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Aaranis wrote: That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).
EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.
However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?
25 point inquisitor with 30 point memento mortispex and Cawl as your HQ is how I will run 2017. The 25+30 pointer joins cawl and a unit of gravaphrons for skyfire or monster hunter. Or I can put the inquisitor in a ranger squad and turn that plasma into some real tank hunter firepower.
Also, Cawl is the ideal HQ to put into a hoplite squad. He can use their scout to get up the field and he can tank for them. Cawl's weapon is 12" and so are the hoplites. And Cawls' weapon has a lot of synergy with haywire attacks since melta is better against vehicles than troops/MCs.
Its a catch 22, as Cawl's toughness is being wasted in a majority toughness 3 squad, he'll be wounded a lot easier than he should be.
Unfortunate the Secutarii cant be put into a war convocation
That's true. At least just using a regular Techpriest makes the pill easier to swallows as he'll only be 1 Toughness more than the rest of the squad.
I had the proof today once more that a simple Techpriest can tank like a champ with his 2+ and 5++, and FNP. I maintain that giving him a stasis field and placing him with the Raiment of the Technomartyr in a Secutarii unit (preferably Peltasts) would do wonders.
Arlen wrote: A tech-priest is quite a decent choice for 40pts, my only problem with them is that they only have 1W.
A Dominus is a lot better with its multiple wounds and a slightly higher toughness, while being reasonably priced at 105pts.
Inquisitor Coteaz is also a very good option at 100pts and while he has a lower toughness he is also a level 2 psyker.
Another option would be just an Inquisitor with terminator armour, being only 75pts.
Back to Killglade, the Ruststalkers grenades allows them to charge through cover without suffering an initiative penalty.
Sure the overwatch might still hurt, but the formation seems to be a ton of fun in combination with an Imperial Knight formation, as the Sicirians are fast enough to keep up with the Knights and the Knights scary enough to draw most firepower.
Also, I play a ton with my Infiltrators and personally I think they truly justify their costs everytime. But I might just have more luck with them. The Tasergoad loadout especially works like a charm for me, but I guess that this might just depend on your local meta.
Oh yes I was talking about the Dominus all along, I even forgot the Enginseer I once hit five 6's with the Macrostubber on Overwatch with him and killed two Necron Warriors. Even in CC he can really hold his own if not facing dedicated CC units or characters. It's rather sad that the only way to field two of them in Battleforged are running formations. I'd love to have a second one to accompany a Cohort Cybernetica, to go with a 10-man Vanguard squad.
Yes I thought about an Inquisitor, but I'm not seduced fluff-wise about having an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in my army. At least the Ordo Xenos one may be converted to an Ordo Machinum one. The loadout I thought about for my Inquisitor wouls be an Ordo Xeno one, with power armour, conversion beamer, and the Liber Heresius. Make him a lvl 1 Psyker with Prescience. That's 123 points. He'd go in my 5-man two Arquebii squad on a building to give hell to whatever I'm aiming at. Combined with the Scryerskull Perspicatus, I could reroll ones to hit with prescience if I'm not already using the Doctrinas, use Split-fire once in the game to cover more firing ground, and thanks to the Scryerskull Perspicatus I'll reroll any failed penetration hits, and reroll glancing hits to obtain penetrating hits instead. I feel this is a suitable force to deal with anything from 60". If I roll the Orbital Barrage trait that's one more tool of destruction at my disposal.
I am pleased by this idea.
There's the old cheesy combo where you put an Inquisitor with Rad-grenades in a squad of Vanguard and charge with them, causing you to ID Marines on 2+ in CC with your Alpha's Taser Goad. Bit borderline tactic I feel, but honestly if you want to teach manners to a TFG in your LGS this can't go wrong.
Oribital Barrage is a lot of fun, but I personally rather roll on the Strategic warlord trait table. Being able to mess with the enemies reserves or gaining army wide stealth in ruins is quite worth it.
Most of the time I try to invest as little as possible in the Inquisitors personal wargear, because for the points you pay for an Inquisitor with conversion beamer I rather take a Dunecrawler with Neutron laser.
I won't lie, having a geared out Inquisitor like yours is pretty sweet. But multiple cheap Inquisitors for even more warlord traits, are also a ton of fun.
