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Most power armor is strength-enhancing to an extent. The SOB PA may not provide the same level of enhancement that the Astartes PA does.

That line does not say the armor grants no strength enhancement, it states only that it lacks the same enhancement.

In D&D terms, the SM PA might be "PA +10" while the SOB is "PA +5".

Right, but either way. They have the same effective strength as unmodified humans in 40k.

Faith is beyond that. Celestians can be as strong as a Space Marine for short amounts of time.

@pretre

Well in regard to the Companions, all of them were credited with miraculous deeds, from Katherine matching an eldar autarch in speed and skills (amongst other things), Alicia surviving hundreds of wounds, Mina killing more than 20 deathcult assassins while unarmed and unarmored or Lucia supernatural mental fortitude.

They also swore an oath of secrecy about what they saw and were told in the Golden Throne chambers and the sigil of the Ebon Chalice represent that specific secret knowledge. Well that's what the Lexicanum pages about these characters and Orders says. Is that enough sources for your taste?

What book has all those details?

The Saint Katherine duel againt an eldar Autarch (which was interrupted by the way) was in Faith and Fire. Has I have mention earlier, the rest is from the Lexicanum pages about them, so I have no clue on where they take their information, but it seems to be from Codexes and White Dwarf material.

While there are the "gestalt psykers" theory or the "warp shenanigans due to all that Emperor faith" theory, a lot of what Sisters do as Acts of Faith could all come down to heroic resolve. Think of an Indiana Jones movie (the good ones). He's getting the crap beat out of him by a bigger, stronger, better armed opponent, and through ingenuity, sheer determination, and a bit of luck, he manages to overpower them and win the day. Sisters keep going after they're mortally wounded, become ferocious in close combat, or suddenly have intense clarity of mind when lining up a shot because they're just THAT fanatical, and determined to win the day.

epronovost wrote:
It's almost certain that the six Companions (Alicia, Katherine, Silvana, Lucia, Arabella and Mina) were gifted incredible powers (and some sort of secret knowledge) when they were led to the Golden Throne and met the Emperor.

Never heard of that before.

epronovost wrote:
Was wrong on that point (though she still is I 5, so unnaturaly quick for a human, but maybee in the bounderies of possible)

I7, actually. She is fast. And WS7 BS7 too. She is basically eldar-like .

 pretre wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
SOB armor doesn't generate extra strength.

I am pretty sure it does. Hence why Sisters can carry heavy flamers and heavy bolters.

Guardsmen carry HF/HB.

Yeah, but guardsmen crew them by groups of two, and put them on the ground to fire them. No badass bullet-spraying that way:

epronovost wrote:
The Saint Katherine duel againt an eldar Autarch (which was interrupted by the way) was in Faith and Fire. Has I have mention earlier, the rest is from the Lexicanum pages about them, so I have no clue on where they take their information, but it seems to be from Codexes and White Dwarf material.

I think lexicanum uses FF material, which is wacky. They expanded sob stuff significantly

 pretre wrote:
Again, citation needed.

The SOB codex says that it is divine inspiration and their faith lets them do it not that they get holy powers.

Previous codexes have attributed it to willpower.

Where's the documentation of your theory?

You can't "will" a bullet to hit harder. You can't "will" them to ignore cover.

The external source is common sense. The 6/7 codex calls them "miracles".

miracle
noun
1.
an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.


Supernatural cause; ie, something external.

Cleric powers.

End of story.

Glad you solved it for us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You'll notice that bullets don't hit harder; they rend (often associated with snipers in 40k). Ignoring cover is just good aim.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All of the faith checks can be done by humans except Celestine's. No divine power needed.

Codex and most GW fluff portray Acts of Faith as things that are extremely unlikely, but not humanly impossible.

Fantasy Flight expanded Acts of Faith to cover Warding and other arcane rituals. Still not that super natural, except for Soul Storm and Martyr's Gift. The Former is an explosion of "Holy Energy" from the Sister's body and the latter lets the Sister transfer injuries to herself from allies.

My belief: Acts of Faith are unlocking the inherent potential of the human body by releasing the normal limiters that it puts upon itself for its own protection (like the old lady lifting the car). Almost all of the Acts are accuracy boosts (Rending, Preferred Enemy, Shred, Ignores Cover, Hatred), which can be put down to enhancing reaction times, physical motor control and perceptiveness, all of which have much higher potentials in humans than we can use most of the time. Of the three remaining, one belongs to a literal risen martyr, while the other two are a strength boost (Old lady. Car.) and the Determinator Effect.

Of course, I categorically and explicitly reject FFG's eye lasers, because their Sororitas fluff bears little to no resemblance to anything else. According to FFG, Sisters have to earn their helmets in battle, use civilian bolters, have power armour that offers reduced protection, and the Martyred Lady presence in the Calixis sector outnumbers the entire rest of the Orders Militant in the galaxy.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
My belief: Acts of Faith are unlocking the inherent potential of the human body by releasing the normal limiters that it puts upon itself for its own protection (like the old lady lifting the car). Almost all of the Acts are accuracy boosts (Rending, Preferred Enemy, Shred, Ignores Cover, Hatred), which can be put down to enhancing reaction times, physical motor control and perceptiveness, all of which have much higher potentials in humans than we can use most of the time. Of the three remaining, one belongs to a literal risen martyr, while the other two are a strength boost (Old lady. Car.) and the Determinator Effect.

