Who can defeat Holy Terra?

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**ImAGeek**

The Nids are drawn by the Astronomicon, not astropaths. /pedantry

**Crabbit**

Barring acute exterminatus, there is one large complicating factor to consider when invading Terra: neighboring ork Waaaghs. The moment the imperium realizes Terra is under threat it is going to pull a substantial amount of resources from neighboring sectors and warzones. This will inevitably pull in a large swath of orks looking for a good fight. This could potentially swing the balance in favor of the imperium if the orks were exploited/manipulated/lured to attack the invaders.

**Big Blind Bill**

ImAGeek wrote:
The Nids are drawn by the Astronomicon, not astropaths. /pedantry

I knew it was astro-something but the word escaped me. The point still stands

**KaptinBadrukk**

nids.

**ImAGeek**

Big Blind Bill wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
The Nids are drawn by the Astronomicon, not astropaths. /pedantry

I knew it was astro-something but the word escaped me. The point still stands

Yeah I know, sorry! Just being pedantic.

**Furyou Miko**

Necrons got four ships (Shroud-class cruisers to be precise) through the majority of Terra's defences undetected until they tripped up near Titan. Despite that, they then managed to get two of them into orbit around Mars, and while the Mechanicus defences did down one of the ships, the last one actually successfully landed on Mars before mysteriously shutting down.

Yeah, I think the Necrons can do it if they really want.

**Rippy**

Crabbit wrote:
Barring acute exterminatus, there is one large complicating factor to consider when invading Terra: neighboring ork Waaaghs. The moment the imperium realizes Terra is under threat it is going to pull a substantial amount of resources from neighboring sectors and warzones. This will inevitably pull in a large swath of orks looking for a good fight. This could potentially swing the balance in favor of the imperium if the orks were exploited/manipulated/lured to attack the invaders.

I really doubt neighbouring Ork Waaahhs would even realize Terra is being invaded, let alone technologically/strategically competent enough to all organize and attack Terra.

**BrianDavion**

DaPino wrote:
My top 3 would be:
1) Tyranids
2) Necrons
3) Orks

There reason is simple, training. Now, this might seem weird but bear with me.
Space marines are vastly better trained than any Gaunt, Warrior or Boy. Their martial proficiency vastly surpasses any of three said races because they endured years upon years of vigorous training to hone their skills, and that is exactly what puts them at disadvantage against factions like Tyranids, Necrons and Orks.

If we look at history, we can see that armies were, for the most part, equipped with sword & shield. First of all, it was a simple yet efficient combination of weapons. Secondly, and this was even more important, swords and shield required less skill to use than other weapon (like say an axe or a two-hander). You could train a larger number of people to be more skilled with their weapon in a smaller amount of time.
Let's translate that to 40K.

On one side we have space marines. They are recruited from among the best warriors of humanity. This means that they can't just take whomever they want and turn him into a space marine. These humans have to be born, raised and trained even then it might not be enough.

Then they have to bio-engineer him to turn him into a super-human which takes considrable time and after all of this is done they are 'initiates'. They have to undergo more training and will probably serve in a scout squad before being a full-fledged battle-brother.

Let's look at the other races now.
Tyranids: Biological engineered to be ready for battle the minute they leave the birthing pools. Their training is hard-wired into their very being. They don't require a lot to be produced, only bio-mass, which can be replenished.
Necrons: Just like the Tyranids, their training is hard-wired into them. They've got superior weaponry and they're immensely durable.
Orks: What training? They just mass-reproduce and fight.

In the end, an assault on Terra would be a war of attrition, and humanity does not have the capability to produce combat-ready military froces at a speed that can keep up with these races.

I guess Necrons are 'repairing' rather than 'producing' troops but the result would be the same.

ummmm no. not at all. the sword and sheild was hardly the most common weapon. a popular combination, used by several potenant armies yes, but not the most common by far. The most common weapon in the history of warfare was almost certinly the spear.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Furyou Miko wrote:
Necrons got four ships (Shroud-class cruisers to be precise) through the majority of Terra's defences undetected until they tripped up near Titan. Despite that, they then managed to get two of them into orbit around Mars, and while the Mechanicus defences did down one of the ships, the last one actually successfully landed on Mars before mysteriously shutting down.

