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Flyrants are one of the best models in the game at the moment. The combo of one ground test per phase and only if you take a wound, not having to start in reserve, monstrous creature rules being strictly better than vehicles... Shooty fmc's are in a sweet spot in the rules.

So the bigger % of your list is flyrants, the more cheesy I'd call the list. If your list is less than 25% flyrants, I wouldn't have an issue with them. More than that and I'd ask someone else for a game (unless we agreed to a competitive match beforehand.)

niv-mizzet wrote:
Flyrants are one of the best models in the game at the moment.

There's an awful lot of "best units in the game" right now... so much so that the title means nothing anymore.

[snipped]

Makumba wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

 TheAvengingKnee wrote:

Norka wrote:

To clarify, the one who is crying more about the flyer is the CSM player who is getting a Be'lakor in order to make it fair. The eldar brought a WraithKnight (cause I took Malanthrope), 1 serpent, 1 prism (or falcon I think) and 1 flyer (Cause I took flyrant). The T8 of the WraithKnight is hard to beat, to be honest.

For him there is no help, the CSM players are the biggest bunch of whiners in existence, they just got an IA book that gives them pretty much everything the standard marines get and that still isn't good enough for them.

For the Eldar, the neurothrope messes up wraithknights pretty bad, the rest of their stuff dies pretty easy to flyrants.

Just want to call you on this. WHO has claimed IA:13 isn't good enough? It's just I haven't seen a single CSM player complain about it unless it's turned out that they actually never had it and just got their information reading threads...

More or less every chaos player that plays where FW is not accepted. The fact that their upgrades are now in a FW book give little hope that they may pop up later in a chaos space marine book, which makes the IA:13 bad for them.
Same with IG and their tempestus book. Having it means little to no chance for a formation or clan racoon style codex. Making it bad, no matter how bad or good it actualy is. And yes I know it is very bad.

Ok I'll rephrase: which CSM players which HAVE ACCESS to IA:13 units (the people who theavengingknee is claiming are whiners, see above), have said it isn't good enough?
Those who don't have access to it cannot be counted as whiners who have access to it.