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Hey guys, I didn't read all the thread obviously, but as I see in the last pages you see mobility as an issue. Now, I didn't get to play a full game yet (only Kill Team, my 1000 pts list is waiting for my paintbrush), but what do you think about the Ironstrider Cavaliers formation ? Consisting of 2 units of Dragoons and one of Ballistarii, you get the flank attack at turn 1 with a really good chance to succeed your roll, and that means it would be a nice threat to give to the enemy right ? He has to choose between firing at your troops and allow the Ironstriders to charge/fire at his key units, or try to bring them down, and that leaves room to breathe to your guys.
Personally I'll run my list with 10 Vanguards /w plasma, 5 Rangers /w 2 Arquebii, 5 Rangers, one Dragoon, all that allied to 3 grav Destroyers, a Techpriest and a Kastelan Maniple. If I let the Kastelan and the servitors take the hits that should protect most of my guys right ? Really looking forward to see these Kastelan in action, love their models !
Yes I keep reading that Ballistarii ain't that good. Still tho, they can help destroy a tank with the twin-linked Cognis Lascannon if he have the shot, to be finished by a charge of Dragoons. If you lack any anti-tank weaponry other than that, but you shouldn't rely only on them to destroy armor though.
Hey guys, what is your opinions on Sicarians ? I got 5 of them that I mounted as Infiltrators with Taser goads and Flechette blasters, but I didn't include them in my 1000 pts list. An excellent player from my local store says they're one of the worst units of the Skitarii, but better than Ruststalkers. Why so ? Are they overpriced ? Too squishy ? It's true that I'm hesitant to paying 185 pts for 5 T3 2W models, but what do I know. Anyone had any experience with these strider guys ?
Aaranis wrote: Hey guys, what is your opinions on Sicarians ? I got 5 of them that I mounted as Infiltrators with Taser goads and Flechette blasters, but I didn't include them in my 1000 pts list. An excellent player from my local store says they're one of the worst units of the Skitarii, but better than Ruststalkers. Why so ? Are they overpriced ? Too squishy ? It's true that I'm hesitant to paying 185 pts for 5 T3 2W models, but what do I know. Anyone had any experience with these strider guys ?
i think you encountered a case of the "either a unit is insanely OP on paper or it's totally 100% worthless" that pervades gaming communities. lol
They have problems, feel no pain and 2 wounds on a model with only T3 means your feel no pain and 2 wounds don't really count much as they're doubled out by strength 6 guns. But, that still means that your opponent is having to use it's high strength guns for this as regular line troop weapons will still usually give you your armor save, fnp and 2 wounds.
I prefer infiltrators to ruststalkers because they can function in close range shooting, and the disruption aura is really nice. They're a force multiplier so their usefulness can't really be understood by themselves.
They're definitely not awful, but they only really work in concert with good deployment and with other units. Deep strike some allies to disrupt your enemies lines long enough to get the stalkers up the board. use them to counter-charge any melee units that come after your vanguard/rangers, things like that.
Thing is, I'm really going to play with a lot of shooting, but I still need some CC units to protects my shooters so I don't get butchered by turn 3 (Assault Marines are really indeed fast haha), and I think they'd be good in that role with their aura. However, I feel Ruststalkers might be better used in offense with their grenades and AP-ignoring possibilities. But Infiltrators have Infiltrate and Stealth, so they tend to be better as offensive choices. I'd need two units of 5 to protect my gunlines efficiently, except if my Kastelans are here, because no one would charge a Kastelan without a lot of though guys.
Guys I'm starting to build a 2000 pts list to know where to go with my purchases, and I was wondering.
I want to stay Battleforged, really not Unbound at all so. I'd like to include a Cohort Cybernetica in my list. Can I run my Skitarii list allied with Cult Mechanicus this way ? Or to have them as allies, I absolutely require an Allied detachment ? I don't really want to have two Techpriests but I'd like to run my Kastelans efficiently, so this formation seemed the best with an Autocaduceus to keep them alive.
I hope I'm being clear, my English is not perfect so it's hard to formulate difficult sentences haha
Ah okay thanks I was always confused with those. So I can take it ? Nice ! However I won't have any place for my lone Kataphron unit then, I might have to swap some stuff.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Would it be cheesy to have 6 Robots in my Cohort Cybernetica at 2000 pts ? And also, Power Fists for them, yay or nay ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/01/28 21:14:55
3x Kastelan Robots and 1 Datasmith, Twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Incendine Combustor - 440 pts
3x Kastelan Robots and 1 Datasmith, Twin-linked Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Incendine Combustor - 440 pts
1x Techpriest Dominus, Volkite Blaster and Macrostubber, Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land, Raiment of the Technomartyrs - 165 pts
The Warlord's unit is basically just a dakka dispenser, I think about keeping them close to the Onagers so they can protect them and benefit from the Ld10 due to the Onagers and their Broad Spectrum Data Tether.
