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 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

Well you wouldn't if you're reading the older paperbacks haha.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

Well you wouldn't if you're reading the older paperbacks haha.

Well... yeah

I have a few in ebook format and a few in paperback format. I prefer to read them in paperback but I usually buy used ones so I guess I won't see any results for some time...

Yeah I prefer the paperbacks too - I travel a fair bit and they're much more portable, and a lot cheaper. So I've gotten pretty good at just ignoring any inconsistencies that pop up haha. I've never really followed the dates and stuff like that, I just tend to gloss over them.

Fulgrim (I think) contains some recollections of Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim doing metalwork together on Terra. Clearly very early on. So I'd say the '17 remarkable brothers' comment doesn't mean he met them all straight away.

h

the ancient wrote:
I don't think they all met, but they had heard of each other.

Nope. All of them met.

Laurie Goulding wrote:All the primarchs met each other at least once, so we're guess that the II and XI Legions disappeared after Alpharius was discovered.

We know that to have been in "the last few decades" before Ullanor. Make of that what you will.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1185

The First Expedition in general included a lot of the conversation that Laurie Goulding had with the community concerning the many corrections that were being made to the early Horus Heresy books for re-release.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

I have the trade paperback versions of the first three novels and Galaxy in Flames especially has a number of changes compared to the mmpb version. All references to the symbol the Emperor's Children wear is now specifically the Palatine Aquila for instance. There are hardback versions of Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Know No Fear, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Legion, Mechanicum that have all had changes made to them, Though considering some of these hardbacks have been out for years at this point I don't think trade paperback versions will ever happen

jareddm wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

I have the trade paperback versions of the first three novels and Galaxy in Flames especially has a number of changes compared to the mmpb version. All references to the symbol the Emperor's Children wear is now specifically the Palatine Aquila for instance. There are hardback versions of Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Know No Fear, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Legion, Mechanicum that have all had changes made to them, Though considering some of these hardbacks have been out for years at this point I don't think trade paperback versions will ever happen

What was the symbol before? It wasn't always the Palatine Aquila? And I'm really curious now. I was planning to buy some the old paperbacks again anyway since my copies are pretty old. It'll be fun to compare them and look for changes. Is anyone aware of other edits?

Wait, you mean they won't update the paperback versions?

 EngulfedObject wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

I have the trade paperback versions of the first three novels and Galaxy in Flames especially has a number of changes compared to the mmpb version. All references to the symbol the Emperor's Children wear is now specifically the Palatine Aquila for instance. There are hardback versions of Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Know No Fear, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Legion, Mechanicum that have all had changes made to them, Though considering some of these hardbacks have been out for years at this point I don't think trade paperback versions will ever happen

What was the symbol before? It wasn't always the Palatine Aquila? And I'm really curious now. I was planning to buy some the old paperbacks again anyway since my copies are pretty old. It'll be fun to compare them and look for changes. Is anyone aware of other edits?

Wait, you mean they won't update the paperback versions?

Those money-grubbing rats haven't made soft-cover codexes in how long and you're expecting them to issue soft-cover novels?

They are making soft cover Codexes, in fairness...

 EngulfedObject wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

I have the trade paperback versions of the first three novels and Galaxy in Flames especially has a number of changes compared to the mmpb version. All references to the symbol the Emperor's Children wear is now specifically the Palatine Aquila for instance. There are hardback versions of Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Know No Fear, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Legion, Mechanicum that have all had changes made to them, Though considering some of these hardbacks have been out for years at this point I don't think trade paperback versions will ever happen

What was the symbol before? It wasn't always the Palatine Aquila? And I'm really curious now. I was planning to buy some the old paperbacks again anyway since my copies are pretty old. It'll be fun to compare them and look for changes. Is anyone aware of other edits?

Wait, you mean they won't update the paperback versions?

Originally it was just the Aquila, implying the Imperial Aquila that is seen on everything 40k related. The Palatine Aquila, the Emperor's Great Crusade-era heraldry, is much more rigid, with higher swept wings, smaller claws and a generally squarer body.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
I've seen the list before but it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, there was a lot of discussion about how that order conflicted with so much previous material.

It also conflicts with Corax lamenting that he never met the 2nd and 11th in Deliverance Lost.


Though it explains a lot that the folks at The Black Library don't even know what they're publishing anymore, lol.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
I've seen the list before but it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, there was a lot of discussion about how that order conflicted with so much previous material.

It also conflicts with Corax lamenting that he never met the 2nd and 11th in Deliverance Lost.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crusade/index.php?showtopic=5280&st=0&#entry22013469

Shroudfilm being Laurie Goulding's old screen name. The intent was never that it was the missing primarchs but instead the two primarchs who hadn't yet been discovered, what with Corax being the 18th.

jareddm wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:

jareddm wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.

I have the trade paperback versions of the first three novels and Galaxy in Flames especially has a number of changes compared to the mmpb version. All references to the symbol the Emperor's Children wear is now specifically the Palatine Aquila for instance. There are hardback versions of Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Know No Fear, Descent of Angels, Fallen Angels, Legion, Mechanicum that have all had changes made to them, Though considering some of these hardbacks have been out for years at this point I don't think trade paperback versions will ever happen

What was the symbol before? It wasn't always the Palatine Aquila? And I'm really curious now. I was planning to buy some the old paperbacks again anyway since my copies are pretty old. It'll be fun to compare them and look for changes. Is anyone aware of other edits?

Wait, you mean they won't update the paperback versions?

