fast.  Movement such as that is expensive points wise!  With the new rapid fire rules orks get destroyed by bolters/pulse rifles.  The madboys from feral orks feel like the proper amount of models, but the strength 4/5 is too much.   Mutants from The Lost & The Damned are only 6 points, get frag grenades for free, but are WS 3 with a Gets Hot! gun.  A much better buy than shoota boys at 8 points a pop with WS 4 and no frags.

Skarboy Nobs should get WS 5.

The mekboy field cover save should not be negated by template weapons fired more than 6" away from the mekboy.

The WAAGGHH Test should be taken at the beginning of every combat until failed.

Mega-Armour should come with a Medi-Squig (5+).

"Boys" should be a troop choice with many options, like gaunts.

Include the Stompa Gargant!  I saw the concept art.

Trukks should be transports for all mobs that want to be 10 models or less.  This would negate the need for a seperate speed freeks list.  I think the Trukk boys should stay though, the 6+ to wound when the trukk blows up is a great trade for only getting 1 weapon upgrade.

I think Orks are the gamblers army.  There should be some cool weapons that don't work very often, but when they do it's amazing.  I like the idea that Trukk Boys (or orks in general) should ignore entangelement on a fixed die roll (I like 5+).

I like the idea of the shokk attack gun being Strength 3, Heavy 1, Blast, Rending.  I think that is as close to the old rules as possible.  Maybe add rules against vehicles.

yeah, I'd like to see some unpredictability in the new list. When you play Orks, you either want to demolish everything in your opponents army, or blow up all your own models in turn 1.

How about this ability for weirdboyz: As long as there's at least one Ork unit in close combat within a certain range, they can attempt to use another psychic power (+1 per unit in combat). For example, if there were two ork units in combat within range, then the Weirdboy could use 3 powers.

There would be two potential downsides
1. Any failure can cause a 'Eadbang
2. Each time he uses a power that turn, he gets a penalty to further psychic tests. So he might use 'Ere we go!, and then have to deal with a penalty if he tries to use WAAAGH!. This penalty would be cumulative, so trying to use three powers in one turn may cause some...spectacular fireworks.

Here's some ideas for specific powers for Weirdboyz:

'Ere we go!: All friendly Ork Infantry units within 6" may make an additional move during the shooting phase.

Shake it off!: Target Friendly Ork unit within 6" gains the "Feel No Pain" USR

Waaagh!: All friendly Orks within 12" of the Wierdboy get +1A and +1S

one of the problems I see fpr the new 'Dex is that there are so many fantastic units I would love to see, but the old Codex is pretty full already. I guess a good decision would be to cut out some of the elite units: make Stormboyz fast attack, make 'eavy armor an option for Skarboyz, Flash Gits could be a one time only upgrade for shoota boyz.
shootaz should stay the way they are (maybe a better AP) but they got a lot more effective with the new shooting rules.

Orks are a horde army, but altough they have T4 they are still very fragile.

include Squig Riders and Squiggoths

make the custom forcefield an invulnarability save instead of an cover save. why should Vindicare get bonuses on force fields.

From what I can understand, you used to be able to screen units with other troops under 3rd ed.

This makes so much sense as to why the Orks were the way they were. Large Grot mobs screening Ork mobs, other large Ork Mobs (shootas?) screening sluggas, or Sluggas Screening Skars, etc.

Without that, you have much bigger problems now. Add to that entanglement, and Orks best way of getting into CC (Trukks and Battlewagons) just became really crappy.

Orks need ways to get into CC. Fleet on say a Waaagh check, is probably the best method.

I'd also like to see some real work on the Orks.

Mutable Ork Boyz as a troop choice works out just fine IMO. That leaves room in the codex to put some valuable things in the other Force Org slots....like Mega Armored Nobz Squads as Elites. Now THAT is an Elite Choice, not a normal boy with a 4+ Save!

Squiggoths would be nice, but I don't see that happening w/o a giant model which I doubt we'll see. Some nice Orky tanks would be good, say 3 Pie Plates would do the job. Maybe put a Demolisher Cannon on the Stompa and let us take 3 of em?