The other Vanguards squad should try to follow close to the Sicarians if that works, to assist them in melee and shoot vehicles.
The Sicarian will try to murder anything they get close to, with assistance from the Radsquad to get the most out of the debuffs.
Dragoons are going to do Dragoon stuff, so charging weak squad or light vehicles.
Onagers will stay away from the heat of battle and sow S10 Blasts everywhere, because that works. Additional Heavy Stubbers are there because I had the points and they allow them to shoot really meanly with that much guns on anything coming close to them. More of an insurance really.
And of course the Cohort Cybernetica, delivering torrent flames and loads of S6 shots while being basically invincible of I'm lucky enough. The Techpriest is an additional shooting force but I guess most of the time he'll redirect shots from the Kastelan and repair them.
What do you think about this ? I don't know what kind of lists I could face at this points level, but it looks like I can cover almost any situations. Maybe things could get difficult against things like Genestealers who can ambush and stuff.
Oh I'm going to mount them all this way, I need flamers, and torrent flamers are even better !
On a side note, I'm thinking about placing a Hellrain Brigade in a 1500 pts list as allies for an AdMech force. Would it be nice ? It's seems pretty cool from my newbie point of view. As long as I keep the Commissar alive I can send suicide squads to get vehicles or anything else in Deep Strike. And I keep the Taurox for my Vanguards Plasma squad or anything else. Rules of the detachment below:
Spoiler:
Nothing prevents me to grab two of these detachments right ? Could use two Tauroxes, and that would just make me buy two Start Collecting boxes. I like infantry, so if I could take an alternative to Kataphron spam that would be nice. Kastelans forever though, and Techpriests. I'll look up the rules of Fall of Cadia someday, I'll ask my LGS if I can borrow it from someone. There seems to be a bunch of cool rules in there.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Yep, take two of them. Make the suicide squad all Plasma, including a Plasma Pistol, and make the Command Squad all Melta or Volley Guns (if you're holding an objective). Deep Strike all of them no matter what and just sit back and enjoy a respawning squad and stuff.
Hmm the Command Squad doesn't respawn though, so thinking about outfitting them with Volley Guns to have some nice staying power. I was thinking about using a Plasma pistol, Meltagun and a Volley Gun or Flamer for the regular squad, in the 1500 pts list I made. I already have a Plasma Caliver in my Warlord's unit and he'll have the Taurox, so I don't know if any more is necessary ?
I was thinking about full Volley Gun in the command squad, and keep the regular squad without too much points in it honestly, maybe a Plasma pistol for the range. My Warlord's unit is already going to have Preferred Enemy with two Plasma Calivers, so I don't think having any more is really useful to have apart costing me points. As for the anti-tank, I planned for two Arquebii,three Kataphrons with Gravguns, a Dragoon and an Onager with Neutron Laser. Isn't that enough to deal with armour ? In 1500 pts games that is. I still need some Troops to grab objectives after all, and shoot those marines.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Hey, new Admech/Skitarii player. First of all, loving the army, it's a huge contrast to my orks. However, I've encountered a problem I'm not used to: power.
When listbuilding with orks, it's like trying to make a gallon of orange juice with three oranges. I have to pick and choose so carefully to make sure what I'm bringing won't immediately fall over and die to a stiff breeze. Admech, meanwhile, feels so optimized and open. I've played a total of three games with my admech, and I've won each time in a landslide- twice against Tau, once against an 1850 chaos list where I took 1600 points of admech (all I have) and just piled on upgrades to even up the points.
Basically, how can I power-down my lists? Every unit we have hits hard or just never dies. If I'm going up against a new player, I want to be able to go easy on them. It's not like orks where I can take stormboyz or footslog to dumb-down my list- I literally cannot see any options to make my army worse outside of just not taking some units.
Hi there ! It's kinda funny for me because you're saying you're new to the AdMech and at the same time have 1500 points painted, it makes me feel so slow with my 12 Skitarii models painted
But anyway, I'm kinda surprised AdMech is that powerful. Are you already mixing in Skitarii units ? Because one way to "downgrade" (as if, making it more even of a chance to at least wound your army) would be to switch some Kataphrons for Skitarii Vanguards or Rangers. Both have a nice firepower but Skitarii are flimsy and weak in melee, might give more of a chance to a new player than to try to charge you Cognis flamers and try not to die.
