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Laura Golding (?) had released a list a couple years back that detailed when each Primarch was discovered. Also of note, there's speculation that Alpharius (or Omegon... or both) may have never been lost and may have actually been on Terra with the Emperor the whole time. One of many scenarios presented in HH: Massacre.
Horus
Leman Russ
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Ferrus Manus
Fulgrim
Vulkan
Rogal Dorn
Roboute Guilliman
Magnus the Red
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Perturabo
Mortarion
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Konrad Curze
Angron
Corax
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Alpharius
This is curious for one reason.
In the novel The Primarchs (Anthology) when Primarch Ferrus Manus stumbles upon twenty statues of Primarchs (with their faces covered in masks) he states,that some are familiar to him,while others are less familiar.Only two of them were unfamiliar to him,their masks were split and almost destroyed.
... which begs the question why Ferrus Manus can't recognize either of them. He was found soon after one and one had been found after everyone but Alpharius.
Do we actually know they were found at all? I normally like to believe they weren't found before horus flipped out (and the statues were just place holders) or when they were found they had to be killed off immedatly (or possibly had already died on their planets). If the case is that Emps had to kill them when they were found, it makes it quite interesting just how diminutive they were, I mean, consider the crazed condition Angron was in and he was brought in anyway
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Flame-Rage wrote: Do we actually know they were found at all? I normally like to believe they weren't found before horus flipped out (and the statues were just place holders) or when they were found they had to be killed off immedatly (or possibly had already died on their planets). If the case is that Emps had to kill them when they were found, it makes it quite interesting just how diminutive they were, I mean, consider the crazed condition Angron was in and he was brought in anyway
I think it was stated somewhere that all of them were found, someone check my facts though
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/19 23:42:23
Flame-Rage wrote: Do we actually know they were found at all? I normally like to believe they weren't found before horus flipped out (and the statues were just place holders) or when they were found they had to be killed off immedatly (or possibly had already died on their planets). If the case is that Emps had to kill them when they were found, it makes it quite interesting just how diminutive they were, I mean, consider the crazed condition Angron was in and he was brought in anyway
I think it was stated somewhere that all of them were found, someone check my facts though
Correct. We know for a fact that all of them were found and that all of them met each other at least once.
I don't think they all met, but they had heard of each other.
Interesting.
The first 10 were mostly loyalists. Maybe he did have a plan with the order of collection.
If the Khan and Fulgrim hadn't swapped planets. If the words of a deamon can be believed. Fulgrim giving the planes men some pride, Kharn taming the peacocks.
Magnus wasn't really a traitor.
Wouldn't be the first time the Emp's foresight wasn't quite right.
Might also explain Curze's beef with Jonson, He saw what the Emp saw and expected Jonson to lead the revolt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 02:30:51
Curzes beef with Johnson was just that they were at war wasn't it? I can't imagine they got on pre heresy but there wasn't like a feud there. They were at war during the Thramus Crusade, that's why they fought.
2015/03/20 08:12:45
Subject: Re:What order were the primarchs found in?
That list is difficult to reconcile with some information in the books.
In Corax's recollection of his first meeting with the Emperor, Emps tells him that he has seventeen brothers. Corax asks why his number is nineteen, but Emps doesn't answer. Therefore Two and Eleven were purged before Corax was discovered.
In HH2, it's around 810.M30 when Emps found Ferrus Manus. In False Gods, Horus remembers being the Emperor's only son for about three decades. The Great Crusade began in 798.M30 (Codex: Imperial Knights).
If Ferrus doesn't recognize Two and Eleven in the hall of statues in The Primarchs, then they must have been expunged very early, yet his brothers (nearly all found later, according to Goulding's list) are aware of their existence and subsequent sanction.
After all my research on the topic, I'm inclined to ignore Goulding's list because it creates too many inconsistencies in the established fiction.
No, you've got it the wrong way. Gouldings list is the final word on it. Anything after the list will be correct now, anything before is wrong. He just finalised it quite late so everything before is inconsistent.
2015/03/20 10:19:19
Subject: Re:What order were the primarchs found in?
I've seen the list before but it doesn't make sense.
