Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If GW were to remove Slaanesh because of "SexDrugsNRockNRock" they'd have to remove Tyranids because they eat babies and give rather graphic detail on their models with Tervs basically giving birth out of their MASSIVE-Jinas on their models.

Tyranids, Necrons, Eldar, Tau, SM it doesnt matter how you look at it, its a Grim Dark game and everything is centered around each army being utterly, or based off of insane notions.

Tyanids, eat people and cause mass extinction without care for women or children and it gets pretty damn gory if you read some of their books.

Necrons are basically Genocidal Terrorists coming to peoples galaxies and blowing their houses up because, well they can. Their lore is a botched brigade of bullcrap these days anyways so...

SMs are effectively what happens in WW2 if Hitler claimed the west, and the rest of the world for that matter.... Hail the Emporer, and if you dont, eat a bullet because if you are a mutant or different then you get shot.

Eldar are just douche-bags all around that beleive if anyone that isnt Eldar does anything, they are automatically wrong. So basically they're American and they try to police the galaxy from the "Lesser Races" because if they dont, apparently the universe will end (Coming from a Race that birthed a new GOD into existence, it's hilarious)

And then finally Tau.... What in the world were they thinking with Tau... First and foremost, they to me, represent a combination of all the other races immoral injustices combined along with constant Lore debotching and bull crap GW tends to deal with when writing rules or backrounds for races. Lets start with their obvious Cast System, "Join the Tau peacefully and work until you die of old age - Or simply Die, we dont care, you're world and your resources are ours" They have "Sterilized" planets and populations so that they cannot procreate, eventually winning out on attrition and forcing worlds to effectively become slave planets. Tau have also changed their lore significantly from having Good technologies, to aparently having Technologies that surpase other Factions by 10 fold for no reason other than "Yo we came up with a Tau MC that isn't the Gnarloc, and we want it to sell, so make it Bullcrap OP even though it goes against the Tau lore as a whole"

I hate what has happened to 40k in the last few years with all the updates and forcing of 60$ codex's down everyones throat when GW cant get their crap together....

But alas, I doubt they will get rid of Slaanesh because of Drugs sex and Motley Crue

I disagree wholeheartedly. Any attribute, action, proclivity, etc., can be taken to excess. People drink excessively, consume excessively, practice a particular skill what could subjectively be seen as excessive e.g. Lucius and swordsmanship. Just my opinion.

 Psienesis wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Slaanesh is God of Excess, not desire, boobies, sex or anything else, but Excess.

There are plenty of ways that Slaanesh could be portrayed in this context without boobies, but GW aren't creative enough to think of any.

Pleasure, Perversion and Vice. These are the things Slaanesh is the god of. "Excess" falls under the heading of "Vice".

Equally, one could place pleasure and perversion and vice (as certainly in the case of vice and perversion, they are only often an issue if indulged in too much or too far) under "Excess" too. Certainly within the context of worshipful deeds.

Broadly, the four gods are

Khorne - Rage
Nurgle - Entropy
Tzeentch - Change
Slaanesh - Excess.

You can play semantics, home in on specific aspects and elements as much as you like, but those are pretty strong one word summaries of their relative themes.

As I've said before (and a lot frequently, this subject seems to come up in some form or another quite regularly) it is quite neat that if you take the 7 deadly sins, hive off Wrath to Khorne as his, as it should be, you're left with 6, which is the number of Slaanesh. There's a lot that could be done with that concept that isn't "hurr, boobs" but GW are either unwilling, or unable, to expand out of the dead end they've sent representation of Slaanesh down.

@Azreal13

I would have said

Khorne: Rage
Nurgle: Fear (especially fear of death)
Tzeentch: deceit
Slaanesh: Excess

So Slaanseh represent the excess of everything from gorging in cup cakes until you barf and then eat your barf back and add in some more cup cakes, to orgiastic relationship, to training, to acting until your mind and that of the character mesh completly. It's also seeking something forever for exemple you can be a sex crazed maniac who will be forced in abstinence so that you crave it even more or perpetually hungry, etc.