You could encourage them playing the objectives, AdMech is not really fast and so could be outmanoeuvred, even if it requires some skill to do so without getting shot. Did you ever played against Eldar ? I'm curious at what it would be. Can you give an exemple of a list you use too ? Thanks !
Another question guys, what do you think about giving pistol + melee weapon on an Alpha ? I modelled my Warlord to have a Taser Goad and a Phosphor Blast Pistol and so would like to stay WYSIWYG mostly. Can Vanguards be effective in CC, with or without their Doctrines ? In Kill Team only my Dragoon can actually kill stuff in CC, never ever had I a Vanguard even wounding something.
Ah I'm glad you're motivated to paint, I had to paint 10 Skitarii and one Dragoon for an event in one month and it was too much in once, I painted as much as I could but in the end I was in a burnout from painting haha ! Now I'm painting some 30K Night Lords, it's a refreshing change to paint those Space Marines, as opposed to the beautiful but detail-heavy Skitarii.
Heh, played a 1000 pts list against Eldars today. Wraithlord goes through a ruin to face my Vanguard squad, kills two with his flamers, prepares to charge. As he runs towards them, the Vanguards shoot on Overwatch. Out of 24 shots, three hits. Two 6's to Wound, so 4 Wounds. He fails his saves. The Wraithlord, horribly irradiated, die and fall in front of the Radtroopers.
I'm pretty damn new and managed to pick up the Eradication Cohort box set for pretty cheap - Has anyone got any info on if its good, how the formation is, how it plays, points, etc...?
Not much info on it from what I've google'd and not sure how to play it, or if its even half decent!
Hi, I had the chance to grab that box before they went out of stock too, it's a nice discount in itself so if you got the whole bow cheaper you're that much luckier
As for the formation, here's the rule:
Surgical Precision: If an Eradication Cohort unit inflicts any unsaved Wounds or any glancing or penetrating hits upon an enemy unit, then for the remainder of the phase all other units from this Formation gain the Preferred Enemy special rule when targeting that enemy unit.
I think this might be good only against Deathstars, otherwise you wouldn't use all of these units against a single enemy unit. The Dragoon and the Infiltrators will be far away from the center of the action most of the time, and so would have different targets. But hey, it's still a "free" rule, and nothing prevents you to just use it with two units, like you shot an enemy unit with the Dragoon and the Infiltrators, then charge to finish him off in CC. I personally don't like Electro-Priests at all, so I'd never run this formation, I even intend on selling them. If you want to run this formation seriously, buy more Electro-priests so they don't get shot down in one turn.
buddha wrote: So what are Ad Mech players thoughts for fast moving objective grabbers?
I'm struggling with warp spider spam and battle company which can just out position me for objectives especially in maelstrom.
The fastest units I see here may be the Sicarians and the Ironstriders thanks to their +3" in moving, sprinting and charging. However Sicarians are fairly flimsy and costly, but will drown your enemy in attacks as long as it's not a unit full of flamers or scatterbikes (tested and disapproved, 1 survivor out of the 5). Dragoons can be really good, they even have Crusader without the need to be in a Skitarii Maniple and have a natural 5+ cover save, as well as AV11 all around. And they're perfect in CC.
Tiger9gamer wrote: interesting question now; if he attaches to a unit of sicarians, does he get dune strider as it's a special rule? if so then that could make him a touch faster.
I really don't believe that rule can be shared. He might get Scout from the Skitarii Maniple though, that's something.
Indeed they are quite underwhelming in CC, even with the weapon that allows for one attack at S10 AP2, it's still one attack. Maybe give them Cognis with the Memento-Mortispex or the Raiment of the Technomartyr if you want some security, and remember you don't scatter only as long as you stay within 6" of an objective.
On another subject, do you guys have trust issues with your regular Skitarii footmen ? I'm starting to think they are not really effective at all just because of their flimsiness. Okay the two games I played were against a list with loads of Scatterbikes and the other was a 1350 pts game with a Knight, 3 Vindicators and 9 Obliteratii, so there WAS a lot of S6+ flying around. Next time I'm facing this dreadful Grey Knights list full of S6 AP4 flamers and Torrent flamers so I expect another genocide of cyborgs. I feel like even at low points games there's always a few things that will wreck whole units in one turn and it's starting to be irritating. I love the models and their rules, and my Vanguards are quite effective sometimes when they get to shoot, but it's becoming masochism to field them I feel. Same for the Infiltrators, what good is having 2 Wounds when everyone and their dogs hits or shoots at S6 ?