Yeah, I think the Necrons can do it if they really want.

the undetected bit sounds a little less impressive when you realize that Titan is proably the part where the Solar system's defences truely become thick

**changemod**

United Necrons could kill any other faction they like. In practice though, fragmented into hundreds of squabbling dynasties.

**krodarklorr**

scuzz_bucket wrote:

I feel like the only faction that might be able to do it alone would be Necrons through superior tech and numbers, but only if they all woke up and worked together for that one purpose which seems uncharacteristic. Course, theyd have to eventually in order to take the whole galaxy.

Well, Anrakyr, Imotekh, and the Silent King are currently working on that. So, one day....

**Crabbit**

Rippy wrote:
Crabbit wrote:
Barring acute exterminatus, there is one large complicating factor to consider when invading Terra: neighboring ork Waaaghs. The moment the imperium realizes Terra is under threat it is going to pull a substantial amount of resources from neighboring sectors and warzones. This will inevitably pull in a large swath of orks looking for a good fight. This could potentially swing the balance in favor of the imperium if the orks were exploited/manipulated/lured to attack the invaders.

I really doubt neighbouring Ork Waaahhs would even realize Terra is being invaded, let alone technologically/strategically competent enough to all organize and attack Terra.

I agree that neighbor Waaaghs would not know/care whether Terra was being invaded. But the battle for Terra would be immense and likely splash over into neighboring sectors. Thus, it is plausible that neighboring Waaaghs would be pulled into the conflict either by chance, proximity, or stratigic manipulation. With the proper nudge/lure an ork Waaagh could be a powerful, yet unpredictable, asset.

Orks are the great equalizers of the 40k universe; they can never organize to completely control the galaxy (even though they easily could), but they also prevent any other species from doing the same. I think this is one of the reasons why the Old Ones created them, to maintain balance.

**Rippy**

Crabbit wrote:
Rippy wrote:
Crabbit wrote:
Barring acute exterminatus, there is one large complicating factor to consider when invading Terra: neighboring ork Waaaghs. The moment the imperium realizes Terra is under threat it is going to pull a substantial amount of resources from neighboring sectors and warzones. This will inevitably pull in a large swath of orks looking for a good fight. This could potentially swing the balance in favor of the imperium if the orks were exploited/manipulated/lured to attack the invaders.

I really doubt neighbouring Ork Waaahhs would even realize Terra is being invaded, let alone technologically/strategically competent enough to all organize and attack Terra.

I agree that neighbor Waaaghs would not know/care whether Terra was being invaded. But the battle for Terra would be immense and likely splash over into neighboring sectors. Thus, it is plausible that neighboring Waaaghs would be pulled into the conflict either by chance, proximity, or stratigic manipulation. With the proper nudge/lure an ork Waaagh could be a powerful, yet unpredictable, asset.

Orks are the great equalizers of the 40k universe; they can never organize to completely control the galaxy (even though they easily could), but they also prevent any other species from doing the same. I think this is one of the reasons why the Old Ones created them, to maintain balance.

The Old Ones created them as their army, and all indications show they had control over them.
The battle for Terra has already spilled out to neighboring systrms lol, it is called the 41st millenium!!!

**NauticalKendall**

Why anyone else would want to conquer Terra? Probably mostly just because, bring it to heel under the greater good? Just because?(dark eldar) stamp out the imperiums leadership. The planet itself I useless to most factions other than to deal a blow to the imperium.

**Veteran Sergeant**

Poly Ranger wrote:
A single Custode could do it. Stick the emperor with one of their pike/staff/halberd things, and boom, astronomican down, deamon portals open all over the place (due to the human part of the webway no longer being protected), instant deamon invasion of Terra. Or the common cold... have you seen pictures of him on the golden throne? His immune system must be fething gak!

He's like Mr Burns. He already has every affliction possible, and they hold eachother in check creating a perfect balance.

