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What do you mean? Because the rules published by Forgeworld are clearly intended to be used in combination with the Skitarii Codex, which is a 40k army.
Going back to the question, Peltast are not broken. Just tremendously good at what they do, shooting at infantry of any kind.
The best way to run them friendly is just staying with a squad of 10 with no extra's and no IC with a 2+ re-rollable armour save in the unit to tank enemy fire.
They die almost as quickly as normal Skitarii so pretty much all tactics that would kill your Vanguards and Rangers would work on them.
I don't understand what you mean, if you don't give them an IC where will the 2+ save come from ?
Also, I think it may be better (not for your wallet) to have at least 15 so that you don't lose the benefit of reducing incoming shots by -1. As soon as you have 9 guys left it's gone, so that's a nice bonus I think.
I'm curious about these new rules, so there's a new Imperial Armour book coming out and their rules will be in there ? How do we know that ?
I don't understand what you mean, if you don't give them an IC where will the 2+ save come from ?
I reacted on Verviedi question on how to run the Peltast in a friendly game. Not placing a Dominus with a 2+ re-rollable save in the unit, would be a friendly thing to do.
A cheap way (in terms of cash) to increase your number of Peltast with 5 is to add 5 normal Vanguards to represent the unit champion, 3x special weapons and one with the omnispex.
Play around a bit with the bits and their colour scheme and voila, you got 5 additional Peltast. The only problem is that Peltast do not really need the special weapons.
There is a new Imperial Armour book (Fires of Cyraxus) planned with a heavy Admech focus, so it is safe to assume that the Peltast and Hoplites will be in there.
I reacted on Verviedi question on how to run the Peltast in a friendly game. Not placing a Dominus with a 2+ re-rollable save in the unit, would be a friendly thing to do.
A cheap way (in terms of cash) to increase your number of Peltast with 5 is to add 5 normal Vanguards to represent the unit champion, 3x special weapons and one with the omnispex.
Play around a bit with the bits and their colour scheme and voila, you got 5 additional Peltast. The only problem is that Peltast do not really need the special weapons.
There is a new Imperial Armour book (Fires of Cyraxus) planned with a heavy Admech focus, so it is safe to assume that the Peltast and Hoplites will be in there.
Oh alright I mixed up things, sorry
What the Peltasts lack is anti-vehicle capabilities, adding Arc Rifles would make them able to deal with anything barring really big MCs. However I see nowhere in their datasheets that they can equip special weapons, only that the Alpha may take the usual Alpha gear, and an omnispex or enhanced data-tether. Which doesn't make sense if we compare with the usual Skitarii units, where it's a regular trooper equipped with the omnispex or data-tether.
Maybe they'll correct those in their new rules then, hope they make the alpha 2W like the others too, so that it may be a more viable option to choose him as your Warlord.
Arlen wrote: Ohw, yeah. I was mistaken, they do not have access to Skitarii special weapons. Hope they add that to them with the new rules .
What would you possibly need from the Special Weapons list? Rangers and Vanguard carry Arc Rifles better and the Plasma Caliver is super expensive on them already.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Bare bones, they're already fantastic and inexpensive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/27 15:32:07
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
That's true indeed, if they could do everything you'd lost the flavour of having your "specialist squads" and who to protect at all costs etc. I personally intend on running one of my two squads of Vanguards with max Haywire, the other with just a Plasma Caliver to deal with some 2+ save, the Radium can do the rest by the sheer volume of shots. I always love when my opponent sees all the 6's to Wound I rolled, and then I tell him "okay, double that, that's your saves". Wiped a full squad of Wraithguard with one salvo from 9 Vanguards. The same who killed a Wraithlord once in Overwatch.
I'll look for my Peltasts to clear the enemy out of cover, to decimate blobs and to deal with Marines with the AP3 from 30".
Holy cow Grav Kataphrons are perfect for clearing the skies ! On a game against a Necron army today at 1000 pts I unleashed a full salvo of 18 shots at the Night Scythe, 3 hits, one 6, so it loses 1 HP and gets immobilized. He rolled a one and the Night Scythe crashed. WIN !
