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 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
To me, writing him off as simply Malcador the Man isn't giving the character all your due respect.

If anything, what makes him extraordinary is that a mere man managed to rise to such a level of influence in the presence of so many superhumans. Malcador was de-factor Emperor during the time the Big E was working on the webway project, and was more powerful than most of the Primarchs (maybe more powerful than any of them, even Horus).

He actually takes a punch from Lorgar that should have torn him in half. He gets right back up afterward!!

 Fenris Frost wrote:

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Shidank wrote:
To me, writing him off as simply Malcador the Man isn't giving the character all your due respect.

If anything, what makes him extraordinary is that a mere man managed to rise to such a level of influence in the presence of so many superhumans. Malcador was de-factor Emperor during the time the Big E was working on the webway project, and was more powerful than most of the Primarchs (maybe more powerful than any of them, even Horus).

He actually takes a punch from Lorgar that should have torn him in half. He gets right back up afterward!!

as a Psyker he had plenty of potential options to address that.

Ignoring the vast number of powers that aren't published and looking PURELY at the powers in the rule books, Endurance would fit the bill to allow a normal human to do that quite nicely. granting feel no pain and eternal warrior. and thats something that a 75 point level 2 Primarus Psyker could manage according to the board game rules.

The second most powerful human psyker in the Imperium after the Emperor.

The Emperor was about as human as a Space Marine...

He was born human and never had genetic modifications that the fluff mentioned. He is godlevel psyker who can modify his physcial form though.

Still a human.

 PhillyT wrote:
He was born human and never had genetic modifications that the fluff mentioned. He is godlevel psyker who can modify his physcial form though.

Still a human.

Where does it say he was born human? Fluff seems to only say that his origins were unknown.

"From the early years of the Wars of Unification he was ever-present at the Emperor's side. His origins were unknown to all save perhaps the Emperor Himself. He wore the hooded robes of a simple Terran administrator. Blessed with unnaturally long life there were many rumours about the true nature of this enigmatic figure. Some say he was a psyker, the first to have undergone the Soul-Binding ritual. Other rumours say that he was distantly related to the Emperor."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malcador_the_Sigillite#History

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
He was born human and never had genetic modifications that the fluff mentioned. He is godlevel psyker who can modify his physcial form though.

Still a human.

Where does it say he was born human? Fluff seems to only say that his origins were unknown.

"From the early years of the Wars of Unification he was ever-present at the Emperor's side. His origins were unknown to all save perhaps the Emperor Himself. He wore the hooded robes of a simple Terran administrator. Blessed with unnaturally long life there were many rumours about the true nature of this enigmatic figure. Some say he was a psyker, the first to have undergone the Soul-Binding ritual. Other rumours say that he was distantly related to the Emperor."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malcador_the_Sigillite#History

Exactly!

While some of you may enjoy the romance of him being a mere man, the fact that you all regard him as extraordinary means that you can at least entertain the notion of him being more.

Come on now...

It's also odd for a mere human to be the most powerful psyker after the Emperor when you consider his contemporaries included Magnus and Eldrad.

Maybe the Emperor made Malcador

Well the fluff used to be that the Emperor was quite the Joey Tribbiani with the ladies over the millennia and so had many many quasi-immortal descendants - I figured Malcador could be one of these :0

 Great White wrote:
Maybe the Emperor made Malcador

I like this idea, fella. I could see this being real that the Emperor would create a being the opposite of his sons and himself to check and balance everything. It's possible he made Malcador of a normal man or spun him of the raw stuff of stem cells. Either way, it's an intriguing idea.

 Shidank wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
He was born human and never had genetic modifications that the fluff mentioned. He is godlevel psyker who can modify his physcial form though.

Still a human.

Where does it say he was born human? Fluff seems to only say that his origins were unknown.

"From the early years of the Wars of Unification he was ever-present at the Emperor's side. His origins were unknown to all save perhaps the Emperor Himself. He wore the hooded robes of a simple Terran administrator. Blessed with unnaturally long life there were many rumours about the true nature of this enigmatic figure. Some say he was a psyker, the first to have undergone the Soul-Binding ritual. Other rumours say that he was distantly related to the Emperor."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malcador_the_Sigillite#History

Exactly!