Vanguard with an Inquisitor with Rad grenades are a fun option, but my Vanguard get ever so rarely into close combat these days that it is not that worth it. If only we had an assault transport for them .
Someday we'll have transports, I want to believe. Yes indeed I think I'll drop any CC-focused unit from my lists, even thinking about running Dragoons with the Radium Jezzail :/
I'll already have 3 Dunecrawlers with Neutron Lasers
Nicorex wrote: I was looking there but it did not really answer my questions. But you did help.
Clarification though.
What I want to do is Have a "Holy Requisitioner" formation but Cawl, can al also add a standard Tech priest to that formation before deployment so that they can all deep strike together?
Belisarius Cawl can replace a Techpriest Dominus in ANY formation, so yes you can use him in an Holy Requisitioner formation, it fits him really well too, he can get in range to use his gun thanks to that.
Nicorex wrote: Yes I know that.. What i want to know is if I can take another Tech priest along with Cawl in the "Holy Requisitioner" formation before they deep strike.
No, there's not a single Cult Mechanicus formation (except Fall of Cadia maybe) that allows for more than 2 Techpriests in the same formation.
Coming back to the psyker problem, would a Culexus be better than an Inquisitor ? They look incredible !
What do you mean? Because the rules published by Forgeworld are clearly intended to be used in combination with the Skitarii Codex, which is a 40k army.
Going back to the question, Peltast are not broken. Just tremendously good at what they do, shooting at infantry of any kind.
The best way to run them friendly is just staying with a squad of 10 with no extra's and no IC with a 2+ re-rollable armour save in the unit to tank enemy fire.
They die almost as quickly as normal Skitarii so pretty much all tactics that would kill your Vanguards and Rangers would work on them.
I don't understand what you mean, if you don't give them an IC where will the 2+ save come from ?
Also, I think it may be better (not for your wallet) to have at least 15 so that you don't lose the benefit of reducing incoming shots by -1. As soon as you have 9 guys left it's gone, so that's a nice bonus I think.
I'm curious about these new rules, so there's a new Imperial Armour book coming out and their rules will be in there ? How do we know that ?
I reacted on Verviedi question on how to run the Peltast in a friendly game. Not placing a Dominus with a 2+ re-rollable save in the unit, would be a friendly thing to do.
A cheap way (in terms of cash) to increase your number of Peltast with 5 is to add 5 normal Vanguards to represent the unit champion, 3x special weapons and one with the omnispex.
Play around a bit with the bits and their colour scheme and voila, you got 5 additional Peltast. The only problem is that Peltast do not really need the special weapons.
There is a new Imperial Armour book (Fires of Cyraxus) planned with a heavy Admech focus, so it is safe to assume that the Peltast and Hoplites will be in there.
Oh alright I mixed up things, sorry
What the Peltasts lack is anti-vehicle capabilities, adding Arc Rifles would make them able to deal with anything barring really big MCs. However I see nowhere in their datasheets that they can equip special weapons, only that the Alpha may take the usual Alpha gear, and an omnispex or enhanced data-tether. Which doesn't make sense if we compare with the usual Skitarii units, where it's a regular trooper equipped with the omnispex or data-tether.
Maybe they'll correct those in their new rules then, hope they make the alpha 2W like the others too, so that it may be a more viable option to choose him as your Warlord.
That's true indeed, if they could do everything you'd lost the flavour of having your "specialist squads" and who to protect at all costs etc. I personally intend on running one of my two squads of Vanguards with max Haywire, the other with just a Plasma Caliver to deal with some 2+ save, the Radium can do the rest by the sheer volume of shots. I always love when my opponent sees all the 6's to Wound I rolled, and then I tell him "okay, double that, that's your saves". Wiped a full squad of Wraithguard with one salvo from 9 Vanguards. The same who killed a Wraithlord once in Overwatch.
I'll look for my Peltasts to clear the enemy out of cover, to decimate blobs and to deal with Marines with the AP3 from 30".
Holy cow Grav Kataphrons are perfect for clearing the skies ! On a game against a Necron army today at 1000 pts I unleashed a full salvo of 18 shots at the Night Scythe, 3 hits, one 6, so it loses 1 HP and gets immobilized. He rolled a one and the Night Scythe crashed. WIN !