Well not actually win because I did that after he shot off my Rangers who were contesting an objective all by themselves, but still, had I done that earlier...
Aaranis wrote: Holy cow Grav Kataphrons are perfect for clearing the skies ! On a game against a Necron army today at 1000 pts I unleashed a full salvo of 18 shots at the Night Scythe, 3 hits, one 6, so it loses 1 HP and gets immobilized. He rolled a one and the Night Scythe crashed. WIN !
Well not actually win because I did that after he shot off my Rangers who were contesting an objective all by themselves, but still, had I done that earlier...
It's hit or miss with grav servitors and fliers, in my experience. After 3 rounds of shooting at helldrakes I only managed one six, which only forced him to fly straight off the board. The Icarus array is far better because it lets you keep your grav focused on the things that need to be grav'd to death. Only issue is I can't see myself taking the Icarus array because once the fliers are gone it's largely useless.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
It's important to note that Peltasts get a nerf in Inferno, with their guns dropped to S2, and needing to pay for Hammershot. If these rules get into Fires Of Cyraxus, they will be official, but right now the experimental rules are the only fully "legal" ones for 40k.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Drahken_40k wrote:What is the viability of the cohort cybernetica? Is it decent in a competitive setting?
Never tried it yet but I certainly intend on using it, it costs a load of points but with the right loadout you'll resist to most of what's fired at you, and it ensure your other guys can do what they want without getting shot to death.
Vitali Advenil wrote:It's hit or miss with grav servitors and fliers, in my experience. After 3 rounds of shooting at helldrakes I only managed one six, which only forced him to fly straight off the board. The Icarus array is far better because it lets you keep your grav focused on the things that need to be grav'd to death. Only issue is I can't see myself taking the Icarus array because once the fliers are gone it's largely useless.
Oh yes of course the Icarus Array is better, but in this particular game it served well ! I planned on using one of those in my future list, along with a unit of two Laser Neutron Dunecrawlers, just to be sure I have enough firepower
Verviedi wrote:It's important to note that Peltasts get a nerf in Inferno, with their guns dropped to S2, and needing to pay for Hammershot. If these rules get into Fires Of Cyraxus, they will be official, but right now the experimental rules are the only fully "legal" ones for 40k.
What is Inferno ? I'd like to see if the rules are being updated somewhere.
Drahken_40k wrote: What is the viability of the cohort cybernetica? Is it decent in a competitive setting?
Also wondering this. It has quite a bit going for it:
Durability - Barebones, that's, what? FOUR Toughness 7 MCs with 3+//5++(against shooting)//FNP. They're guarded by multiwound TEQs with FNP. Relics like the Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land gives them an additional IWND.
Offense - They get their standard MC attacks at AP2, which is nice. I see so many players having built their Cohorts for CC, which I don't believe is very competitive. The other option is using the TL Hvy Phosphor Blasters which pump out enough MEQ-murder to wipe out Tac squads. The biggest draw has got to be that each individual Robot can target a different unit. When you're facing down a board with hordes, bikes, or parkinglots, you can count on the robots to reach out and torch them.
Mobility - LOL
For units that can almost never get ObjSec, it's tough to argue that they're competitive, but I have to believe they can lay out enough Dakka to be worth their cost.
Hi guys, so I found the PDF in which the future Secutarii of the book Horus Heresy: Inferno are described, with the allegedly future rules for the Secutarii. I joined the PDF here, I hope that works. Let us keep in mind those are the rules for 30k, so we don't know if the 40k Secutarii will have the same rules and options (let's hope they'll be included freely in the form of datasheets). Some of the notable changes from the current FW rules:
Peltasts: - The Alpha now have two Wounds like all the other Alphas, yeah !
- The Flechette Burster has been effectively nerfed to S2, I feel like this is a legitimate change, it reminds me of the Flechette Pistols of the Infiltrators in its rules.
- We must now pay 3 points/model to get the Kinetic Hammershot, if we pay it for one model we must buy it for the whole unit, upping your bare 10 man squad from 120 to 150 points.
- Any model in the squad can switch his Galvanic Caster for a Radium Carbine for free.
