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 Aaranis wrote:
Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.

Put Cawl in the Secutarii unit. At the front.

He tanks all damage and gets to re-roll his 2+ save.
(A Dominus could do this too. But Cawl is tankier)
They stay behind him shooting and never die.

Only downside is the majority unit toughness will be 4 instead of Cawl's 6. Accounting for the -1S.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.

Put Cawl in the Secutarii unit. At the front.

He tanks all damage and gets to re-roll his 2+ save.
(A Dominus could do this too. But Cawl is tankier)
They stay behind him shooting and never die.

I wrote another list with 15 Secutarii, I'll place my Dominus with Stasis Field and Raiment of the Technomartyr in it. So he'll have a rerollable 2+, and against AP2 the unit can go to ground and I'll tank all on his 2++. When they get up next turn they still shoot at BS2 thanks to the Raiment. I feel this can do wonders. If I make the Secutarii Alpha the Warlord (yeah a one Wound Warlord, I know) and roll for the Shroud trait they'll all have a 3+ cover save when going to ground too, which can be quite nice to have.

I don't possess Cawl and he's not really close on my list of next purchases, but I'll buy him once I have enough to run 2000+ pts lists. I'm not one too keen on using loads of points on single guys. Well, except the Cohort Cybernetica, but I'm un love with Kastelans

I feel the Raiment of the Technomartyr would be a waste on the Dominus as he already has a 2+.

However giving him a Conversion Field and the Omnissiah's Grace (from Fall of Cadia). Would give him a 3++.

So with Secutarii he would have a 2+ (rerollable) a 3++ and feel no pain.
Pretty damn tanky.

Hey thinking about this I kinda want to do it now!

The Raiment gives Cognis to all of your weapons, so all snapshots are made at BS2, which is why I'm giving him this. Sure it's expensive but it nearly doubles my shooting capabilities after standing back up from Going to Ground. Gives me a rad Overwatch too ! And a better Skyfire than nothing, given I won't hurt much with their weapons.

Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.

 Aaranis wrote:

Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.

The only problem with Cawl + Hoplites is getting them where they need to be. Ie within 12" of their target.

 dan2026 wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.

The only problem with Cawl + Hoplites is getting them where they need to be. Ie within 12" of their target.

It's true, but one advantage they have in the skitarii maniple is that they have crusader and scout so it at least gives them a little extra speed.

That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).

EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.

However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?

 Aaranis wrote:
That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).

EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.

However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?

25 point inquisitor with 30 point memento mortispex and Cawl as your HQ is how I will run 2017. The 25+30 pointer joins cawl and a unit of gravaphrons for skyfire or monster hunter. Or I can put the inquisitor in a ranger squad and turn that plasma into some real tank hunter firepower.

Also, Cawl is the ideal HQ to put into a hoplite squad. He can use their scout to get up the field and he can tank for them. Cawl's weapon is 12" and so are the hoplites. And Cawls' weapon has a lot of synergy with haywire attacks since melta is better against vehicles than troops/MCs.

Inquistors are pretty much always worth their dime.
The extra warlord trait is quite useful for the admech.

I was also wondering if anyone here has ever tried to play the Sicirian Killglade formation, I have yet to try it but it seems like a ton of fun.
I'm going to play it in combination with a Baronial Court.
The Knights will act as a mobile artillery platform and should draw some attention while the infiltrators and ruststalkers get closer for that sweet turn two charge.

After today's game against Grey Knights I'm definitely taking a psyker Inquisitor in the future. ALWAYS.

The Sicarian Killclade looks fun but also a huuuge point sink, think about it, you'll be paying 680 points stock for 20 T3 guys. They don't even have Move Through Cover so if your enemy is in a building you're likely to get beaten to death first by Overwatch fire and then by the CC of your target. I don't think it's worth it, maybe yes, to try once, but personally I'd never play that much Sicarians. I think even Infiltrators are not worth their cost.

While this was before Mechanicus had a codex, I used to run a hired HQ unit in the form of an Inquisitor with PA & Psyker 1, rolled on Divination for Prescience, joined to a unit of 5 sanctioned psykers in a stock/occaisionally LasPlas razorback

unit gives several WC, and access to extra firepower & a TL S8AP2 Pie at 24" if memory servces and it hasnt been changed since

costs less than 200 points too if I can actually remember numbers

Its a catch 22, as Cawl's toughness is being wasted in a majority toughness 3 squad, he'll be wounded a lot easier than he should be.