While some of you may enjoy the romance of him being a mere man, the fact that you all regard him as extraordinary means that you can at least entertain the notion of him being more.

Come on now...

I don't think anyone's said he can't be more than a man, just people would prefer if he was just a man.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It's also odd for a mere human to be the most powerful psyker after the Emperor when you consider his contemporaries included Magnus and Eldrad.

Mmm, Eldrad is not human, and doesn't count towards the title of "most powerful human psyker" , and Magnus was genetically engineered to be a superpsyker and arguably not human either. Even then, it is still conceivable than him, although given that a few hours on the Golden Throne burned him out while Magnus was supposed to be in there permanently argues against that.

I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Emperor kept Malcador around because he was such a powerful psyker but otherwise fully human. He represented humanity's psychic potential and the next (or several) step(s) up the evolutionary ladder to Humanity's manifest destiny as the lords of both the physical universe and the psychic one.

Kinda like Stargate's Ancients just before they all ascended. Except in 40K it all went horribly wrong (and 40K predates Stargate the TV show :-P) .

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
He was born human and never had genetic modifications that the fluff mentioned. He is godlevel psyker who can modify his physcial form though.

Still a human.

Where does it say he was born human? Fluff seems to only say that his origins were unknown.

"From the early years of the Wars of Unification he was ever-present at the Emperor's side. His origins were unknown to all save perhaps the Emperor Himself. He wore the hooded robes of a simple Terran administrator. Blessed with unnaturally long life there were many rumours about the true nature of this enigmatic figure. Some say he was a psyker, the first to have undergone the Soul-Binding ritual. Other rumours say that he was distantly related to the Emperor."

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Malcador_the_Sigillite#History

Exactly!

While some of you may enjoy the romance of him being a mere man, the fact that you all regard him as extraordinary means that you can at least entertain the notion of him being more.

Come on now...

I don't think anyone's said he can't be more than a man, just people would prefer if he was just a man.

Which is entirely fair, but not at all the point of this thread

Bran Dawri wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It's also odd for a mere human to be the most powerful psyker after the Emperor when you consider his contemporaries included Magnus and Eldrad.

Mmm, Eldrad is not human, and doesn't count towards the title of "most powerful human psyker" , and Magnus was genetically engineered to be a superpsyker and arguably not human either. Even then, it is still conceivable than him, although given that a few hours on the Golden Throne burned him out while Magnus was supposed to be in there permanently argues against that.

I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Emperor kept Malcador around because he was such a powerful psyker but otherwise fully human. He represented humanity's psychic potential and the next (or several) step(s) up the evolutionary ladder to Humanity's manifest destiny as the lords of both the physical universe and the psychic one.

Kinda like Stargate's Ancients just before they all ascended. Except in 40K it all went horribly wrong (and 40K predates Stargate the TV show :-P) .

Yeah, it would make sense if the Emperor wanted humanity to be Old Ones 2.0

I still put money on benevolent warp entity/Eldar God in human body.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
I still put money on benevolent warp entity/Eldar God in human body.

He just seems far too human to be anything like that whenever he's featured. I could maybe stretch to warp entity but I can't see him as an Eldar God.

 Shadowclaimer wrote:
I still put money on benevolent warp entity/Eldar God in human body.

Meta as all hell right there, my friend.

It'd be a way for the influence of the Old Ones to somehow reach humanity if he was an Eldar God. I do agree though, the way he's written he's always written as just a normal human.

I just really want him to be more.

Malcador is simply what a human psyker who masters psyker sorcery gets you if you are able to do it in a way that doest taint you.

If you analyze the story of the emperor as stated by GW (the gestalt soul thing), because that is what it is, a story, and apply conventions usually attributed to myth, legend and story, then a number of guesses as to his nature could be possible and evebn probable.