- Any model in the squad can buy an Arc Rifle for 30 pts.
- The Alpha can take any of the following as ADDITIONAL weapons options: Radium Pistol 5 pts, Arc Pistol 20 pts, Volkite Serpenta 5 pts.
- The Alpha can switch his Galvanic Caster for an Arc Maul or a Power weapon.
- The Alpha can buy any of the following: Refractor Field, Omnispex, Shattersphere Grenades (which are Radium grenades with S4 AP5, Pinning, Blast and 8") or an Augury Scanner.
Hoplites: - The Alpha may have the same options as the Peltast Alpha, except he can't take the refractor field, as he already have a 5++.
No other changes for them.
What is really interesting is this new character, the Secutarii Axiarch. If he's available in the future for the 40k Skitarii we'll have a way better alternative for the Warlord, we'd have a Warlord with WS4, BS5, S4, T4, 3 Wounds (!), I4, 3 Attacks, Ld9 and a 3+ save. He's also outfitted with the classic Kyropatris Field Generator, and his Titanshard armour gives him IWND, really nice as long as you're not shot with S8 (except if you roll the Eternal Warrior trait for him) as it assures you have a serious Warlord for your Skitarii Maniple if you want to run them solo. He comes equipped with a Refractor Field, an Arc Maul and a Radium Pistol. he may exchange the pistol alone for and Arc Pistol, a Volkite Serpenta, a Photon Gauntlet or an Archeotech Pistol. The Arc maul may be switched for a Power weapon, a Corposant Stave or a Power Fist. Or he exchanges both for the Hoplite weapon and shield. For 5 pts he may Master-Craft a single of his weapons. May buy any of the options of the Alphas I described above.
If we look at his special rules he gets Stubborn, standard Skitarii FNP of 6+ and Precision Shots. However the most interesting is the rule Binaric Stratagems, if there's at least one Axiarch in the same Detachment as the Secutarii, all of them gains one of the following bonuses, decided before the battle and lasting all the game:
- Pain Suppression Override: boosts FNP to 5+ - Helps them gain durability, very welcome on the Secutarii.
- Explorator Synaesthesis: gives Move Through Cover - Can be nice but I wouldn't take this one personally.
- Deconstructive Confluence: results on the Vehicle Damage table inflicted by models with this ability are at +1 - Now you can make vehicles explode with your Arc weaponry !
- Extinction Interlock: the unit gains Preferred Enemy (Infantry) - Sweet Omnissiah this could be really dangerous. Just imagine the deadly shooting phase you could make with that.
Now we have to remember most of these rules are made for 30k, especially some of the weapons options that we don't see here in 40k. But I do hope they'll still keep the Secutarii available in 40k, and most of all gives us access to the Axiarch. I would finally be able to field a dedicated Skitarii Maniple if they change it to include an optional HQ.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So what you're saying is 40k Vanguard can be taken as 30 Peltasts that have switched out their guns for radium carbines?
Huzzah, less 30k stuff i have to buy
essentially yes, and can be taken into squads of 20 with buffs to survivability.
the arc rifle thing makes me super sad though. it is literally my favorite weapon and they nerfed it to high hell (it isn't worth 30 points for a 12" rapid fire haywire gun. hell, 15 wouldn't be worth it for that kind of crap.) but I complained about it enough. I cannot wait to try these guys out next 30k game, and i'm thinking of doing a taghmata with skitarii and robots mixed in for the hell of it.
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Kaptin KlawJaw's FreeBootahz!-1,500pts
The Royal Court of BlüdGrave- 2,000pts || Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
WrentheFaceless wrote: So what you're saying is 40k Vanguard can be taken as 30 Peltasts that have switched out their guns for radium carbines?
Huzzah, less 30k stuff i have to buy
essentially yes, and can be taken into squads of 20 with buffs to survivability.
the arc rifle thing makes me super sad though. it is literally my favorite weapon and they nerfed it to high hell (it isn't worth 30 points for a 12" rapid fire haywire gun. hell, 15 wouldn't be worth it for that kind of crap.) but I complained about it enough. I cannot wait to try these guys out next 30k game, and i'm thinking of doing a taghmata with skitarii and robots mixed in for the hell of it.