Unfortunate the Secutarii cant be put into a war convocation

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Spoiler:

Wulfey wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).

EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.

However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?

25 point inquisitor with 30 point memento mortispex and Cawl as your HQ is how I will run 2017. The 25+30 pointer joins cawl and a unit of gravaphrons for skyfire or monster hunter. Or I can put the inquisitor in a ranger squad and turn that plasma into some real tank hunter firepower.

Also, Cawl is the ideal HQ to put into a hoplite squad. He can use their scout to get up the field and he can tank for them. Cawl's weapon is 12" and so are the hoplites. And Cawls' weapon has a lot of synergy with haywire attacks since melta is better against vehicles than troops/MCs.

Its a catch 22, as Cawl's toughness is being wasted in a majority toughness 3 squad, he'll be wounded a lot easier than he should be.

Unfortunate the Secutarii cant be put into a war convocation

That's true. At least just using a regular Techpriest makes the pill easier to swallows as he'll only be 1 Toughness more than the rest of the squad.

I had the proof today once more that a simple Techpriest can tank like a champ with his 2+ and 5++, and FNP. I maintain that giving him a stasis field and placing him with the Raiment of the Technomartyr in a Secutarii unit (preferably Peltasts) would do wonders.

A tech-priest is quite a decent choice for 40pts, my only problem with them is that they only have 1W.
A Dominus is a lot better with its multiple wounds and a slightly higher toughness, while being reasonably priced at 105pts.
Inquisitor Coteaz is also a very good option at 100pts and while he has a lower toughness he is also a level 2 psyker.
Another option would be just an Inquisitor with terminator armour, being only 75pts.

Back to Killglade, the Ruststalkers grenades allows them to charge through cover without suffering an initiative penalty.
Sure the overwatch might still hurt, but the formation seems to be a ton of fun in combination with an Imperial Knight formation, as the Sicirians are fast enough to keep up with the Knights and the Knights scary enough to draw most firepower.
Also, I play a ton with my Infiltrators and personally I think they truly justify their costs everytime. But I might just have more luck with them. The Tasergoad loadout especially works like a charm for me, but I guess that this might just depend on your local meta.

 Arlen wrote:
A tech-priest is quite a decent choice for 40pts, my only problem with them is that they only have 1W.
A Dominus is a lot better with its multiple wounds and a slightly higher toughness, while being reasonably priced at 105pts.
Inquisitor Coteaz is also a very good option at 100pts and while he has a lower toughness he is also a level 2 psyker.
Another option would be just an Inquisitor with terminator armour, being only 75pts.

Back to Killglade, the Ruststalkers grenades allows them to charge through cover without suffering an initiative penalty.
Sure the overwatch might still hurt, but the formation seems to be a ton of fun in combination with an Imperial Knight formation, as the Sicirians are fast enough to keep up with the Knights and the Knights scary enough to draw most firepower.
Also, I play a ton with my Infiltrators and personally I think they truly justify their costs everytime. But I might just have more luck with them. The Tasergoad loadout especially works like a charm for me, but I guess that this might just depend on your local meta.

Oh yes I was talking about the Dominus all along, I even forgot the Enginseer I once hit five 6's with the Macrostubber on Overwatch with him and killed two Necron Warriors. Even in CC he can really hold his own if not facing dedicated CC units or characters. It's rather sad that the only way to field two of them in Battleforged are running formations. I'd love to have a second one to accompany a Cohort Cybernetica, to go with a 10-man Vanguard squad.