Well not actually win because I did that after he shot off my Rangers who were contesting an objective all by themselves, but still, had I done that earlier...
Drahken_40k wrote:What is the viability of the cohort cybernetica? Is it decent in a competitive setting?
Never tried it yet but I certainly intend on using it, it costs a load of points but with the right loadout you'll resist to most of what's fired at you, and it ensure your other guys can do what they want without getting shot to death.
Vitali Advenil wrote:It's hit or miss with grav servitors and fliers, in my experience. After 3 rounds of shooting at helldrakes I only managed one six, which only forced him to fly straight off the board. The Icarus array is far better because it lets you keep your grav focused on the things that need to be grav'd to death. Only issue is I can't see myself taking the Icarus array because once the fliers are gone it's largely useless.
Oh yes of course the Icarus Array is better, but in this particular game it served well ! I planned on using one of those in my future list, along with a unit of two Laser Neutron Dunecrawlers, just to be sure I have enough firepower
Verviedi wrote:It's important to note that Peltasts get a nerf in Inferno, with their guns dropped to S2, and needing to pay for Hammershot. If these rules get into Fires Of Cyraxus, they will be official, but right now the experimental rules are the only fully "legal" ones for 40k.
What is Inferno ? I'd like to see if the rules are being updated somewhere.
Hi guys, so I found the PDF in which the future Secutarii of the book Horus Heresy: Inferno are described, with the allegedly future rules for the Secutarii. I joined the PDF here, I hope that works. Let us keep in mind those are the rules for 30k, so we don't know if the 40k Secutarii will have the same rules and options (let's hope they'll be included freely in the form of datasheets). Some of the notable changes from the current FW rules:
Peltasts: - The Alpha now have two Wounds like all the other Alphas, yeah !
- The Flechette Burster has been effectively nerfed to S2, I feel like this is a legitimate change, it reminds me of the Flechette Pistols of the Infiltrators in its rules.
- We must now pay 3 points/model to get the Kinetic Hammershot, if we pay it for one model we must buy it for the whole unit, upping your bare 10 man squad from 120 to 150 points.
- Any model in the squad can switch his Galvanic Caster for a Radium Carbine for free.
- Any model in the squad can buy an Arc Rifle for 30 pts.
- The Alpha can take any of the following as ADDITIONAL weapons options: Radium Pistol 5 pts, Arc Pistol 20 pts, Volkite Serpenta 5 pts.
- The Alpha can switch his Galvanic Caster for an Arc Maul or a Power weapon.
- The Alpha can buy any of the following: Refractor Field, Omnispex, Shattersphere Grenades (which are Radium grenades with S4 AP5, Pinning, Blast and 8") or an Augury Scanner.
Hoplites: - The Alpha may have the same options as the Peltast Alpha, except he can't take the refractor field, as he already have a 5++.
No other changes for them.
What is really interesting is this new character, the Secutarii Axiarch. If he's available in the future for the 40k Skitarii we'll have a way better alternative for the Warlord, we'd have a Warlord with WS4, BS5, S4, T4, 3 Wounds (!), I4, 3 Attacks, Ld9 and a 3+ save. He's also outfitted with the classic Kyropatris Field Generator, and his Titanshard armour gives him IWND, really nice as long as you're not shot with S8 (except if you roll the Eternal Warrior trait for him) as it assures you have a serious Warlord for your Skitarii Maniple if you want to run them solo. He comes equipped with a Refractor Field, an Arc Maul and a Radium Pistol. he may exchange the pistol alone for and Arc Pistol, a Volkite Serpenta, a Photon Gauntlet or an Archeotech Pistol. The Arc maul may be switched for a Power weapon, a Corposant Stave or a Power Fist. Or he exchanges both for the Hoplite weapon and shield. For 5 pts he may Master-Craft a single of his weapons. May buy any of the options of the Alphas I described above.
If we look at his special rules he gets Stubborn, standard Skitarii FNP of 6+ and Precision Shots. However the most interesting is the rule Binaric Stratagems, if there's at least one Axiarch in the same Detachment as the Secutarii, all of them gains one of the following bonuses, decided before the battle and lasting all the game:
- Pain Suppression Override: boosts FNP to 5+ - Helps them gain durability, very welcome on the Secutarii.