You do need to remember though that 30k is not 40k. The Arc Rifle is worth a lot more in 30k.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
WrentheFaceless wrote: So what you're saying is 40k Vanguard can be taken as 30 Peltasts that have switched out their guns for radium carbines?
Huzzah, less 30k stuff i have to buy
essentially yes, and can be taken into squads of 20 with buffs to survivability.
the arc rifle thing makes me super sad though. it is literally my favorite weapon and they nerfed it to high hell (it isn't worth 30 points for a 12" rapid fire haywire gun. hell, 15 wouldn't be worth it for that kind of crap.) but I complained about it enough. I cannot wait to try these guys out next 30k game, and i'm thinking of doing a taghmata with skitarii and robots mixed in for the hell of it.
You do need to remember though that 30k is not 40k. The Arc Rifle is worth a lot more in 30k.
true, that's why they have the hoplites sitting at 130pts for 10 guys that all have haywire at BS 5! or the vulturax at 175pts with a 30" range haywire gun. if you want 3 haywire rifles on peltasts then they will be 210 points for just that, without any way to get close. why do that when you could get a hoplite squad for 265pts in it's own landraider esque transport?
really i'm only salty because I have well over 12 arc rifle models that are not the best when used in 30k and no hoplites.
Edit: I updated my battlescribe and it says arc rifles are ten points each?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/03/13 18:01:51
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Kaptin KlawJaw's FreeBootahz!-1,500pts
The Royal Court of BlüdGrave- 2,000pts || Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
A small question.
I got three Imperial Knights that I want to use in my Admech army. What is the best way to include them?
It is for a big point game of 2000+ points.
-Grand Convocation, for that sweet It Will Not Die.
-Baronial Court, for a Baron, overwatch and the +1 Ion Shield bonus when within 6" of each other.
-Another Imperial Knight formation that might be better?
I will most likely take the Grand Convocation anyway for free IWND on my Onagar Dunecrawlers and Kastelan Robots.
I do not have enough fast attack and elite units to get the max. detachment bonus so I do not count on that.
Well, believe it or not you can take a war convocation with three knights and have all the upgrades for free as well as have canticles on all of the knights, as there is an oathsworn detachment if I remember correctly. if you wanna go nuts, that is a good way to do it. Throw Cawl in for a bigger buff to IWND and you would be golden for the amount of destruction they could cause, along with fielding a decent admech army. this, however, is for a huge point game so it's not to be used lightly.
but, if that is too overboard then maybe just try an adamantine lance formation? it's three paladins or errants, and when within 3" of each other they get to re-roll their ion shields. They will only have blasts but you still get to bring relics and upgrade them with carapace weapons I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/03/14 15:08:31
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts
Kaptin KlawJaw's FreeBootahz!-1,500pts
The Royal Court of BlüdGrave- 2,000pts || Atalurnos Fleetbreaker's Akhelian Corps- 2500pts
Well, it is just a friendly matchup where we want to take the big guns out. So going War Convocation is not really fun.
Formations like that are best reserved for tournaments.
The Adamantite Lance Formation sounds very good, but the 3" is going to be quite the problem. Since the board will be quite stacked with ruins and other obstacles. Nonetheless, it might be a good option to take.
The Barional Court kinda suffers the same problem in this scenario, but since the needed range is larger (6" and 12") it would have less problems with it.
Since we decided that Apocalypse formation are allowed, is the Household Spearhead a good formation?
Well, folks, time for updated unit summaries. I did some work by myself, but I think my experience is lacking. I'd really appreciate some help from more experienced users.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Verviedi wrote: Well, folks, time for updated unit summaries. I did some work by myself, but I think my experience is lacking. I'd really appreciate some help from more experienced users.