My personal opinion is that Malcador was either a shaman left over from the ritual who was intentionally spared suicide to guide the emperor, or some other leader present at the time of the emperor's birth. In this capacity he would fill the mentor role of the "Hero's Journey" format. The story is complex in that it is a hero's journey (the unification of mankind and eventually the great crusade) as well as a tragedy ( The hubris of the emperor, a powerful, but ultimately human creature, grows too large and primordial forces smite him and his efforts for his pride). So when the transisiton occurs between hero's journy and classical tragedy (The Emperor's plans begin to fall apart, and the transition from triumphant hero to tragic character occurs), the mentor character is no longer necessary and is usually killed (Think Obi- Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jin, ooguai in Kungfoo Panda, Dumbledore in Harry potter) So i think the real answer to your question is :
Malcador the Sigilite, Hero of the Imperium is a combination of a mentor and plot device to help tell the story of the Emperor's Hero journey and subsequent fall for hubris.

 GKTiberius wrote:
Malcador is simply what a human psyker who masters psyker sorcery gets you if you are able to do it in a way that doest taint you.

If you analyze the story of the emperor as stated by GW (the gestalt soul thing), because that is what it is, a story, and apply conventions usually attributed to myth, legend and story, then a number of guesses as to his nature could be possible and evebn probable.

My personal opinion is that Malcador was either a shaman left over from the ritual who was intentionally spared suicide to guide the emperor, or some other leader present at the time of the emperor's birth. In this capacity he would fill the mentor role of the "Hero's Journey" format. The story is complex in that it is a hero's journey (the unification of mankind and eventually the great crusade) as well as a tragedy ( The hubris of the emperor, a powerful, but ultimately human creature, grows too large and primordial forces smite him and his efforts for his pride). So when the transisiton occurs between hero's journy and classical tragedy (The Emperor's plans begin to fall apart, and the transition from triumphant hero to tragic character occurs), the mentor character is no longer necessary and is usually killed (Think Obi- Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jin, ooguai in Kungfoo Panda, Dumbledore in Harry potter) So i think the real answer to your question is :
Malcador the Sigilite, Hero of the Imperium is a combination of a mentor and plot device to help tell the story of the Emperor's Hero journey and subsequent fall for hubris.

I really enjoyed reading through this and find the idea of a shaman who remained to guide the Emperor in the early days to be not only feasible, but epic in a way that doesn't diminish Malcador today.

Well done

 GKTiberius wrote:
Malcador is simply what a human psyker who masters psyker sorcery gets you if you are able to do it in a way that doest taint you.

If you analyze the story of the emperor as stated by GW (the gestalt soul thing), because that is what it is, a story, and apply conventions usually attributed to myth, legend and story, then a number of guesses as to his nature could be possible and evebn probable.

My personal opinion is that Malcador was either a shaman left over from the ritual who was intentionally spared suicide to guide the emperor, or some other leader present at the time of the emperor's birth. In this capacity he would fill the mentor role of the "Hero's Journey" format. The story is complex in that it is a hero's journey (the unification of mankind and eventually the great crusade) as well as a tragedy ( The hubris of the emperor, a powerful, but ultimately human creature, grows too large and primordial forces smite him and his efforts for his pride). So when the transisiton occurs between hero's journy and classical tragedy (The Emperor's plans begin to fall apart, and the transition from triumphant hero to tragic character occurs), the mentor character is no longer necessary and is usually killed (Think Obi- Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jin, ooguai in Kungfoo Panda, Dumbledore in Harry potter) So i think the real answer to your question is :
Malcador the Sigilite, Hero of the Imperium is a combination of a mentor and plot device to help tell the story of the Emperor's Hero journey and subsequent fall for hubris.

The only problem that I have with that is that Shamans were mortal in every sense of the word, and died of old age, hence the reincarnation when there wasn't very much war.

 dusara217 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
Malcador is simply what a human psyker who masters psyker sorcery gets you if you are able to do it in a way that doest taint you.

If you analyze the story of the emperor as stated by GW (the gestalt soul thing), because that is what it is, a story, and apply conventions usually attributed to myth, legend and story, then a number of guesses as to his nature could be possible and evebn probable.