- Explorator Synaesthesis: gives Move Through Cover - Can be nice but I wouldn't take this one personally.
- Deconstructive Confluence: results on the Vehicle Damage table inflicted by models with this ability are at +1 - Now you can make vehicles explode with your Arc weaponry !
- Extinction Interlock: the unit gains Preferred Enemy (Infantry) - Sweet Omnissiah this could be really dangerous. Just imagine the deadly shooting phase you could make with that.
Now we have to remember most of these rules are made for 30k, especially some of the weapons options that we don't see here in 40k. But I do hope they'll still keep the Secutarii available in 40k, and most of all gives us access to the Axiarch. I would finally be able to field a dedicated Skitarii Maniple if they change it to include an optional HQ.
Verviedi wrote: Well, folks, time for updated unit summaries. I did some work by myself, but I think my experience is lacking. I'd really appreciate some help from more experienced users.
I can do my own summary if you'd like, even given my limited experience I learn a lot from my defeats
Skitarii Rangers:
Spoiler:
I agree with what you said, they're best in 5 man units kept in cover. A ratio of 2 Vanguards for 1 Rangers is widely considered as the best ratio, with the Vanguards going in the open field more often. I've found using a squad of 5 with 2 Arc Rifles is effective, allowing you to shoot at vehicles from an elevated position and in the safety of a cover (a 4+ armour won't save you against returning fire from the tanks I've found out). Also, I've been pretty satisfied of a 5 man squad with 2 Arquebii and an Omnispex, when an only when used in a Dominus Maniple, with the Scryerskull Perspicatus on the Techpriest. You'll be almost assured of stripping two HP to your target, while opening up the possibility of a destroyed weapon or an immobilized result. Plus, you can still use the bonus to finish the vehicle off with another anti-armour unit. Without the formation/relic their results are almost always disappointing to me. As for the Plasma Caliver, I've never thought about it but a single one in a squad devoted to staying in a building might have a nice use for that, You'll always have targets within 24". 30 pts is still a load of points.
Skitarii Vanguards:
Spoiler:
I love them ! A full unit of ten, bare bones, pump out 30 shots that could wound twice on 6's ANY Toughness value. They've proven vital to my games, but their flimsiness is still real. I've started adding a Techpriest to tank all the dakka, and it has proven really nice. They'll always die in the end though, such is their tragic fate. The -1 Toughness debuff in CC has never ever been useful to me personally because I never get them in CC but this is free so why not, it can open up to some Instant Death schemes when cooperating with other strong units from your army. Like, you down the Toughness of the Dreadknight to 5, then you can instakill him in CC with your S10 Kastelans. Situational perhaps, but the possibility exists nonetheless. As for the special weapons, don't even think about the Arquebii, ou want these guys up close. The Arc Rifles I have never tried yet but they can give you a solution against vehicles when you need it. The Plasma Caliver is still a risky weapon to take because you'llbe sad when your 30 pts weapons will get shot, but hey it's still nice to have when you're facing TEQs.
Sicarian Infiltrators:
Spoiler:
I may not have played enough games with them, but I don't think I'm using them really optimally with my limited list choices. I run them in 5 man squads, Tasers and Flechette pistols, with the Omniscient Mask to give them Zealot. I think they're tricky to use well, I'm trying to infiltrate them in a manner to allow me to approach the shooty backfield units, but I rarely dare make them charge in the buildings because of the lack of offensive grenades, and my constant fear of overwatch fire. I truely believe they are still devastating though, especially when you combine Zealot with the CC Doctrinas to drown in the weight of attacks. The Flechette Pistols can be devastating with some nice rolls too, they must be really deadly against blobs of T3 grunts. I've also used them hidden near a problematic unit to diminish their performances, but wasting 185 pts just for that may be a bit much. Overall, I think they're really nice but you have to be wary of their manoeuvring, and the fact that they're T3 still exposes them to ID most of the time.
Sicarian Ruststalkers I will not comment, I have never ever played them.
Ironstrider Ballistarii, never played them either, but I can't see their uses unless taken as part of the Ironstrider Cavaliers formation. They don't have a 5+ cover save, have a lower WS than the Dragoons, and really you have better solutions than using Autocannons for 55 pts in your army. I don't intend on playing them honestly.