I can do my own summary if you'd like, even given my limited experience I learn a lot from my defeats
Skitarii Rangers:
Spoiler:
I agree with what you said, they're best in 5 man units kept in cover. A ratio of 2 Vanguards for 1 Rangers is widely considered as the best ratio, with the Vanguards going in the open field more often. I've found using a squad of 5 with 2 Arc Rifles is effective, allowing you to shoot at vehicles from an elevated position and in the safety of a cover (a 4+ armour won't save you against returning fire from the tanks I've found out). Also, I've been pretty satisfied of a 5 man squad with 2 Arquebii and an Omnispex, when an only when used in a Dominus Maniple, with the Scryerskull Perspicatus on the Techpriest. You'll be almost assured of stripping two HP to your target, while opening up the possibility of a destroyed weapon or an immobilized result. Plus, you can still use the bonus to finish the vehicle off with another anti-armour unit. Without the formation/relic their results are almost always disappointing to me. As for the Plasma Caliver, I've never thought about it but a single one in a squad devoted to staying in a building might have a nice use for that, You'll always have targets within 24". 30 pts is still a load of points.
Skitarii Vanguards:
Spoiler:
I love them ! A full unit of ten, bare bones, pump out 30 shots that could wound twice on 6's ANY Toughness value. They've proven vital to my games, but their flimsiness is still real. I've started adding a Techpriest to tank all the dakka, and it has proven really nice. They'll always die in the end though, such is their tragic fate. The -1 Toughness debuff in CC has never ever been useful to me personally because I never get them in CC but this is free so why not, it can open up to some Instant Death schemes when cooperating with other strong units from your army. Like, you down the Toughness of the Dreadknight to 5, then you can instakill him in CC with your S10 Kastelans. Situational perhaps, but the possibility exists nonetheless. As for the special weapons, don't even think about the Arquebii, ou want these guys up close. The Arc Rifles I have never tried yet but they can give you a solution against vehicles when you need it. The Plasma Caliver is still a risky weapon to take because you'llbe sad when your 30 pts weapons will get shot, but hey it's still nice to have when you're facing TEQs.
Sicarian Infiltrators:
Spoiler:
I may not have played enough games with them, but I don't think I'm using them really optimally with my limited list choices. I run them in 5 man squads, Tasers and Flechette pistols, with the Omniscient Mask to give them Zealot. I think they're tricky to use well, I'm trying to infiltrate them in a manner to allow me to approach the shooty backfield units, but I rarely dare make them charge in the buildings because of the lack of offensive grenades, and my constant fear of overwatch fire. I truely believe they are still devastating though, especially when you combine Zealot with the CC Doctrinas to drown in the weight of attacks. The Flechette Pistols can be devastating with some nice rolls too, they must be really deadly against blobs of T3 grunts. I've also used them hidden near a problematic unit to diminish their performances, but wasting 185 pts just for that may be a bit much. Overall, I think they're really nice but you have to be wary of their manoeuvring, and the fact that they're T3 still exposes them to ID most of the time.
Sicarian Ruststalkers I will not comment, I have never ever played them.
Ironstrider Ballistarii, never played them either, but I can't see their uses unless taken as part of the Ironstrider Cavaliers formation. They don't have a 5+ cover save, have a lower WS than the Dragoons, and really you have better solutions than using Autocannons for 55 pts in your army. I don't intend on playing them honestly.
Sydonian Dragoon:
Spoiler:
I only have one of them but he really does its job most of the time. 45 pts is cheap enough that you don't really cry when he dies, and just enough that you'll be happy when he destroys a vehicle from behind or kills 6 guys in a single charge. He's resilient to light arms fire but will crumble against a dedicated anti-vehicle unit in one turn. Use Scout and his big movement to get him to cover to boost his 5+ and outflank your targets with them. Never tried the Radium Jezzail but I can imagine quite easily that in a unit of 2-3 equipped with them they might be dangerous enough to support your army. I'll try that someday !
Onager Dunecrawler:
Spoiler:
Only ever fielded one at a time, but he's worthy of respect. I always played him with the Neutron Laser and the ability to make explode vehicles in one shot is quite savoury to have. That is way more dangerous when taken in the same Dominus Maniple as the Arquebii team I described earlier. If you're running him solo like I do for now I'd consider buying him the Cognis Manipulator, it's 25 pts but gives you IWND, helping you heal up a little as your 6++ won't save you. Bonus points if you hide him in a ruin to give him a 4+ cover save ! I'll try a squad of 3 Neutron Lasers once I have them, I can see it being the bane of... Well, everything. If you intend on having a unit of Vanguards or something to bodyguard them, consider taking the 10 points Mindscanner Probe, it denies the bonus charge attack on any of your units getting charged within a 6" radius.