If they removed Slaanesh wouldn't that sort of destroy the whole point of Craftword and Dark Eldar? "Oh yeah that God you created with your hedonism? It went poof. You can leave your craftworlds and the webway go rebuild your empire. Carrying on with hedonism? Yeah you should be good for a few billion years" They would have no need for differences and they'd all just be Eldar again.

 jasper76 wrote:
In any case, one thing that was always wierd to for CSM is that Deathguard give you +1T (why would rotting make you more tough)

Less important bits to hit.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Yeah, I've seen an army using the original slannesh fluff. If I never see a boobed rhino or phallus sword or penis ram and vagina doors on a land raider again, it will be too soon.

What? OMG, really? Some people are all class... I have a Slaaneshi army of my own, and I freely admit to having a few bare boobies in it (2 pairs in 1000 points of models) but it isn't the focus or theme of my army or anything. I'd certainly never model up a vehicle with genetalia, nor would I be so butt-thrustingly stupid as to whip it out (the vehicle I mean) and play it when little kids are around to see it.

They could make Slaanesh a god(dess) of Decadance and obsessiveness to the point of excess, or excess to the point of obsessiveness. It would be more in line with the actual fluff of 40k anyways as Slaanesh was created by the eldar and their decadence.

Eldar decadence didn't seem to have a lot of boob in it the way it was described.

The removal of Slaanesh would require a massive overhaul of the fluff (Eldar, Dark Eldar, Eye of Terror, Emperor's Children, etc.)

However on the discussion of the portrayal of Slaanesh, I'd like to see more of how Daemonworld portrays her worshippers and how various are the methods of worship of Slaanesh.

 kronk wrote:
(there is a 5th named Stu, but we don't talk about him).

I thought the 5th was called Matt Ward, my bad...

 Azreal13 wrote:
There are plenty of ways that Slaanesh could be portrayed in this context without boobies, but GW aren't creative enough to think of any.

Provide examples of your own then.

Self-mutilation gets you no points.

Firstly - not my job.

Secondly, this is the third, maybe fourth, time this discussion has come up in recent weeks and I've already discussed my ideas several times and I'm not massively motivated to do so again.

It's all here on Dakka, if you care enough, you'll find it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meh, changed my mind...

Lust - superficially difficult to do without sex, but actually if you take the concept as simply desire, rather than sexual desire, for something, you could probably develop a concept similar in nature to Necron Deathmarks ie you choose a unit or character that the Lustful unit really want to get their hands on, and so have rules pertaining to them hunting them down and killing them.

Gluttony - big, fat, tough, gross looking minis that are incredibly durable, treads somewhat on Nurgle's toes conceptually, but could perhaps be reflected more by multi wounds rather than FNP or some other similar point of difference.

Greed - could do something with weapons and equipment to represent them accumulating vast amounts of material wealth.

Sloth - visually some censer bearers that spread a cloud of opiates that slow the opposition down - perhaps a moving bubble of difficult terrain?

Wrath - belongs to Khorne, as mentioned.

Envy - they get angry because they want what the opponent has, one could portray them as frenzied fanatics (think Black Friday at opening time)

Pride - a real elite, high skill unit, philosophically on the same page as the Emperor's Children, I'd make the, a real glass hammer, not physically but in he sense that if they ever lost combat they'd essentially just go to pieces (like instability on steroids)

What Slaanesh and Tzeentch need is a revival, not removal! This should start with more interesting daemon models that more umpf! rather than the current bland selection of daemons (including the ones for Nurgle and Khorne) along the lines of the FW Gal Vorbak models or the Keeper of Secrets:


These daemons have to look like they can pose a serious threat to the likes of Space Marines and so on. Bloodletters and the current daemonettes just seem too frail and tame to be a real threat.

And I agree with Wyzilla on a darker theme. They already have boobs on their Slaaneshi models. What they should do is move to a more serious and sinister theme than "sex, drugs, and rock & roll," because that is hardly what Slaanesh is about.

Slaanesh and Tzeentch also need more exposure in comics, video games, and the like. It's almost always "Blood for the Blood God!" Hell, even Azariah Kyras is all about Khorne, when he's a chief librarian. The whole thing's just stupid (actually also Sindri, Eliphas, Nemeroth, and so on... maybe it's just Relic).