Here's why:
According to the list, Lorgar was found AFTER the Lion, yet 43 years before the Heresy he'd already spent over 100 years on the Great Crusade according to The First Heretic. That means at least 143 years of campaigning in total.
From The First Heretic:
Spoiler:
"‘We have worshipped at the wrong altar for over a hundred years,’ said Kor Phaeron, his voice
returning.
Lorgar sifted through the bowl of ash, clutching another handful and smearing it across his face.
‘Yes,’ he said, with strength returning to his voice. ‘We have. Erebus?’"
"At last, Lorgar smiled, bleak and unamused. ‘Perhaps he did bring meaning. But he did not bring the
meaning humanity needs. That’s what matters.’
‘Go on,’ Magnus said. ‘Finish the thought.’
‘Since then I have crusaded across his empire for over a century, raising icons and faiths in his
image – and only now he objects? After a hundred years, only now am I told that all I’ve done is
wrong?’"
"‘Lorgar—’
‘What? What? I spent decades on Colchis dreaming of the day god himself would arrive and lead
humanity to the empyrean. I raised a religion in his honour. For over a hundred years, I have spread
that faith in his name, believing he matched every dream, every prophecy, every mythic poem about
the ascension of the human race. Now I am told my life was a lie; that I have ruined countless
civilisations with false faith; that every one of my brothers who laughed at me for seeking a greater
purpose in life was right to laugh at our bloodline’s only fool.’
‘Brother, calm yourself—’"
In Fallen Angels the banished Dark Angels return to Caliban in the 147th year of the Great Crusade (Prologue Caliban - In the 147th year of the Emperor’s Great Crusade). Yet this is only weeks/months after their FIRST campaign.
From Fallen Angels:
Spoiler:
All those honours had been left behind with their parent chapters, still fighting with the primarch and
the Fourth Expeditionary Fleet at Sarosh. Their armour was polished and unadorned; only a few bore
the traces of battle scars mended during the long journey. Since leaving Caliban to join the Emperor’s
Crusade they had participated in just a single campaign; few of them had seen any combat at all
before receiving the order to return home.
Well okay, maybe the single campaign lasted a century right? Nope, Remiel was in his late 50s in Descent of Angels, yet in the 200th year of the Great Crusade, he is 112 years old. This means that he was 62 at the time of the 147th year (200-147 = 53, 115-53 = 62). So at most the banished Dark Angels (Luther, Zahariel, & co) only spent a few years on campaign.
Confirmation of Remiel's age:
Spoiler:
His face sobered as he reached the final item of his report. ‘As a postscript, I regret to inform you
that Master Remiel has taken his leave of the Legion at the age of one hundred and twelve. I am proud
to say that he left on horseback, riding the Errant Road with lance in hand. All of us, especially
Brother Luther, regrets his loss. We shall not see his like again.
The Lion's campaign against the Great Beasts took 10 years and the Emperor arrived shortly after. This means the Emperor found the Lion not long before the 147th year of the campaign, which makes it impossible for Lorgar to have been found after the Lion as he wouldn't have had enough time to campaign for 100 years by the time of The First Heretic (which begins 43 years before the Dropsite Massacre).
Btw, the quotes are all from the novels but my page numbers are messed up because I converted them from epub to pdf. Just search the quotes to find the page numbers.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/03/20 10:33:20
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Again. The list was sorted recently. Anything before it didn't have the list to go on so its all inconsistent. But the list now is official and correct and anything written after it should be correct now. Anything before is wrong, like any legion numbers before the FW books are a lot smaller, but the numbers in the FW books are correct. Laurier Golding only started editing fairly recently so he's only just sorted it all out.
ImAGeek wrote: Again. The list was sorted recently. Anything before it didn't have the list to go on so its all inconsistent. But the list now is official and correct and anything written after it should be correct now. Anything before is wrong, like any legion numbers before the FW books are a lot smaller, but the numbers in the FW books are correct. Laurier Golding only started editing fairly recently so he's only just sorted it all out.
Yes, but what's the point of the list exactly if the HH and FW series directly contradict it?
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
ImAGeek wrote: Again. The list was sorted recently. Anything before it didn't have the list to go on so its all inconsistent. But the list now is official and correct and anything written after it should be correct now. Anything before is wrong, like any legion numbers before the FW books are a lot smaller, but the numbers in the FW books are correct. Laurier Golding only started editing fairly recently so he's only just sorted it all out.