Techpriest Dominus:
Spoiler:
The Omnissiah's chosen. This guy will take a lot of punishment for whichever unit you place him into. His standard weapons are really nice, but I started using an Eradication Ray when out with the Vanguard squad and I have to say I love it so far. With the relics he has access to you can make him work for a few scenarios, the classic one is to give him the IWND staff when in a unit of Kataphrons (or better, in a Cohort Cybernetica). What works if you place him in a Vanguard unit is to place him first line, and give him both the stasis field and the relic to give Cognis to the unit, that way you can tank the AP2 with the stasis field while going to ground, and the turn you get back up you fire at BS2 instead of 1. Allows you to fire more easily on flyers too ! Definitely a must have in every AdMech army. It's tricky to have multiple Dominii in your formation though.
Kataphron Destroyers:
Spoiler:
I really like those guys, they're most of the time the first thing my opponent focuses when he can. The volume of fire they can pump out is devastating, I successfully crashed a flyer with the 3 man squad on lucky rolls. Keep them in cover though, 4+ armour is not really that great and most of all these guys don't have FNP. I'd advise on taking the Cognis Flamers only when you intend on advancing on the board with them, best with a Techpriest. Otherwise the Phosphor Blaster is not the best weapon ever but if you can reduce the cover of your target that's that. The Plasma Cannon I never tried, but the reduced range seems underwhelming, and the Gets Hot still lurks.
Never tried the Breachers by myself, but they seem special to use. They're better against vehicles but if you choose them instead of Grav-Destroyers you'll lose your AP2 weaponry and volume of fire. The Torsion Cannon also don't seem that good, or only in limited numbers for a specific task. It's only one shot at BS3 after all.
I don't know the Electropriests that much neither, but I do know if you want to run them it's in very specific builds that require LOTS of them.
Kastelan Maniples:
Spoiler:
These are my favourite even though I manage to have them killed on every game, being able to shoot up to 12 S6 AP3 36" Luminagen for just two robots is wonderful, this unit will be the bane of MEQs. They are pretty tough, and the Datasmith can tank the AP3 thanks to his Artificer Armour. They come stock with two Power Fists (that hits at their Initiative, due to them being MCs) and Torrent Flamers. The flamers aren't particularly devastating but it can very well clean up the hordes facing you before finishing them off. I play them with the twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters + the carapace-mounted one. Due to them being both Luminagen and fired from an MC, you can fire the carapace-mounted ones before to hope to reduce the cover by 1 BEFORE firing your twin-linked ones. The Datasmith is really good as well, with a better save than his robots, 2+ and 5++ in CC too, plus the FNP. His pistol his powerful, and can do nice damage on vehicles should you get in range with them. As of their protocols, I only run them in a single Maniple for now, so I never tried switching off the FNP to give them this extra durability. Be advised they are not invincible, they'll fall to lots of firepower, poisoned weaponry, psykers, or generally being charged with lots of AP3 weapons.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/03/15 09:16:33
Oh boy, I also got some personal summaries I would like to share Well here goes nothing.
Skitarii Vanguard
Spoiler:
Hands down one of the best troops choices in the game atm, Full squad of 10 bare bones can take on pretty much anything with a toughness value no matter how high.
I run them mostly bare bones, but when the Vanguard Alpha is my warlord I also like to take Plasma Calivers, "preferred enemy (everything)" migrates the gets hot perfectly and they pack one hell of a punch.
Their biggest problem is getting in range, but with the Skitarii Maniple's scout move you are pretty much guaranteed to have some enemies on turn 1 in range.
Arc Rifles and the Arquebus are a no go on these guys. Just not their type of weapons. Omnispex are a good option, but not necessary since your weapons are only AP5. Meaning that most people can rely on an armour save equal or better then common coversaves.
Only against something like a DA Ravenwing with the insane rerollable cover saves you might want to take these for sure.