**hotsauceman1**

Umm, Necrons Tried to take over mars and they couldnt, there was a brief battle before it was over.

**Big Blind Bill**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
Umm, Necrons Tried to take over mars and they couldnt, there was a brief battle before it was over.

The issue is in the quantity.

Terra could sure defend against a lot of necrons, but could it stop all of them if they all awoke at the same time?

**Wyzilla**

Logistically? Impossible for most factions. Sol is absurdly guarded and for anything besides Necrons entering it, complete suicide. We're talking about weapon defenses that fill a great deal of the space in the solar system likely capable of pumping out hundreds of gigatons or terratons of energy per shot. Even something as numerous as Orks or Tyranids would get shredded, and even Eldar holofields would likely do little against the shear volume of firepower (not to mention they couldn't afford the losses).

Necrons really are the only faction potentially capable of taking the Sol System without obscene losses or crippling their entire faction. They already were able to penetrate the defenses of the Sol System up to Mars, and their regeneration should allow them to successfully launch a ground invasion on Terra itself.

Really, the only way to get to Terra is to stealth by like the Necron assault on mars. Anything else is simple suicide given how ludicrously well defended Terra is. But the Dark Eldar certainly can't invade Terra, it would break them as a faction and just cripple their logistics in shear amount of material destroyed.

Plus there's the ever present problem of the Emperor potentially opening up a warp storm right over the Sol System and obliterating any non-chaotic invasion force.

**NauticalKendall**

I can't see Dark Eldar INVADING Terra, but destroying it wouldn't be a hard task, as demonstrated by Vect have the ability to "gift" people black holes. Dark Eldar alone just appear places. Given the ability of mandrakes to materialize out of any shadow they could likely appear in the Throne room itself if they so wished. But a typical assault on Terra would not work for the Dark Eldar, but they could certainly use their style of warfare to do some serious damage. Assuming they put everything they had into the assault. The numbers of the Dark Eldar have never really been stated just that their city is virtually infinite.

Invade? No. Raid? Yes.

**lustigjh**

NauticalKendall wrote:
So, just like the title says, who out of all the current playable factions could defeat the humans guarding Terra? Why? How?

Personally, I believe the Dark Eldar could do it, specifically Vect. If Vect wants something done, he'll get it done. After all, all he really has to do is open a surprise webway portal over the planet and launch a sun at them, maybe even a black hole. Or even gather all the Mandrakes he can and have them emerge out of all the shadows causing as much of a distraction as he can tearing the planet apart with precision strikes against their Navy, and ground defenses. The speed of Dark Eldar and the precision migt just be able to do it if they stopped assassinating each other and all worked together at a single cause.

I don't think Vect has the balls to take Terra. After reading the new DE dex, he seems like a poor leader who can't actually fight his fights himself and has to resort to duping other people into killing his enemies for him. Nobody that has the ability to take Terra is dumb enough to be scared of Captain Weak Sauce, WWP or not.

**ImAGeek**

lustigjh wrote:
NauticalKendall wrote:
So, just like the title says, who out of all the current playable factions could defeat the humans guarding Terra? Why? How?

Personally, I believe the Dark Eldar could do it, specifically Vect. If Vect wants something done, he'll get it done. After all, all he really has to do is open a surprise webway portal over the planet and launch a sun at them, maybe even a black hole. Or even gather all the Mandrakes he can and have them emerge out of all the shadows causing as much of a distraction as he can tearing the planet apart with precision strikes against their Navy, and ground defenses. The speed of Dark Eldar and the precision migt just be able to do it if they stopped assassinating each other and all worked together at a single cause.

I don't think Vect has the balls to take Terra. After reading the new DE dex, he seems like a poor leader who can't actually fight his fights himself and has to resort to duping other people into killing his enemies for him. Nobody that has the ability to take Terra is dumb enough to be scared of Captain Weak Sauce, WWP or not.