Yes, but what's the point of the list exactly if the HH and FW series directly contradict it?
Because it was done after a lot of it was written. It's more a list for going forwards, so everything from now will be correct. Also, I believe when the older books are brought out in hardback, they're re-edited to make sure everything lines up.
The FW books don't contradict it at all, Laurie and Alan Bligh have said they sit down together and make sure everything lines up when the FW books are written.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 10:38:52
2015/03/20 10:45:24
Subject: Re:What order were the primarchs found in?
It's completely arbitrary is what it is. Why not reconcile it with the HH series? What's the point of a new timeline going forwards? Why not do it when the series started instead of waiting halfway and going "THIS is the new timeline!"
If it was made after The Primarchs then that's still 20 books with now messed up timelines. It's pointless and stupid.
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
It's better to have the future books in line with each other than the whole series comoletely inconsistent, surely. And like I said, they're reediting the older ones. So they'll all line up.
2015/03/20 10:55:53
Subject: Re:What order were the primarchs found in?
Consider this, if the Lion was found early enough for Lorgar to campaign for 100 years then this would mean the banished DA languished on Caliban for over a century and a half. How does Remiel go from being in his late 50s to 115 in that time? He would have long died as he is just an ordinary human.
The only way to fix this is to move the story to a much earlier point in time but this presents problems with the Lion gifting the siege weapons to Perturabo (who is on his way to Istvaan V) thus completely breaking the plot for Fallen Angels.
That said, if they can actually have the Primarchs found really early on, that'd be great as I hate to think of them languishing on their planets or drifting through the Warp for such a long time (cause surely the Lion must have landed on Caliban if the GC had been going on for 140 years otherwise Luther would have been an old man by the time of the Emperor's arrival). But they'd have to pull some magic trick to fix the books without breaking their plots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 11:00:27
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Exactly, there wouldn't have been issues like that had there been the list to start with, don't you see why moving forward its a good idea to have one to make things line up..?
ImAGeek wrote: Exactly, there wouldn't have been issues like that had there been the list to start with, don't you see why moving forward its a good idea to have one to make things line up..?
No, I see why a list makes sense, but not why making a list now makes sense. It completely messes up the storylines for some of the novels (Fallen Angels in the example above). Without the list it's not really broken (well, if you add some Warp time delay gimmicks).
How would you propose they fix it without breaking the plot?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 11:10:33
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
I don't know, but then I'm not an editor. The reason it was only done recently was because Laurier Golding only started editing the HH stuff recently. Apparantly he's the first editor who gives a rats ass about continuity haha. I'm glad he's actually attempting to reign it in, even if it is late, than leave things open for future inconsistency. Ideally yes it should've been there from the start, but better late than never.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 11:11:45
2015/03/20 11:14:43
Subject: Re:What order were the primarchs found in?
That really depends on if he actually manages to fix anything. As far as I'm aware he hasn't addressed any of the inconsistencies yet and all I've seen is "this is the list! It's final!"
Are there any examples of fixes he's done to any of the novels and stuff?
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
Any of the earlier books that have been brought out in hardback have been re-edited, but I don't own any so I don't know what for sure. I just know things like dates and numbers have been readjusted (according to the guy on the After Ullanor podcast, who's very big on the heresy, goes to all the weekenders and stuff, has spoken to Laurie Golding et al...).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/20 11:21:31
2015/03/20 11:39:10
Subject: Re:What order were the primarchs found in?
Okay, fair enough. I haven't seen or noticed any changes that reflect the new list yet so I don't really know. It still seems very arbitrary though. I'll reserve judgement for when I see actual results.
And the Angels of Darkness descended on pinions of fire and light... the great and terrible dark angels.
He was not the golden lord. The Emperor will carry us to the stars, but never beyond them. My dreams will be lies, if a golden lord does not rise.
I look to the stars now, with the old scrolls burning runes across my memory. And I see my own hands as I write these words. Erebus and Kor Phaeron speak the truth.
1350 With DreadMob budz
1100 BloodRavens 