I'm not really fan of Kataphrons but I'm considering switching my main force to Cult Mechanicus with allied Skitarii if this goes on. I like the feeling of safety in numbers the Skitarii provide me but if they all die in one shooting phase without any saves it's just dreadfully sad to me.
Thoughts about this ? Anyone else feels like this ? Is it just bad matchups ?
fr3ddy wrote: hey all, am curious from player experience how reliable is a 5~6 dragoon unit running around supported by vanguard and infiltrator behind in a skitarii maniple??
I am planning to use it as a secondary to my Deathwatch Frag Cannons rhino CAD.
I require comments and inputs
You can't go wrong with Dragoons, but I'd run them as two units of 3 just so I could cover more terrain and not be blocked in my manoeuvers by the sheer amount of scenery that could be on the terrain. Infiltrators are nice because they can keep up with them as of their movement range, and the debuff aura can help you even further, just make sure to hide them well while still being near your target, because boy do they die easily.
Guys, in the middle of my depression about Skitarii being too flimsy I remembered that Secutarii Peltasts existed. Just had another look at their datasheets and oh lord they look straight from the Mecha-Heavens ! Here's the datasheet for those who wonder:
Get the unit to 20 men to max out the Kyropatris field generator and have some more firepower, give them a lead by a Techpriest Dominus to tank the AP4 thanks to rerolls of 1's on armour saves, and a Scryerskull if you want to up their Ld to 10. Add the mandatory Omnispex. Remember they're relentless, so that Salvo 2/4 24" S3 Shred gun becomes an Assault 4 24" S3 Shred gun. With the different ammunition types you can do all kind of damage on your enemy, the 30" S4 AP3 Rending gun is really nasty too, making them better than Rangers as of shooting. The 20 small blasts of 18" S3 AP5 that ignores line of sight and cover looks fun to use too.
Okay they're still flimsy but at the same time they're terrifying, and still negates all shots made at them by 1S, at least allowing for the 6+ FNP. And they're not alone on the battlefield either, give the enemy a Cohort Cybernetica or some Grav Destroyers to shoot at and they should live long enough to do significant damage.
I'm really thinking about adding them to my army, as an allied Skitarii Maniple, though. I had no good experience of my Warlord being an Alpha Vanguard, he keeps dying all the time. And for some reason the Secutarii Alphas only have one Wound. With another 10 Vanguards and 5 Rangers to go grab objective (no one ever shoots at them because they look inoffensive, I keep using that to an advantage), 2 or 3 Dunecrawlers, and 1 or 2 Dragoons, that would be a nice allied detachment for my Cohort Cybernetica.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Yeah, the Secutarii are pretty awesome. The Haywire Stick guys are pretty cool as a counter charge element but the Peltasts are definitely the winner to me.
They look good but too much short-ranged to me, and I only trust Dragoons and Sicarian for CC duty. We already have a lot of Haywire in both armies I think. The 5++ is nice to heave though !
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Yeah, the Secutarii are pretty awesome. The Haywire Stick guys are pretty cool as a counter charge element but the Peltasts are definitely the winner to me.
They look good but too much short-ranged to me, and I only trust Dragoons and Sicarian for CC duty. We already have a lot of Haywire in both armies I think. The 5++ is nice to heave though !
Hence why I say Counter Charge. Don't invest into them and keep them at minimum, and use them against outflanking units or Deep Strikers.
I'd rather have so much dakka that no one can charge me at all
Vitali Advenil wrote:So I'm still trying to figure out how to run Ruststalkers. Unlike Infiltrators, they don't get infiltrate or stealth, which really helps them get into position and stay alive for a turn two charge. I can give my Ruststalkers scout with the standard Skitarii formation, but they still get shot to hell before they can get anywhere. I'm considering keeping them back near valuable units as a counter-charge unit, but it almost seems like a waste. How do y'all use your Ruststalkers?
Apart from running from cover to cover until you reach an enemy I don't see how to make them survive. Not that I venerate Peltasts or anything but they're able to forgo their shooting phase to give Shroud to a friendly unit in 18" of them, may help a bit. Otherwise, except by taking a big pack of them you'll have the same problems as with regular Skitarii troops, except you move 9" and not 6". I prefer Infiltrators too but admit Ruststalkers are worth a try with their S6 charges.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: You don't always get that choice though. Especially when I see CSM coming out to play with their Raptor and Terminators formations.