Sydonian Dragoon:
Spoiler:
I only have one of them but he really does its job most of the time. 45 pts is cheap enough that you don't really cry when he dies, and just enough that you'll be happy when he destroys a vehicle from behind or kills 6 guys in a single charge. He's resilient to light arms fire but will crumble against a dedicated anti-vehicle unit in one turn. Use Scout and his big movement to get him to cover to boost his 5+ and outflank your targets with them. Never tried the Radium Jezzail but I can imagine quite easily that in a unit of 2-3 equipped with them they might be dangerous enough to support your army. I'll try that someday !
Onager Dunecrawler:
Spoiler:
Only ever fielded one at a time, but he's worthy of respect. I always played him with the Neutron Laser and the ability to make explode vehicles in one shot is quite savoury to have. That is way more dangerous when taken in the same Dominus Maniple as the Arquebii team I described earlier. If you're running him solo like I do for now I'd consider buying him the Cognis Manipulator, it's 25 pts but gives you IWND, helping you heal up a little as your 6++ won't save you. Bonus points if you hide him in a ruin to give him a 4+ cover save ! I'll try a squad of 3 Neutron Lasers once I have them, I can see it being the bane of... Well, everything. If you intend on having a unit of Vanguards or something to bodyguard them, consider taking the 10 points Mindscanner Probe, it denies the bonus charge attack on any of your units getting charged within a 6" radius.
Techpriest Dominus:
Spoiler:
The Omnissiah's chosen. This guy will take a lot of punishment for whichever unit you place him into. His standard weapons are really nice, but I started using an Eradication Ray when out with the Vanguard squad and I have to say I love it so far. With the relics he has access to you can make him work for a few scenarios, the classic one is to give him the IWND staff when in a unit of Kataphrons (or better, in a Cohort Cybernetica). What works if you place him in a Vanguard unit is to place him first line, and give him both the stasis field and the relic to give Cognis to the unit, that way you can tank the AP2 with the stasis field while going to ground, and the turn you get back up you fire at BS2 instead of 1. Allows you to fire more easily on flyers too ! Definitely a must have in every AdMech army. It's tricky to have multiple Dominii in your formation though.
Kataphron Destroyers:
Spoiler:
I really like those guys, they're most of the time the first thing my opponent focuses when he can. The volume of fire they can pump out is devastating, I successfully crashed a flyer with the 3 man squad on lucky rolls. Keep them in cover though, 4+ armour is not really that great and most of all these guys don't have FNP. I'd advise on taking the Cognis Flamers only when you intend on advancing on the board with them, best with a Techpriest. Otherwise the Phosphor Blaster is not the best weapon ever but if you can reduce the cover of your target that's that. The Plasma Cannon I never tried, but the reduced range seems underwhelming, and the Gets Hot still lurks.
Never tried the Breachers by myself, but they seem special to use. They're better against vehicles but if you choose them instead of Grav-Destroyers you'll lose your AP2 weaponry and volume of fire. The Torsion Cannon also don't seem that good, or only in limited numbers for a specific task. It's only one shot at BS3 after all.
I don't know the Electropriests that much neither, but I do know if you want to run them it's in very specific builds that require LOTS of them.
Kastelan Maniples:
Spoiler:
These are my favourite even though I manage to have them killed on every game, being able to shoot up to 12 S6 AP3 36" Luminagen for just two robots is wonderful, this unit will be the bane of MEQs. They are pretty tough, and the Datasmith can tank the AP3 thanks to his Artificer Armour. They come stock with two Power Fists (that hits at their Initiative, due to them being MCs) and Torrent Flamers. The flamers aren't particularly devastating but it can very well clean up the hordes facing you before finishing them off. I play them with the twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters + the carapace-mounted one. Due to them being both Luminagen and fired from an MC, you can fire the carapace-mounted ones before to hope to reduce the cover by 1 BEFORE firing your twin-linked ones. The Datasmith is really good as well, with a better save than his robots, 2+ and 5++ in CC too, plus the FNP. His pistol his powerful, and can do nice damage on vehicles should you get in range with them. As of their protocols, I only run them in a single Maniple for now, so I never tried switching off the FNP to give them this extra durability. Be advised they are not invincible, they'll fall to lots of firepower, poisoned weaponry, psykers, or generally being charged with lots of AP3 weapons.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 09:16:33
Edited my post to include the Kastelan Robots as well.