Plus of course you can also go the sensory route.

Sound is already established with the Noise Marines, but there's nothing comparable in the daemons range.

Visual wise you could have an infiltrating unit, using a similar mechanism to real world octupuses, who could then dazzle their opponents either offensively or defensively (something better than just giving them blind!)

Scent is a lot harder to represent, but why not have some sort of canine derived unit that helps with DS or similar, like a combination of Nid Lictors and Flesh Hounds

Touch is veering into boobie territory again, but there's stil scope for something non-sexual - how about some sort of daemon engine that get's progressively stronger as it takes damage, as the pain and other senstations drive it into some sort of euphoria?

Taste is a tough one, not come up with much credible for that (edit: ooh! Giant tongue daemons!). but I have essentially, with just one or two preconceived ideas I had already come up with, developed 10 new concepts for Slaanesh which could be developed into new units, while taking a dump.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Pull out all the brakes, chuck the children angle, and go for the full adult angle with zero censoring.

Yeah, no. There's a reason why people who gush over their Kingdom Death models in the middle of the FLGS get shuffled out the door.

I was thinking something more like true horror, slaughter, and torture then crummy anime styled models. Although, all Chaos looks fairly cartoonish right now compared to anything that would actually be disturbing.

GW will update Chaos for modern times, and Slaanesh will be the god of obesity. Excess eating.

 Bookwrack wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Pull out all the brakes, chuck the children angle, and go for the full adult angle with zero censoring.

Yeah, no. There's a reason why people who gush over their Kingdom Death models in the middle of the FLGS get shuffled out the door.

And that reason has nothing to do with the models and everything to do with the person!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greyknight12 wrote:
GW will update Chaos for modern times, and Slaanesh will be the god of obesity. Excess eating.

That absolutely has a place in how Slaanesh could be fleshed out (see what I did there?!) but not exclusively.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

If you need Slaanesh Removal, I recommend strong anti-biotics.

On a more serious note, getting rid of Slaanesh would be THE most serious screw-up in a long history of screw-ups GW could do. First of all, Slaanesh units (at least daemons, I can't speak for CSM) work very well from a rules standpoint and fill a fun niche that's enjoyable to play. Then there are all the lore connections. The Eldar, Dark Eldar, Noise Marines, Emperor's Children, all would have to be completely overhauled if they killed off Slaanesh (the leas stupid way to do, it retconning him/her would be the most stupid way to do it). So everyone who uses those armies would basically lose their armies, and any daemon player who uses Slaaneshi daemons loses them as well, so those people are all gonna be furious. People who are into 40k for the fluff are gonna be ticked as well, cause it changes everything. And for what, to make the game more kid friendly? So all the explicit murder and torture and eating people is okay, but vaguely alluded to sensuality and drug use isn't? I mean, they've already watered Slaanesh down A LOT. It's basically all PG-13 now. And the violence from other races is still a hard R. The game is as kid friendly as it's ever gonna get. If you make it any more kid friendly, it won't be Warhammer 40k anymore. So why pick on Slaanesh?

And I want to say this is just a ridiculous rumor, but with all the awful decisions GW has made, I can't even be sure anymore.

People are absolutely right that Slaanesh is about things other than sex, but that IS the simplest visual theme that sets him/her apart from the other big three. EVERY faction in 40k has a visual theme that helps you identify it at a glance. Nurgle is all fat and rotting. Tzeentch is feathers and robes. Tau are gundams and samurai. Eldar are space elves. Dark Eldar are spikey space elves. Slaanesh is sleek and "sexy" but in a way that's kind of alien and off-putting. It works well, from a modeling perspective, and they've been toned down enough that they're only "offensive" if you live in a Sharia country in the Middle East where all the women wear burqas. It doesn't need to be changed. Making gluttony, greed, or pride based Slaanesh models will just make them look too much like Nurgle/Imperium/Tzeentch/Khorne models. Let them keep their aesthetic.

And no, I wouldn't want to go back to "good ol' days" of boobs and phalluses on Land Raiders (that actually sounds like a conversion). I don't want to be embarrassed to take my army out in public. There's a happy medium.