When you mean counter-charge, what scenario do you think of exactly ? Like, a unit deepstrikes right besides your guys, and so you preventively charge them first ? Or my nice shooty unit just got charged and is getting slaughtered, so I send in the Hoplites ?
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: It would be a combination of both. You have different scenarios in which they would do something:
1. Unit arrives from Deep Strike or outflanking and does shooting. Unit will likely have some sorta melee capability, and you charge them before they can charge you. Either that or they have none, and you win the fight.
2. A unit arrives and goes to melee instead. You won't likely be wiped out the first round bar terrible rolling, so you go in to help clean up whatever is left.
I mostly suggest Hoplites because of their numbers and the fact other melee options in the codex want to move forward and obliterate the enemy to get their costs back.
Yeah you wouldn't want to keep Sicarians at the back just to protect your shooters. Sure, a 10-man squad of Hoplites is cheaper for that role, I agree.
Hey guys I wrote a list around the Secutarii, if anyone of you could check it and would let me know what you think about it I'd be ever grateful, thanks !
Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.
Aaranis wrote: Got to admit I hesitate between one or two squads. If I run two squads and lose a single guy (that will happen quite fast) I consequently lose the -1S on incoming shots, which I feel is quite a nice bonus to have. A bigger squad makes a bigger threat too. I'm thinking about placing my Dominus tank in there to make it unstoppable but I like my Vanguards too.
Put Cawl in the Secutarii unit. At the front.
He tanks all damage and gets to re-roll his 2+ save.
(A Dominus could do this too. But Cawl is tankier)
They stay behind him shooting and never die.
I wrote another list with 15 Secutarii, I'll place my Dominus with Stasis Field and Raiment of the Technomartyr in it. So he'll have a rerollable 2+, and against AP2 the unit can go to ground and I'll tank all on his 2++. When they get up next turn they still shoot at BS2 thanks to the Raiment. I feel this can do wonders. If I make the Secutarii Alpha the Warlord (yeah a one Wound Warlord, I know) and roll for the Shroud trait they'll all have a 3+ cover save when going to ground too, which can be quite nice to have.
I don't possess Cawl and he's not really close on my list of next purchases, but I'll buy him once I have enough to run 2000+ pts lists. I'm not one too keen on using loads of points on single guys. Well, except the Cohort Cybernetica, but I'm un love with Kastelans
The Raiment gives Cognis to all of your weapons, so all snapshots are made at BS2, which is why I'm giving him this. Sure it's expensive but it nearly doubles my shooting capabilities after standing back up from Going to Ground. Gives me a rad Overwatch too ! And a better Skyfire than nothing, given I won't hurt much with their weapons.
Cawl in a unit of Hoplites would be terrifying I feel. All 12" Haywire weapons, all with a 5++, counts as having defensive grenades and Haywire S4 AP4 melee weapons. Would be nice to synergise with his 12" doperay, and to hide him in a bunker of 5++.
That's one of the things that I dislike about Cawl too, his shooting. I get it that he's a support HQ but he seems really expensive for something that might get instant kill (I'm really paranoid of S10 thanks to this dreadful list I faced at 1350 points with a Knight and 3 Vindicators).
EDIT: Oh he's T6 after all, now I like him better.
However I just read a bit about the Inquisitors allies. And damn, there's a lot of quite cheap options in there to ensure you have a durable Warlord when running mono-Skitarii. One of the builds that pleases me is the Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with a Power Armour and a Conversion Beamer. For 78 points you have an 3 Wounds HQ that you can just sit in a building in your deployment zone that will throw S10 AP1 Blasts between 48" and 72", so basically all of the terrain. I imagine kitbashing one to wear the weapon like a Gatling Laser from Fallout, and with Mechanicus elements all over him. Really it looks awesome ! Anyone ever tried Inquisitors in AdMech armies ?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/21 22:25:19
After today's game against Grey Knights I'm definitely taking a psyker Inquisitor in the future. ALWAYS.
The Sicarian Killclade looks fun but also a huuuge point sink, think about it, you'll be paying 680 points stock for 20 T3 guys. They don't even have Move Through Cover so if your enemy is in a building you're likely to get beaten to death first by Overwatch fire and then by the CC of your target. I don't think it's worth it, maybe yes, to try once, but personally I'd never play that much Sicarians. I think even Infiltrators are not worth their cost.