My personal opinion is that Malcador was either a shaman left over from the ritual who was intentionally spared suicide to guide the emperor, or some other leader present at the time of the emperor's birth. In this capacity he would fill the mentor role of the "Hero's Journey" format. The story is complex in that it is a hero's journey (the unification of mankind and eventually the great crusade) as well as a tragedy ( The hubris of the emperor, a powerful, but ultimately human creature, grows too large and primordial forces smite him and his efforts for his pride). So when the transisiton occurs between hero's journy and classical tragedy (The Emperor's plans begin to fall apart, and the transition from triumphant hero to tragic character occurs), the mentor character is no longer necessary and is usually killed (Think Obi- Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jin, ooguai in Kungfoo Panda, Dumbledore in Harry potter) So i think the real answer to your question is :
Malcador the Sigilite, Hero of the Imperium is a combination of a mentor and plot device to help tell the story of the Emperor's Hero journey and subsequent fall for hubris.

The only problem that I have with that is that Shamans were mortal in every sense of the word, and died of old age, hence the reincarnation when there wasn't very much war.

Valid point. It makes it that much harder to stick to the ever enigmatic mystery of Malcador.

40k loves to blindside us with "BUT WAIT!" so I'm not sure of anything in this damn universe. It's fun to theorize though.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
It's also odd for a mere human to be the most powerful psyker after the Emperor when you consider his contemporaries included Magnus and Eldrad.

Mmm, Eldrad is not human, and doesn't count towards the title of "most powerful human psyker" , and Magnus was genetically engineered to be a superpsyker and arguably not human either. Even then, it is still conceivable than him, although given that a few hours on the Golden Throne burned him out while Magnus was supposed to be in there permanently argues against that.

I also vaguely recall reading somewhere that the Emperor kept Malcador around because he was such a powerful psyker but otherwise fully human. He represented humanity's psychic potential and the next (or several) step(s) up the evolutionary ladder to Humanity's manifest destiny as the lords of both the physical universe and the psychic one.

Kinda like Stargate's Ancients just before they all ascended. Except in 40K it all went horribly wrong (and 40K predates Stargate the TV show :-P) .

Oh right, human psyker. Not sure how I missed that. Well yea, I like the idea of him representing human psychic potential and being the next step up the evolutionary ladder. Fits in with how psykers are appearing more frequently in the human population (or so I've heard). This or the soul-binding thing both work for me. They don't have to be mutually exclusive either. You could have him be perfectly human but still have the Emperor "unlock" his potential through a process like that.

I'll bite, OP.

Malcador was in fact: Tzeentch

 dusara217 wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
Malcador is simply what a human psyker who masters psyker sorcery gets you if you are able to do it in a way that doest taint you.

If you analyze the story of the emperor as stated by GW (the gestalt soul thing), because that is what it is, a story, and apply conventions usually attributed to myth, legend and story, then a number of guesses as to his nature could be possible and evebn probable.

My personal opinion is that Malcador was either a shaman left over from the ritual who was intentionally spared suicide to guide the emperor, or some other leader present at the time of the emperor's birth. In this capacity he would fill the mentor role of the "Hero's Journey" format. The story is complex in that it is a hero's journey (the unification of mankind and eventually the great crusade) as well as a tragedy ( The hubris of the emperor, a powerful, but ultimately human creature, grows too large and primordial forces smite him and his efforts for his pride). So when the transisiton occurs between hero's journy and classical tragedy (The Emperor's plans begin to fall apart, and the transition from triumphant hero to tragic character occurs), the mentor character is no longer necessary and is usually killed (Think Obi- Wan Kenobi, Qui Gon Jin, ooguai in Kungfoo Panda, Dumbledore in Harry potter) So i think the real answer to your question is :
Malcador the Sigilite, Hero of the Imperium is a combination of a mentor and plot device to help tell the story of the Emperor's Hero journey and subsequent fall for hubris.

The only problem that I have with that is that Shamans were mortal in every sense of the word, and died of old age, hence the reincarnation when there wasn't very much war.

Who's to say that the Emperor didn't soul bind malcador and that process didn't make him immortal or nigh so.

The fact that Soul Binding shortens the lives of Psykers, it doesn't prolong them?

Possibly not if you a a perpetual anyway, which malcador surely is.

Or counter theory, Malcador is the real emperor and the big gold guy is a bound daemon pet. :-p

Do we have any real indication that Malcador isn't within a standard human lifetime? I don't know much of his fluff. When did he show up? How long has he been around?

he's been around since at least unification. So thats Really old.