Skitarii Rangers
Spoiler:
Great for holding objectives in your own deployment zone, or for stalking the battlefield with Arc Rifles. My best result with these guys come from 5 man squads with Arc Rifles who stalk the battlefield in search of armour values.
Arquebus or bare bones squads do also work fine, but have a completely different role from the Arc Rifle Squad. When I take them with the Arquebus or bare bones I use them to take out heavy weapon carriers, sergeants, unit champions, pretty much anything that carries an upgrade and is not an IDC. Precision Shots on weapons for your troop choices are a lot of fun.
Omnispex are a better option on the rangers then the Vanguard, since your basic weapons have AP4, allowing you to take on entrenched stuff like Tau infantry a lot better.
Sicarian Ruststalkers
Spoiler:
These guys are a ton of fun to use. Their grenades allow you to charge through cover without suffering the initiative penalty, meaning that they can take on pretty much any entrenched foe hiding in some ruins.
The fact that their Transonic weapons need one round of close combat to become AP2 is actually a great boon. Since it allows you to kill a decent amount of models on turn you charge without killing the enemy unit (if it is big enough) outright, keeping you safe in your opponents next turns shooting phase. After that you clean up the unit in your opponents turn with the AP2. Include the Prehensile Dataspike and you also got a unit that can reliably take out an enemy vehicle or walker in one turn.
Their biggest issue is that they are super flimsy with only T3 and a 4+/6++/5+++ luckily they are fast. Movement + Dunecrawler + run + Dunecrawler (+crusader and scout in the maniple) makes up for an average movement of 15"" ( or 23" in maniple) in your first turn. Meaning that they are almost guaranteed to charge a unit on their second turn. Combine their charge with the charge of a Dragoon and they will be a smashing hit. Transonic Blades never really outperform their counterpart and removes your ability to charge through terrain without suffering the initiative penalty, so personally I would say that the +1 strength is not worth losing the mindscrambler grenades for.
Sicarian Infiltrators
Spoiler:
Pretty much always make their points back when I play them. A single squad of these and some Dragoons really put some pressure on your opponents army. Fast, Infiltrating and stealth give these guys a much better survival chance then the ruststalkers, hiding them inside some ruins at the start of the game is a great way to ensure some decent saves against armies with out ignore cover options.
Power Sword and the Stubcarbine are decent options, but the Taser Goads and Flechette blaster outperform those options with a landslide. The sheer amount of S6 attacks this unit can whip out is insane. It is not uncommon for me to deal more hits then the number of attacks I had.
They shine in taking out units who would normally rely on their armour save or insane coversave to survive outside of ruins or other type of terrain.
Playing this unit and the ruststalkers in the Killglade formation is a fantastic way to add a close combat element to your army
Sydonian Dragoons
Spoiler:
Super tanky for the amount of points you pay for it. I mostly play against Marines and them having to sacrifice a multimelta shot or gravshots at a squad of these or else having to face them in close combat makes them worth their dime.
Their biggest problem is not a game issue, but a money issue. I would love to field 10 of these, but paying €380,- for only 450 points is a goddamn huge amount of money for not even a quarter of an 1850 army.
Running them solo or in squads of two seems to be the best way to play them. Bigger units become a hassle to move around and will be less point efficient then one or two.
melee skitarii While Skitarii function great as an ranged army, having some Ruststalkers, Infiltrators and/or several Dragoons for some melee punch really boosts the effectiveness of your army.
Since all three of our melee units are fast and really, really good in close combat, they will almost certainly be a focus point for any opponent. Combining charges with Dragoons allows your
Ruststalkers and/or Infiltrators to charge without having to worry about overwatch, while most basic units will not even be able to hurt the Dragoons with their basic guns.
Ironstrider Ballistrarii
Spoiler:
Most commonly used by me as tax for the Ironstrider Cavaliers formation. Snap Shots on BS2 makes them quite interesting as alternative AA platforms and precision shots allows them to single out high priority targets.
Having no inbuild cover save really hurts them compared to the Dragoons. Most of the time, this unit is not worth taking. Taking a lascannon on them grants you some good anti-armour shots, but the 20pts price tag for a total of 75pts does not make up for it.