As if kids are not interested in tits.

Up-thread, someone mentioned a "original Slaanesh army" that didn't have sex-oriented models.

That means it's not an "original Slaanesh army", since all models bearing the Mark of Slaanesh became hermaphrodites with a single breast, and much of the Slaanesh-themed art in RoC:TLatD features, yep, horrifyingly-sexy mutants, hermaphrodites, and, yep, boobs.

Slaanesh him/herself is depicted as a hermaphroditic entity divided straight down the middle, being alternately beautiful and terrible. All of the fluff-text for the Slaaneshi units talks about them prancing and cavorting into combat, filled with unnatural lusts and willing to do anything, anything to feed that craving for pleasure... and often demonstrating such desires to enemy armies to inflict moral issues.

 koooaei wrote:
As if kids are not interested in tits.

Indeed but what would timmys mom say when he brings home a nursemaid. [shudders]

Slaanesh is not sex, drugs and rock n roll. That's just what the lowest common denominator is able to pull from it's themes. The chaos fluff is very deep, if all you can identify is khorne = violence, nurgle = sickness then you're missing some of the best facets of the fluff.

GW Shall not kill Slaanesh.

Because that is the Angry Marines' preferred enemy.

If GW kills slannesh it will probably be the total last nail in the coffin for me. It will just prove that GW has no intention of marketing to the adult/vet market. We might as well put the game on the shelf next to candyand and settlers of katan.

What's wrong with having a maure theme in your grim dark? Slannesh is what makes chaos and to an extent DE interesting. I grew out of skulls a long time ago.

And ill be the first in his thread to say it. Boobies are important. I wouldnt have 3000 points of emperors children if it wasn't for Jess dias daemonetts. The perfect mature gamers model. You don't have to model the more intimate parts of human anatomy to get your point across. Its just too bad some people don't know where to draw the line between mature vs adult.

If GW removes Slaanesh, it'll be OK with me, as I don't play Chaos Demons. But the rest of you? Probably not.

I doubt that they would just remove it, it's to important part of lore. I think some other god would came and beat crap out of Slaneesh like Khorne or Malal, taking over the hir stuff.

If it's the product line issue and lack of ideas for units, well then GW have some serious issues with them selves. In this thread are already couple ideas, hell even I can come with some from top of my head, like:

Noise weapons for terminators and defilers.
Hallucinogenic grenades.
Some Warp based razor wire throwers.
Battle Drugs.
Teams of CSM duelists, ( alternative to zerkers)

I know nothing new but always something.

That article is just speculation and basically a guessing game, there has been no actual indication of such from GW. Yeah, there is a scheme to try and destroy Slaanesh - there are also thousands of other things trying to kill eachother in the game and they aren't getting removed either.

Not even remotely likely Slaanesh is getting removed, which would render her Daemons and the Emperor's Children, and people playing with those in their armies ( including 99,9% of Daemons players ) basically extinct.

Not gonna happen.

Ynead will probably kick hir ass at the end of 40k End times. At the cost of most living Eldars' souls. (S)he will still be around, but will be as rarely relevant in the fluff as she currently is in GWs newer products.

Yeah, I'm entirely in agreement with you, Runic. Why, why why, would GW cut out Slaanesh? They'd have to rewrite all the fluff about the Emperor's Children, noise marines, pleasure cults...Heck, they'd have to rewrite the EYE OF TERROR and the Dark Eldar!!

Come to think about it, the Dark Eldar really are one of the best interpretations of Slaanesh in terms of appearing outside of the lore (even if they're opposed to the Dark Prince), and they look damn cool while doing it. They embody everything Slaanesh is about (since they created him/her/it), so why should GW go about doing anything like getting rid of one of the 4 Chaos gods? Because they can't think of any clever ideas?

GW will do as GW has done, barely producing any models related to Slaanesh or Tzeentch, because frankly they aren't creative enough to come with anything that isn't (a) zombie-themed or (b) heavy metal/chainsaw massacre/literal interpretation of Hell. The other two gods will get a sprinkling of releases and that will be that.

Really, this article seems to have been written for the sole purpose of garnering clicks, but this is the internet, so...