For Vect to have got to the position he is in, from starting as a slave, in Commoragh means he has to be a very competent, cunning leader. He would not be where he is now if he couldn't lead. The fact he uses underhand tactics such as tricking other people into killing his enemies is a sign of his cunning, not cowardice. If I could take out my enemies through methods like that, you're damn sure I would. Why would you not? In Commoragh, you have to be strong to survive, and you have to be exceptional to thrive as Vect has.

**Zewrath**

ImAGeek wrote:

For Vect to have got to the position he is in, from starting as a slave, in Commoragh means he has to be a very competent, cunning leader. He would not be where he is now if he couldn't lead. The fact he uses underhand tactics such as tricking other people into killing his enemies is a sign of his cunning, not cowardice. If I could take out my enemies through methods like that, you're damn sure I would. Why would you not? In Commoragh, you have to be strong to survive, and you have to be exceptional to thrive as Vect has.

This. In fact, didn't the last dex mention something about him being so F'ing clever that he's starting to actually get bored and flirts with disasters, just to ease his mundane lifestyle?

**ImAGeek**

Zewrath wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:

For Vect to have got to the position he is in, from starting as a slave, in Commoragh means he has to be a very competent, cunning leader. He would not be where he is now if he couldn't lead. The fact he uses underhand tactics such as tricking other people into killing his enemies is a sign of his cunning, not cowardice. If I could take out my enemies through methods like that, you're damn sure I would. Why would you not? In Commoragh, you have to be strong to survive, and you have to be exceptional to thrive as Vect has.

This. In fact, didn't the last dex mention something about him being so F'ing clever that he's starting to actually get bored and flirts with disasters, just to ease his mundane lifestyle?

Like the DE version of Sherlock haha.

**Furyou Miko**

hotsauceman1 wrote:Umm, Necrons Tried to take over mars and they couldnt, there was a brief battle before it was over.

"open up a forbidden area and retrieve something" is hardly an attempt to "take over".

If they'd been trying to take over, they'd have sent more than four Shrouds. The Shroud is the Necron equivalent of the SSV Normandy.

BrianDavion wrote:

the undetected bit sounds a little less impressive when you realize that Titan is proably the part where the Solar system's defences truely become thick

Nah, Terra has warning and detection systems out past the kuyper belt. It's just that Titan is where their psionic detection systems are focused 'cause of the Grey Knights.

**NauticalKendall**

Vect is one of the most cunning minds in the galaxy, on par with Creed, and Eldrad if not greater. I can't recall if it's the new or old codex but there are a group of dark eldar they respect as if they where gods, can't remember what they're called but it's believed Vect will become one of them.

That said, it's taking the Harlequins and Cegorach himself to lead Malys into war with Vect, he's clearly no meager Dark Eldar Archon.

**lustigjh**

Zewrath wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:

For Vect to have got to the position he is in, from starting as a slave, in Commoragh means he has to be a very competent, cunning leader. He would not be where he is now if he couldn't lead. The fact he uses underhand tactics such as tricking other people into killing his enemies is a sign of his cunning, not cowardice. If I could take out my enemies through methods like that, you're damn sure I would. Why would you not? In Commoragh, you have to be strong to survive, and you have to be exceptional to thrive as Vect has.

This. In fact, didn't the last dex mention something about him being so F'ing clever that he's starting to actually get bored and flirts with disasters, just to ease his mundane lifestyle?

Eh. I prefer my warlords to have actual fighting ability. Trap him in a corner and he's toast.

**Desubot**

Its the celestial orrery

ITS always the celestial orrery

Until that silliness is retconed out /thread closed

**Ratius**

Are we talking about a fully coordinated, fully united, fully integrated attack on Terra?
If so only Crons and Orks currently. No other faction has the numbers or tech to get to it and destroy it (leaving aside whacky black holes and other ridiculous fluff pieces).
A fully unifed Waaagh would stand a good chance in sheer terms of size, numbers and "boots on the ground" and Crons have a level of tech/speed the Imperium struggles to deal with (Orpheus campaign, World Engine etc.).

Nids are an outside bet but not currently enough of them in the Galaxy. If every Hive Fleet from outside the Galaxy came at once, sure.