Yes I thought about an Inquisitor, but I'm not seduced fluff-wise about having an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in my army. At least the Ordo Xenos one may be converted to an Ordo Machinum one. The loadout I thought about for my Inquisitor wouls be an Ordo Xeno one, with power armour, conversion beamer, and the Liber Heresius. Make him a lvl 1 Psyker with Prescience. That's 123 points. He'd go in my 5-man two Arquebii squad on a building to give hell to whatever I'm aiming at. Combined with the Scryerskull Perspicatus, I could reroll ones to hit with prescience if I'm not already using the Doctrinas, use Split-fire once in the game to cover more firing ground, and thanks to the Scryerskull Perspicatus I'll reroll any failed penetration hits, and reroll glancing hits to obtain penetrating hits instead. I feel this is a suitable force to deal with anything from 60". If I roll the Orbital Barrage trait that's one more tool of destruction at my disposal.

I am pleased by this idea.

There's the old cheesy combo where you put an Inquisitor with Rad-grenades in a squad of Vanguard and charge with them, causing you to ID Marines on 2+ in CC with your Alpha's Taser Goad. Bit borderline tactic I feel, but honestly if you want to teach manners to a TFG in your LGS this can't go wrong.

 Aaranis wrote:

Yes I thought about an Inquisitor, but I'm not seduced fluff-wise about having an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in my army. At least the Ordo Xenos one may be converted to an Ordo Machinum one. The loadout I thought about for my Inquisitor wouls be an Ordo Xeno one, with power armour, conversion beamer, and the Liber Heresius. Make him a lvl 1 Psyker with Prescience. That's 123 points. He'd go in my 5-man two Arquebii squad on a building to give hell to whatever I'm aiming at. Combined with the Scryerskull Perspicatus, I could reroll ones to hit with prescience if I'm not already using the Doctrinas, use Split-fire once in the game to cover more firing ground, and thanks to the Scryerskull Perspicatus I'll reroll any failed penetration hits, and reroll glancing hits to obtain penetrating hits instead. I feel this is a suitable force to deal with anything from 60". If I roll the Orbital Barrage trait that's one more tool of destruction at my disposal.

I am pleased by this idea.

There's the old cheesy combo where you put an Inquisitor with Rad-grenades in a squad of Vanguard and charge with them, causing you to ID Marines on 2+ in CC with your Alpha's Taser Goad. Bit borderline tactic I feel, but honestly if you want to teach manners to a TFG in your LGS this can't go wrong.

Oribital Barrage is a lot of fun, but I personally rather roll on the Strategic warlord trait table. Being able to mess with the enemies reserves or gaining army wide stealth in ruins is quite worth it.
Most of the time I try to invest as little as possible in the Inquisitors personal wargear, because for the points you pay for an Inquisitor with conversion beamer I rather take a Dunecrawler with Neutron laser.
I won't lie, having a geared out Inquisitor like yours is pretty sweet. But multiple cheap Inquisitors for even more warlord traits, are also a ton of fun.

Vanguard with an Inquisitor with Rad grenades are a fun option, but my Vanguard get ever so rarely into close combat these days that it is not that worth it. If only we had an assault transport for them .

 Arlen wrote:

Oribital Barrage is a lot of fun, but I personally rather roll on the Strategic warlord trait table. Being able to mess with the enemies reserves or gaining army wide stealth in ruins is quite worth it.
Most of the time I try to invest as little as possible in the Inquisitors personal wargear, because for the points you pay for an Inquisitor with conversion beamer I rather take a Dunecrawler with Neutron laser.
I won't lie, having a geared out Inquisitor like yours is pretty sweet. But multiple cheap Inquisitors for even more warlord traits, are also a ton of fun.

Vanguard with an Inquisitor with Rad grenades are a fun option, but my Vanguard get ever so rarely into close combat these days that it is not that worth it. If only we had an assault transport for them .

Someday we'll have transports, I want to believe. Yes indeed I think I'll drop any CC-focused unit from my lists, even thinking about running Dragoons with the Radium Jezzail :/

I'll already have 3 Dunecrawlers with Neutron Lasers

I would not drop the dragoons Taser Lance, the fact that they are a cheap and dangerous melee unit makes most people spent way to much effort on killing them, to avoid having to face them in CC. Best thing about them is that S4 weapons are not good enough to hurt them, forcing your opponent to fire stuff at them they would also need against our Dunecrawlers to take them down.
I don't know which armies you face most of the time, but against stuff like SM, deamons, Eldar and Dark Eldar they are pretty damn good. Against Necrons and Tau not so much, since even their most basic gun can put a lot of hurt on the Dragoons.