Vitali Advenil wrote: I actually disagree about the arc rifles on the vanguard. Arc rifles are 24'' rapid fire, meaning you're having to get closer. Rangers are better for hanging out back, as you said, because of their longer range. Vanguard are generally going to be closer, and have an easier time using them.
Also, if I take a plasma caviler in the vanguard squad, I'll always take an omnispex. Shoving that cover save from a 4+ to a 5+ against my plasma is always nice, especially if I can get it to a 6+ with some lumagen support.
I agree with you, I think Arc Rifles are great with both units. You'll always be closer with Vanguards but I just think they're safer in the hidden Ranger squads, because my Vanguards die a lot. Also, having even more Radium shots is seducing, and forces you to shoot at non-vehicles. Having 7 or 8 guys not firing at something because the Arc Rifles fired at a vehicle is still 21 or 24 shots "lost" in my opinion. But both options are viable I believe.
Even against infantry the arc rifle is pretty much a guaranteed 5 wounds or so on MEQ, and does provide to the weight of fire. It also makes them able to take on any threat, even if you "Waste" 21 rad shots. often times I find the trade off worth it, but it is highly situational.
Yeah you're right, it's still AP5 like the Radium Carbines. Beyond 12" they're pretty equal to the Carbines I feel, and better under 13" due to the rapid fire.
I'm just reassuring myself for not having mounted any Arc Rifles in my Vanguards yet
Also, I'm thinking about building a 10 man squad with the Alpha equipped with Arc Pistol + Arc Maul, and two or three Arc Rifles. Is that a nice idea ? I'd run them along a 5 man Arquebii squad, a 5 man bare bones Ranger squad, and a 10 man Vanguard squad with one Plasma Caliver. They'd assure me the anti-armour duty pretty well but I'm not sure about the Maul, I don't think I'll charge a vehicle that often. Still mounted him like that because rule of cool Would be a good idea ?
You'd be surprised, I run this double Arquebus squad with an Omnispex and the Scryerskull Perspicatus. I usually deploy them in an elevated position in a corner of my side of the table, so that I can have the sides of the vehicles. Well with the ability to reroll failed glances and reroll glances to have penetrating hits, I immobilised or finished off a lot of vehicles in a few games. When I play 1000 pts I run them in the Dominus Maniple along a Neutron Laser Dunecrawler, so that I can reroll failed hits should I have any.
Of course it requires a fair deal of synergy and the use of a 20 pts relic, but I always allowed me to destroy an enemy vehicle from my turn 1 by just using the squad and the Dunecrawler. I still have my double Arc Rifles squad somewhere in the field to finish it off if I need.
Drahken_40k wrote: I've played a few games with just skitarii recently and even then I really struggle to find a use for arc rifles beyond one squad. They just don't compare in my opinion to the plasma calivers so I've been only running one squad of rangers in the backfield with them for drop pods/leviathans which are common where I play
Thing is, one plasma Caliver is worth two Arc Rifles in cost, and it has a reduced range. I'd say its function is different, the Plasma is meant to deal with 2+ enemies, and I think they're best equipped with Vanguard as they are the same range. Arc Rifles are powerful, but are really meant to be dedicated to anti-armour. I think if you want to include one, make it two in a 5 man squad. At 12" you can fire 4 Haywire shots and potentially destroy any vehicle pretty easily.
As for the placement, well it's up to what army you're facing. I try to place them in ruins with Scout so they can fire at least one shot each at their first turn, but if you're expecting drop pods yeah they're your best bet to destroy them in once turn. Or the Dreadnought that comes out of it.
Though the tradeoff is that its still wounding him on a majority toughness 3, which is a waste of his T6
I'll put him with Kataphrons
But they can be taken in a Skitarii Maniple ! Any Techpriest Dominus will do the trick for the 2++ rerollable, it's just that Cawl gives more bonuses.