This is also how i would see it, but with a slight modification:

Acts of Faith are not "near Death Experience" (but i agree they could be), but instead the firm belief to achieve a goal (which can lead to enhanced finesse - better aim - and strength bonuses)

I would note (cannot remember the source) that i remember Sisters of Battle have Suspensors on their heavy Bolters? So there might be some "hidden technology" in there somewhere too.

Like (personal opinion) the Power Armour being able to interface without Black Carapace a little more than the "backwards knowledge" of 40k might think. Sort of like the whole "Machine Spirit" idea. Science too advanced for some people will always be "Magic"

These two have it covered.

At the great danger of angering certain people:

- From reading "Faith and Fire" i believe the Sisters of Battle have a lot of finesse. They are not the brutish strength of the Space Marines but i bet they could easily win a Can-shooting match against the astartes. They are also much more "refined" than the masses trained for the Astra Militarum.

I'd put sisters closer in relation to death cult Assassins and Eldar in terms of "martial prowess" than Space Marines or even further: I.Guard

But most of that is my opinion based off what i know

Conclusion:
Acts of faith are just them being themselves (which is already pretty good) and pushing just a bit more.
Celestine is another story entirely though

I think the Living Saints are supposed to be a mystery. That's the fun.

From the Horus Heresy novels, there is quite a lot of "Emperor intervention", very much along the lines of the Celestine-type "acts of faith". (1 book mainly)

This could now be ongoing from the "dead sleeping emperor", or imbued in Celestine's armour.

Plus the fact that fluff has already killed Celestine right? So such "Acts" technically have not happened since her death =P

[Edited for Heresy]

I don't believe the Emperor connection was proved in HH. Everyone wanted it to be him, but considering he's very alive and tried to shut down religion...

Acts of faith...hehe, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

KingDeath wrote:


Acts of faith...hehe, suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

Image fail.

... the fact that you're mocking the ideas of Acts of Faith and your image failed to load is... filled with all kinds of theological implications.

The Emperor works in mysterious ways...

 pretre wrote:
I don't believe the Emperor connection was proved in HH. Everyone wanted it to be him, but considering he's very alive and tried to shut down religion...

Yeah, they keep it "in suspense" we could say, but it corroborates quite well. I'll bring up examples but it has been a while since i read the books so you might not even understand the ones i'm referring to... but here goes:



ED: Also, by complete coincidence this one came up as a share on FB:


That is basically EXACTLY what i'd expect from the Adepta Sororitas
And she definitely does not look like an Astartes (or any of the "pseudo-ones" in the audience lol

I find it interesting that most SoB outspoken players and fans consider Acts of Faith has a non-supernatural ability mostly based on their incredible training, willpower and perhaps even technologie. On the other end of the spectrum, those who think those powers are supernatural aren't SoB players and perhaps don't even like the faction.

I would like to hear what do you think your position on Acts of Faith bring in good or bad to the faction fluff.

When I started this thread, I wanted to have the opinion of people on the subject for a new pet project (I still got to finish my Losts and Damned Codex and two papers on the Sassanid Empire). While I never played SoB (and only own the Witch Hunter codex and not the new one), I would like to build my own army of Sisters and always liked their fluff and style. In that spirit, I would make my own Sister Codex (yet another one I know), but before that wanted to see what people think Acts of Faith should be.

I like to think of Sisters of Battle as the Batman of 40k. Batman is a great superhero because he's just a human with extreme dedication (and a butt-ton of money). You can't become Superman no matter how hard you try, but you could become Batman.

The same is true of SoB. SoB are Humanity's Finest, equipped with the best equipment, trained to almost superhuman levels. Someone could be an SOB; they could never be a Space Marine.

Determination and adrenaline won't grant your guns greatly increased punch (to the point where they bring down the heaviest of tanks with HMG fire) or make your Melta beams bend around corners.

Retributors and Dominions, at the very least, should correctly have to spend Warp Charge when activating their AoF.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Determination and adrenaline won't grant your guns greatly increased punch (to the point where they bring down the heaviest of tanks with HMG fire) or make your Melta beams bend around corners.

Retributors and Dominions, at the very least, should correctly have to spend Warp Charge when activating their AoF.

We covered this.

The strength of the weapons isn't increasing, they are becoming more accurate.

Rending can easily be represented by catching the weak spot. (This is why rending is sometimes associated with good snipers.)
Ignore cover isn't bending anything; it is shooting the target instead of the tree they are behind.

Except, you know, Rending means their weapons suddenly rapidly tear apart vehicles their weapons could not possibly damage in any way before, even if they spent every last shot they have.

You don't become more accurate because you get adrenaline.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Except, you know, Rending means their weapons suddenly tear apart vehicles their weapons could not possibly damage in any way before.

You don't become more accurate because you get adrenaline.

It's easy enough to tear apart a tank if you can precisely strike the weak spot or view port or fuel tank. That's what is happening, imo. That's just increased accuracy. Accuracy can be increased with willpower.

How, exactly, does zealotry increase accuracy?

Training and calm does, and a SoB is not superior to other BS4 troops in that. (Except possibly IG veterans)

Give my CSM Acts of Dark Faith, then, and give BT AoF as well!