Onagar Dunecrawlers
Spoiler:
Fantastic walker. Taken barebones they pose a decent threat to any army, but with a Neutron Laser or Icarus Array they can absolutely dominate the battlefield. Three of these in one squad for that sweet 4++ save allows them to take a gakload of damage.
If you got the points left, taking a Cognis heavy stubber for 5pts is never a real waste of points. Combined with the Neutron Laser and you got a fantastic squad to takeout almost any blob of enemies or elite squads.
I normally run 4 or 5 of these. 2x 2 with the Neutron Laser or 3 with the Neutron laser + 2 with the Icarus Array.
Techpriest Dominus
Spoiler:
I try to avoid taking one of these most of the time, through formations or by taking Cawl instead.
They are good HQ's, but most of the time I rather use those 105pts to get another Vanguard squad or Rangers with Arc rifles.
Kataphron Breachers
Spoiler:
These guys are actually pretty good when used with the Holy Requisitioner formation or when deployed in your backline.
The Heavy Arc rifles allows for some sure way vehicle removal, being 36" one squad with these can reliably stop most vehicles in one turn.
The Torion Cannon is a fun weapon that has a really rough time dealing with the basic BS3 of the Kataphrons.
Sadly it is not as good as the Arc rifles in removing vehicles, nor is it as good as the grav-cannons of the Destroyers against MC.
The Torsion Cannon can be quite good against armies with MC with a bad armour save or vehicles with 10 or 11 as armour value.
Kataphron Destroyers
Spoiler:
Units with Grav-Cannons rule the Meta, so do these. Sure they do not have the Grave amp special rule, but a longer range and more shots per volley balances that out quite decently.
Plasma Culverin is amlost never worth taking, maybe against deamons, but otherwise Grav is still the superior option.
Both priests units Never played these. If I want to have some melee units in my army, I almost always pick some from my Skitarii.
Kastelan Robot Maniple
Spoiler:
A bit expensive on points, but most certainly worth taking. I use them mostly with phosphor blasters for hands and flamers for the carapace mounted weapons.
This unit always attracts a lot of fire and is an absolute nightmare for armies without Grav.
I almost never bother switching protocols, since having Feel no Pain on them is absolute boss.
I actually disagree about the arc rifles on the vanguard. Arc rifles are 24'' rapid fire, meaning you're having to get closer. Rangers are better for hanging out back, as you said, because of their longer range. Vanguard are generally going to be closer, and have an easier time using them.
Also, if I take a plasma caviler in the vanguard squad, I'll always take an omnispex. Shoving that cover save from a 4+ to a 5+ against my plasma is always nice, especially if I can get it to a 6+ with some lumagen support.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
Edited my post to include the Kastelan Robots as well.
Vitali Advenil wrote: I actually disagree about the arc rifles on the vanguard. Arc rifles are 24'' rapid fire, meaning you're having to get closer. Rangers are better for hanging out back, as you said, because of their longer range. Vanguard are generally going to be closer, and have an easier time using them.
Also, if I take a plasma caviler in the vanguard squad, I'll always take an omnispex. Shoving that cover save from a 4+ to a 5+ against my plasma is always nice, especially if I can get it to a 6+ with some lumagen support.
I agree with you, I think Arc Rifles are great with both units. You'll always be closer with Vanguards but I just think they're safer in the hidden Ranger squads, because my Vanguards die a lot. Also, having even more Radium shots is seducing, and forces you to shoot at non-vehicles. Having 7 or 8 guys not firing at something because the Arc Rifles fired at a vehicle is still 21 or 24 shots "lost" in my opinion. But both options are viable I believe.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted 
![[Disk]](/dakkaforum/templates/default/images/icon_disk.gif){kind=icon}
3000
413th Lucius Exterminaton Legion- 4,000pts 
or the vulturax at 175pts with a 30" range haywire gun. if you want 3 haywire rifles on peltasts then they will be 210 points for just that, without any way to get close. why do that when you could get a hoplite squad for 265pts in it's own landraider esque transport?