As previously said, placing him in a Cohort Cybernetica looks absolutely murderous and a nightmare to deal with. That will cost you a bunch of points though.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the same topic, what do you think of Kataphron Breachers as anti-armour units ? The 2 Haywire shots by head at 36" looks appealing, but then I remember it's at BS3 and can only get rerolls for one or two turns with the Canticles, whereas a Skitarii unit will have always minimum BS4. As for the Torsion Cannon, it looked not worth it at first due to range, but I can see it becoming deadly combined with a Scryerskull Perspicatus to reroll failed glances to get pens. 1D3 HP per penetrating hit is interesting, and let's not forget it's AP1 so it may explode your target with good luck. In a unit of three, I'd use 2-3 Heavy Arc Rifles and 0-1 Torsion Cannon, depending on their placement.
That would allow me to maybe drop the Arquebii squad and give less special weaponry to my Skitarii, while still leaving an Arc Rifle or two in a squad. Your thoughts on this ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/17 22:53:38
Congrats little Dunecrawler ! Mine smashed an Harlequin character once (don't remember which one), I love to picture the graceful Eldar getting crushed by a radioactive brick with legs.
buddha wrote: Where are you mechanicus players putting Cawl in your lists? His strength is that he is among the best tanks in the game. I've just been using him as a bullet shield for Kataphrons and advancing upfield but I'm curious if players have a better unit choice?
Honestly I have no plans on getting or using Cawl. In general I don't like using named characters, nor do I like using characters as hilariously strong as these. Though, if I had to make a tactical analysis for him...
Using him solely as a bullet sponge for servitors seems like a vast waste of points. For his cost alone you could just field another unit of servitors, and get twice the firepower. Sure, he has decent shooting, but he doesn't have 18 grav shots at 48 inch range. Plus, servitors have decent bulk. A T5 W2 model is pretty strong, and if you have Cawl on the board, they probably won't be focusing on your servitors. He wants to get close, so I'd put him with another unit that wants to get close. Surround him with vanguard, I say. He can tank what he needs to and LOS the rest. This makes sure the vanguard unit gets where it needs to be as well as Cawl. Plus, if you charge anything, you're subtracting one toughness while Cawl is fighting them.
In any way, I don't intend on buying him neither (don't really love the model) but strolling the battlefield by himself could be good too. He'll catch a lot of fire and he doesn't, he'll just get closer to what he wants.
Holy Molly I have a newfound respect for my 5 Infiltrators now. I faced an Iron Hands list with a triple Vindicator squadron in it, and as I wondered where in Hell I could go with my Infiltrators so they could be useful (there was only like 8-9 non-vehicle models on the field on his side) I found myself close to the Vindicators. So I charged them, rolled... and destroyed two of them. With 5 Infiltrators. With Taser Goads.
As a makeshift anti-armour they look nice indeed with these S6 hits. On the charge they have 21 attacks that hit on 3+, with 6's adding two more hits each. As it's resolved against rear armour most of the time it will be 10 and you only have to roll a few 4+ to destroy one.
The more I play with the same list, the more I get good with what I have. Even managed a victory against a CC Eldar list the other day !
Cawl is an absolute tank, He can tank full rounds of fire from whole army.
There are few good choices for Cawl
1) Protect Destroyers. He will let those destroyers shoot all day long. -1 Toughness is not too big of a deal
2) Cohort Cybernetica. This unit will not die. Also Robots with Memento-Mortispex is great. And he will be tanking at T7
3) Keep him by himself. I had a few games where there was few big objectives, so he can just camp them and draw a lot of fire. Your opponent won't be able to move him from an objective.
I also like bringing Knight or onagers to walk next to Cawl for buffs.
However, my play group start to consider Cawl to be unfun, so I won't be able to bring him as much as I like in the future :(
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Aaranis wrote: Holy Molly I have a newfound respect for my 5 Infiltrators now. I faced an Iron Hands list with a triple Vindicator squadron in it, and as I wondered where in Hell I could go with my Infiltrators so they could be useful (there was only like 8-9 non-vehicle models on the field on his side) I found myself close to the Vindicators. So I charged them, rolled... and destroyed two of them. With 5 Infiltrators. With Taser Goads.
As a makeshift anti-armour they look nice indeed with these S6 hits. On the charge they have 21 attacks that hit on 3+, with 6's adding two more hits each. As it's resolved against rear armour most of the time it will be 10 and you only have to roll a few 4+ to destroy one.