Originally it was just the Aquila, implying the Imperial Aquila that is seen on everything 40k related. The Palatine Aquila, the Emperor's Great Crusade-era heraldry, is much more rigid, with higher swept wings, smaller claws and a generally squarer body.

Yeah. The Aquila seen everywhere in 40k was still around in 30k on like veterans and stuff, where as the Paletine Aquila which is the Emperors personal heraldry was exclusive to the emperors children. It looks like:

jareddm wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 EngulfedObject wrote:
I've seen the list before but it doesn't make sense.

Yeah, there was a lot of discussion about how that order conflicted with so much previous material.

It also conflicts with Corax lamenting that he never met the 2nd and 11th in Deliverance Lost.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crusade/index.php?showtopic=5280&st=0&#entry22013469

Shroudfilm being Laurie Goulding's old screen name. The intent was never that it was the missing primarchs but instead the two primarchs who hadn't yet been discovered, what with Corax being the 18th.

Worst. Excuse. Ever.

Ah, I didn't really pay attention to the palatine eagle thing while reading Fulgrim but it makes sense! Thanks fro clearing that up!

I'm still not liking the list though.

Okay so if Alpharius was only found 20 years before the start of the Heresy that implies that Lorgar was also found relatively late, being the 14th Primarch to be found. That's still not a lot of time to squeeze in at least 143 years of campaigning. Unless there were really huge intervals in which no Primarchs were found at all (which is odd because the Emperor could sense their presence).

What were the other Primarchs like Corax doing in that time? Alpharius had 180 years to mop around unless they add in something about how some Primarchs landed really early and some drifted for over a century.

Another problem I have with fluff consistency is the location of some planets. Caliban is located on the other side of the Eye of Terror if approaching from Terra. Yet after campaigning for 100 years, Lorgar was the first to push the Imperium's borders in that direction (when he went on The Pilgrimage to Cadia). Fenris and Medusa are also located very close to the Eye of Terror, which makes the whole thing very odd. How would the Emperor have found them so early if the Imperium never expanded in that direction? Is it because they went around it? Still doesn't make sense if the entire Word Bearer legion was pushing into uncharted territory near the Eye; everything around it would have been explored by then.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Ah, I didn't really pay attention to the palatine eagle thing while reading Fulgrim but it makes sense! Thanks fro clearing that up!

I'm still not liking the list though.

Okay so if Alpharius was only found 20 years before the start of the Heresy that implies that Lorgar was also found relatively late, being the 14th Primarch to be found. That's still not a lot of time to squeeze in at least 143 years of campaigning. Unless there were really huge intervals in which no Primarchs were found at all (which is odd because the Emperor could sense their presence).

What were the other Primarchs like Corax doing in that time? Alpharius had 180 years to mop around unless they add in something about how some Primarchs landed really early and some drifted for over a century.

Another problem I have with fluff consistency is the location of some planets. Caliban is located on the other side of the Eye of Terror if approaching from Terra. Yet after campaigning for 100 years, Lorgar was the first to push the Imperium's borders in that direction (when he went on The Pilgrimage to Cadia). Fenris and Medusa are also located very close to the Eye of Terror, which makes the whole thing very odd. How would the Emperor have found them so early if the Imperium never expanded in that direction? Is it because they went around it? Still doesn't make sense if the entire Word Bearer legion was pushing into uncharted territory near the Eye; everything around it would have been explored by then.

IN terms of where the planets are located, bear in mind that the maps are 2d and space is 3d, so it might be deceptive how near/far some planets are. And are you sure the Emperor could sense them? I thought they just happened upon them (some of them at least).

Corax was doing his whole prison break on Deliverance, and we don't know what Alpharius was doing before he was found.

 ImAGeek wrote:
And are you sure the Emperor could sense them? I thought they just happened upon them (some of them at least).

Well, the Warhammer wiki states this:

"As the new interstellar human empire expanded during the Great Crusade, the Emperor used his powerful gifts of psychic foresight and precognition to track down his wayward sons, scattered across the galaxy, and reunite them with their respective Space Marine Legions."
http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Primarch

I'm not sure which source it's from but I remember the Index Astartes saying something along those lines.

A more concrete example can be found in Descent of Angels, as Israfael tells Zahariel the Expedition Fleet was diverted to Caliban when the Emperor sensed that one of his sons was near. I'll have to find the exact quote but it's in the scene where he tells Zahariel of the Great Crusade and so on.

Other examples are Magnus and the Emperor conversing well before they met. Other Primarchs had visions of the Emperor's imminent arrival (Lorgar, Curze), though I'm not sure if that counts (though it's implied the visions grow stronger as the Emperor draws nearer). Of course there are also examples of him relying more on rumors (Russ). I'm guessing he could sense roughly where they were, though not exactly where, as they were connected psychically.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Corax was doing his whole prison break on Deliverance, and we don't know what Alpharius was doing before he was found.

That's still over 150 years of working on a prison break unless he was drifting through the Warp (which they haven't mentioned officially). The Lion as well, found when he was 10 - that's ~145 odd years on Caliban, when his campaign against the Great Beasts only took 10 (with Luther hardly aging in that time). Surely Alpharius could have achieved more in 180 years than training a tribe in guerrilla tactics?

 ImAGeek wrote:
IN terms of where the planets are located, bear in mind that the maps are 2d and space is 3d, so it might be deceptive how near/far some planets are.

Guess this sort of makes sense.

Oh and the 140 years thing from the Lion still conflicts with Lorgar's 100 year crusading so I guess it's pick one or the other unless the edits have been made.