I think the Warboss should get changed a bit. I read a lot of posts in this Forum that he is the baddest HQ character and that's just wrong. a Warboss is a mighty Warrior capable of beating (Chaos) Space Marine Leaders and Dark Eldar Lords to a pulp if he wants to. but how to do it?
-I think strenght 5 is enough for anyone is not a Demon or a God
-maybe WS 5 so that Space Marine Commanders don't hit him so easily
-toughness 5 so that he won't get instant kills from powerfists
-I don't like the Idea of an energy weapon. it sounds unorky

any other suggestions?

Definately Toughness 5, could always give him a warboss only ability to use powerklaws at Initiative.

Orks need a few things...
1.) A way to get into cc without the whole army dead. Be it by screens or whatever...
2.) A way to... ... ... See #1?

Posted By nobody on 06/22/2006 1:43 PM
How about this ability for weirdboyz: As long as there's at least one Ork unit in close combat within a certain range, they can attempt to use another psychic power (+1 per unit in combat). For example, if there were two ork units in combat within range, then the Weirdboy could use 3 powers.

There would be two potential downsides
1. Any failure can cause a 'Eadbang
2. Each time he uses a power that turn, he gets a penalty to further psychic tests. So he might use 'Ere we go!, and then have to deal with a penalty if he tries to use WAAAGH!. This penalty would be cumulative, so trying to use three powers in one turn may cause some...spectacular fireworks.

Here's some ideas for specific powers for Weirdboyz:

'Ere we go!: All friendly Ork Infantry units within 6" may make an additional move during the shooting phase.

Shake it off!: Target Friendly Ork unit within 6" gains the "Feel No Pain" USR

Waaagh!: All friendly Orks within 12" of the Wierdboy get +1A and +1S

 

This sounds like a great idea for weirdboyz. I'm as keen to see weirdboyz back as I am to see squig riders. However, you're forgetting two of the most orky powers there are:

Power Vomit: 12" range (possibly flame template?), any model in range suffers a S5, AP4 hit. (might need to weaken it down a bit)

Da Stomp!: blast marker, unlimited range but must be in LOS. Models must roll under their initiative to dodge out the way or take a S10 hit with no AP. (Very high strength but hey, we're talking Foot of the Gods here...)

And hey, whatever happened to Pulsa Rokkits? Those things were just plain fun...

What would be nice is if grot mobs didn't take up a FOC slot.

Posted By happypants on 06/27/2006 11:07 AM
What would be nice is if grot mobs didn't take up a FOC slot.

 

Good idea, but maybe saying the first mob, or allowed 1-3 mobs as a single slot. Otherwise the little blighters could get so numerous as to win the game all by themselves.

You have it so you can have as many as you have Slugga or Shoota boyz (or however many troop slots that you want to use).

indeed

What if Grots had without number...? Kinda useless but fluffy. Maybe even certain orks, non shooty/non mounted, like feral ork whom their only method of winning would be the green tide.

K Kans will probably move into the Fast Attack, Id like to see them get Scouts. "The light walker trend"

BigMek should be an elite with cyborks.

PainBoss or whatever its called should be moved into Retinues. Id like to see NOBs and HQs get a we'll be back or invulnerable from this as Orks can take rediculous punishment and are easy to stich..er sew with bootlaces... back together.

War boss should have second killy HQ who can acutally be killy. Both should be good but the lesser boss should have animosity checks within 12" of the big boss.

the Cyborks belong to the Painboss and the Bossmob can have normal Mad Doks. what would be a good idea is to make Doks an option for more units and change some profiles. the Big Mek should have a BS of 3 since he is the one, to build and use the big guns. Painboss with retinue is fine as it is now, but what I really want to see are weirdboyz.
Killakanz should be moved to another section (there are just to many cool HS units in this 'Dex and it will be more if somebody get's a Squiggofant (german name) into it.)

Skarboyz should get veteran skills. "furious charge" anyone?

Warbossed shouldn't be a must.have, at least in small armies. I could imagine a Big Mek could lead a small Ork force very well by himself. but a Warboss would ahve to be in it at, say...1500 points.

and a Warboss should be tougher than a Marine hero. 4 wounds, maybe...

Re: The Warboss.