So my group is trying to get back into 40K and I am building up a Mix Skitarii/AdMech list. However it had been a long time since I have played (other than kill team), So I do not know all the Detachment/formation rules.
Can you add an independent character to a formation.
Can you do this before deployment or have to wait until after?
Do units in formations count for detachment required units?

 Nicorex wrote:
So my group is trying to get back into 40K and I am building up a Mix Skitarii/AdMech list. However it had been a long time since I have played (other than kill team), So I do not know all the Detachment/formation rules.
Can you add an independent character to a formation.
Can you do this before deployment or have to wait until after?
Do units in formations count for detachment required units?

Not really a tactics post but maybe I can help you out:

-Can you add an independent character to a formation.
You can only TAKE what is part of that formation, if the formation says you can take an IC then you can take it.
You CAN attach an IC from the formation or any other detachment to a unit or other ICs from any formation/detachment. [Granted they are allowed to do so according to allies and the like.]

-Can you do this before deployment or have to wait until after?
You can do this during deployment.

-Do units in formations count for detachment required units?
Units in formations only count towards what you need to take in the formation itself, only time formations count for requirements are in other formations that take multiple formations. In the case for AdMech that would be like a War Convocation.

I would peruse the lists section to see how people are putting them together, that may help.

I was looking there but it did not really answer my questions. But you did help.
Clarification though.
What I want to do is Have a "Holy Requisitioner" formation but Cawl, can al also add a standard Tech priest to that formation before deployment so that they can all deep strike together?

 Nicorex wrote:
I was looking there but it did not really answer my questions. But you did help.
Clarification though.
What I want to do is Have a "Holy Requisitioner" formation but Cawl, can al also add a standard Tech priest to that formation before deployment so that they can all deep strike together?

Belisarius Cawl can replace a Techpriest Dominus in ANY formation, so yes you can use him in an Holy Requisitioner formation, it fits him really well too, he can get in range to use his gun thanks to that.

Yes I know that.. What i want to know is if I can take another Tech priest along with Cawl in the "Holy Requisitioner" formation before they deep strike.

I dont think you can attach any other characters to a Requisitioner, because the characters themselves have no access to Deep Strike capabilities.

I may be mistaken, I've been out of the loop for a while now, but I'm fairly sure thats still the case

I think IHateNids has got the right of it.

 Nicorex wrote:
Yes I know that.. What i want to know is if I can take another Tech priest along with Cawl in the "Holy Requisitioner" formation before they deep strike.

No, there's not a single Cult Mechanicus formation (except Fall of Cadia maybe) that allows for more than 2 Techpriests in the same formation.

Coming back to the psyker problem, would a Culexus be better than an Inquisitor ? They look incredible !

 Verviedi wrote:
Just bought 10 Peltasts and 10 Hoplites. What exactly makes Peltasts so broken, and how can I run them in a way that makes them friendly?

They are not broken at all with their newly increased cost.

Although technically there are no 40K rules for them now that they've been published.

HandofMars wrote:

 Verviedi wrote:
Just bought 10 Peltasts and 10 Hoplites. What exactly makes Peltasts so broken, and how can I run them in a way that makes them friendly?

They are not broken at all with their newly increased cost.

Although technically there are no 40K rules for them now that they've been published.

What do you mean? Because the rules published by Forgeworld are clearly intended to be used in combination with the Skitarii Codex, which is a 40k army.

Going back to the question, Peltast are not broken. Just tremendously good at what they do, shooting at infantry of any kind.
The best way to run them friendly is just staying with a squad of 10 with no extra's and no IC with a 2+ re-rollable armour save in the unit to tank enemy fire.
They die almost as quickly as normal Skitarii so pretty much all tactics that would kill your Vanguards and Rangers would work on them.

If you mean the preliminary test rules on their website, those are superseded the moment the rules are actually in print (which they are in Inferno). The finalized Secutarii rules for use in 40K armies won't appear until the next Imperial Armour book.

Technically there are no 40K rules for them, and I'd be uncomfortable using the preliminary and now defunct rules.

I would say that if the rules in Inferno don't specify that they apply to 40k, then the experimental rules still are in force until new "40k" rules appear somewhere...