The more I play with the same list, the more I get good with what I have. Even managed a victory against a CC Eldar list the other day !
Do you infiltrate or outflank your Infiltrators mostly? I never had success with them, although it might be because my main opponent is Tau so too many instant kill for them to do anything (Same thing happens with dragoons)
Careful with Cawl at T5 in the Destroyers unit, he's not Eternal Warrior and thus may be victim of Instant Death if a S10 AP1 Blast comes right in his face...
I always infiltrate them so as to make something menacing for the enemy to consider, and they can be closer to objectives or just out of sight more easily. I don't trust Outflank, you still can't charge at the turn you arrive and worse is that it's on Turn 2, and they may as well never arrive and not at the right side. Another option may be to deploy them normally with Scout and if you don't get the first turn, you may have something to charge at yours. Never played against a Tau player yet, but I can wait for as long as necessary, I'm in no rush
That is not how instant death works. Rolls to wound are on average toughness (5). Once a wound allocated and unsaved, then the instant death rule is queried against the toughness of the model on a model by model basis (6). If a wound is allocated to a kataphron and it is unsaved, then it is queried against the toughness (5) of the kataphron.
Really ? I've been doing that wrongly most of the time then, thanks for the clarification. But you still roll your To Wound rolls on the biggest average Toughness in the unit ? It's for the allocation of Wounds to save that you use the Toughness value of the model ?
IHateNids wrote: You roll to wound vs the unit's majority toughness.
Once you allocate a successful wound to a model, then you assess S vs T for purposes of ID, (denying) FNP/RP, and any other rules that interfere with things like AP values and cover and such, and roll any possible save accordingly
Okay, that's what I had in mind as well. I'll remember it for my next games !
On another subject, I'll be testing a full 10 squad of Vigilators Sisters of Silence, the ones with the AP2 Greatswords this thursday in a 1500 pts game. I'm placing my Techpriest Dominus with them, equipped with Anzion's Pseudogenetor, the Eradication Ray and a Stasis Field. That should make a decently resilient CC unit to deal with psykers and other CC units coming too close. I won't be facing any psykers sadly but I'll see how they perform nonetheless. Wasn't satisfied with the Culexus as he was too slow and pricey for his somewhat average resilience, so in the two games I played in which I tested him he didn't do much at all. Hoping the Sisters of Silence will be nice !
Anyone tried Sisters of Silence in their AdMech lists ? What is your way of dealing with Psykers ?
buddha wrote:I'm starting to like the idea of cawl tanking for a unit of sisters of silence.
Hey I just had an idea, a Techpriest Dominus with the Raiment of the Technomartyr, in squad of Sisters of Silence with flamers. They would have Cognis and so when charged would ALWAYS inflict 3 hits per flamer to the attacker. No one will charge you !
casvalremdeikun wrote:So, since the FAQ nerfed grenades, does that increase the viability of Transonic Blade Ruststalkers? The loss of grenades but added Strength of the attacks (Str 6 on the Charge is not bad), almost seems to even out the options. But Chord Claws are still pretty awesome. I wish the Blade version was better, since dual-wielding blades looks really cool.
Only 1 grenade per unit per phase. No more 5 haywire grenades in assault from the ruststalkers.
Oh all right, I always knew this like that. I never use grenades so I never had to think about this haha.
As anti-vehicle I feel the Infiltrators are best suited for the job because of the number of S6 attacks they can make on a vehicle, there's no AP but it matters not when you just want to wreck it. Sure, one Haywire grenade is still nice to throw beforehand, I admit.
axisofentropy wrote: Raiment of the Technomartyr affects only Cult Mechanicus models. If Cawl is in your army, you can give another character the incredible Memento-Mortispex relic which can also grant Cognis to all models in a unit.
Ah, forgot it only affected Mechanicus models. Are flamers really good ? I see a lot of love for these weapons, personally the only time I fielded my Torrent flamers with the Kastelan they were nigh useless, while my Phosphor Blasters always shred enemy like nothing. Asking because I'm wondering if I won't buy some flamer Sisters of Silence too. The swords were tried today, and I love them. 30 attacks at S4 AP2 shredded those Marines.
I once hit five 6's with the Macrostubber on Overwatch with him and killed two Necron Warriors. Even in 
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