The Warboss doesn't need a whole lot of work actually, he simply needs the options that just about every other HQ has at their disposal.

The first item would be immunity to instant kill.  Make it a piece of Wargear or a special rule for the boss.

The KoS Warboss on a Bike is actually awesome, and all they did was simply give him access to a warbike!  Gee just like most other codexs HQ's. 

What would you say to the basic wartruck capacity upgraded to carry 15 boys and remove trukkboys from list? Make all orks in a trukk have the Bail Out Rules. Troop choices could then take trukks (if under 15 models) or go for the big mob.

I always thought limitng the trukk to 10 made it useless.

We did two things Ork Codex we're in the process of writing that I think work quite nicely:

1. All Orks have a Feel No Pain/Ignore Injury save. It's only 6+ for the most part, but it just made sense. Orks do not fear death, and they can carry on when wounded as they don't care about being hurt.

2. Suggaz, Shootaz, Burner Boyz and Tank Bustaz all rolled into a single troops choice, where you buy 'Mobs'. Each mob is led by a Boss, and then you can buy 45 Orks per 'Mob', and these can make up a Primary Mob (Sluggaz or Shootaz), and then Secondary Mobz (Burnerz, Tank Bustaz, and Sluggaz if your Primary is Shootaz and vice versa). The Boss acts kind've like the Lieutenant in a Catachan Platoon, in that he's an IC.

BYE

Make all boyz in troops slots 8 points each except shootas which become 7 points. The restrictions in each type of troop choice reflect their now lowered point cost but are not effected in any other way. Choppas reduce an armour save by 1 instead of making all armour saves 4+. All maxed out squads receive a Nob for free. Killa Kans become elites, Storm Boyz become fast attack and cost 12 points but always test for dangerous terrain if they use their jet pack. Kommandos add one to cover saves. Powerclaws given to nobs only cost 15 points. Warboss costs 50 points, maybe even make the warboss a monsterous creature in close combat. Skarboyz cost 10 points. Lootas become elites. I think these changes would make orks much more powerful but not over powered. The way orks play is fun, problem is you dont get enough of them to make it to the other side of the board. I'd even be up for a doctrine system.

HQ

Warboss, Powerclaw, ?Eavy Armour, Slugga, Big Horns, Boss Pole = 103

Fast Attack

10 Trukk Boyz, Burna, Trukk, Red Paint, Nob, Big Horns = 144

10 Trukk Boyz, Burna, Trukk, Red Paint, Nob, Big Horns = 144

Elites

20 ??Ard Boyz, 3 Burnas, Nob, Powerclaw = 299

3 Wartbuggies with TL Rokkits = 120

Heavy

3 Killa Kans = 135

Looted Basilisk, Indirect Fire, Red Paint = 128

Battle Wagon, Red Paint = 123

Troops

30 Shoota Boyz, 3 Rokkits, Nob, Rokkits, Big Horns, Boss Pole = 284

20 Slugga Boyz, 3 Rokkits, Nob, Rokkits, Big Horns = 220


If you were to apply the changes I suggested in my last post to this list above you would save 117 points. Thats enough for a kitted out Dread, 10 Kommandos with upgrades or a whack of grots. The changes are subtle, and probably not enough to make orks competitive again but its something. I wouldn't be surprised if they are given some sort of fleet or movement change. I like the wave of green. Maybe boyz need to be slightly cheaper.

I think that something which saves the Warboss from autokills is probably the most important Item. and I still vote for 4 wounds.
I don't think they will change Choppas since they covered it in the 4th edition rulebook, on the other hand they make exeptions like that all the time

The new codex absolutely does not need bigger or better trukks, these are already good enough hence the power of speed freeks. You can already get 50 orks into trukks easily in 1500 points.

I play speed freeks and footsloggers and I know how brittle they are but for heavens sake use the terrain guys.

Posted By the cabbage on 07/11/2006 8:16 AM
The new codex absolutely does not need bigger or better trukks, these are already good enough hence the power of speed freeks. You can already get 50 orks into trukks easily in 1500 points.

I play speed freeks and footsloggers and I know how brittle they are but for heavens sake use the terrain guys.

What? Orks sneaking through terrain? You must play Blood Axes, right?