Are Eldar / wave serpents coming back down to earth?

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**ZebioLizard2**

krodarklorr wrote:
Zippokovich wrote:
From the look for the necron codex they will nerf most of the currently op stuff (like the scarabs got) and then buff up the underused units to insane op levels - so expect banshees with 10 attacks each and the falkon with strength D apocoliptic blast :p oh and the phoenix lords will all cost 20 points each

Scarabs were OP previously?

I thought he was being sarcastic.

**krodarklorr**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
Zippokovich wrote:
From the look for the necron codex they will nerf most of the currently op stuff (like the scarabs got) and then buff up the underused units to insane op levels - so expect banshees with 10 attacks each and the falkon with strength D apocoliptic blast :p oh and the phoenix lords will all cost 20 points each

Scarabs were OP previously?

I thought he was being sarcastic.

I would have to make the same assumption.

**purplkrush**

Tannhauser42 wrote:

I expect to see a lot of that in a new Eldar codex. Individual entries being good to average, but everything as a whole being quite good when used together, with formations making even the average units good. And, or course, the basic formation will suddenly require Eldar players to buy some models they never bothered with before (like Necron Tomb Blades for the Reclamation Legion).

I think this. Everyone's so focused on the Wave Serpent they seems to gloss over the fact that Eldar don't have Formations and Detachment special rules yet. You'll might be begging for the current situation back if things go all whacked out with special rules.

Look to the Harlies dex for ideas. Move-Run/Shoot-AND-Charge, things like that. Honestly, they may just shorten the LIST of special abilities each unit currently has and make them dependent on Formations.

**krodarklorr**

purplkrush wrote:
Tannhauser42 wrote:

I expect to see a lot of that in a new Eldar codex. Individual entries being good to average, but everything as a whole being quite good when used together, with formations making even the average units good. And, or course, the basic formation will suddenly require Eldar players to buy some models they never bothered with before (like Necron Tomb Blades for the Reclamation Legion).

I think this. Everyone's so focused on the Wave Serpent they seems to gloss over the fact that Eldar don't have Formations and Detachment special rules yet. You'll might be begging for the current situation back if things go all whacked out with special rules.

Look to the Harlies dex for ideas. Move-Run/Shoot-AND-Charge, things like that. Honestly, they may just shorten the LIST of special abilities each unit currently has and make them dependent on Formations.

Yeah, thats the thing people don't see with Necrons. My friend hates the idea of free special rules, yet Necrons only get them if they abide by formations. But I could easily see Eldar losing some rules overall, but gaining them if they abide by formations. Otherwise, they'd have way too many special rules, even though they currently have too many imo.

**Vaktathi**

They'll almost certainly get a grip of absurd formations, but that doesn't mean they still can't have some standout ridiculous units the way the Wave Serpent for example is now, much like with the Necron codex and Wraiths.

**krodarklorr**

Vaktathi wrote:
They'll almost certainly get a grip of absurd formations, but that doesn't mean they still can't have some standout ridiculous units the way the Wave Serpent for example is now, much like with the Necron codex and Wraiths.

I really don't understand the hate towards Wraiths. I don't even look at them with killing potential. I just bring them if I wanna tarpit something.

**Vaktathi**

krodarklorr wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
They'll almost certainly get a grip of absurd formations, but that doesn't mean they still can't have some standout ridiculous units the way the Wave Serpent for example is now, much like with the Necron codex and Wraiths.

I really don't understand the hate towards Wraiths. I don't even look at them with killing potential. I just bring them if I wanna tarpit something.

They're incredibly fast, near impossible to stop short of D weapons or absurd amounts of S10, can successfully engage just about anything, are exceedingly good against vehicles and MSU units, and are insanely cheap for what they offer?

Either way, point was that simply having formations doesn't mean that there can't be silly things in a book that don't rely on them.

**krodarklorr**

Vaktathi wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
They'll almost certainly get a grip of absurd formations, but that doesn't mean they still can't have some standout ridiculous units the way the Wave Serpent for example is now, much like with the Necron codex and Wraiths.

I really don't understand the hate towards Wraiths. I don't even look at them with killing potential. I just bring them if I wanna tarpit something.
They're incredibly fast, near impossible to stop short of D weapons or absurd amounts of S10, can successfully engage just about anything, are exceedingly good against vehicles and MSU units, and are insanely cheap for what they offer?

Either way, point was that simply having formations doesn't mean that there can't be silly things in a book that don't rely on them.

Eh, yeah, but I'm honestly more impressed with Praetorians. Awesome models, and can more effective kill stuff. But I see your point.

**Vaktathi**

Praetorians have great models, they certainly look very impressive, and sure, against heavier infantry they'll usually hit a lot harder than Wraiths, but the Wraiths are just so much faster (they get that 12" move *and* fleet all the time, and ignore terrain entirely) and so much more resilient (with that extra wound and 3+ invul instead of just 3+ armor), and are better at engaging vehicles and light infantry while still being "ok" against heavy infantry, and having an amazing formation to boot

**Runic**

The Serpent will get nerfed no doubt.

And I will have a really good time, feasting on the tears of Eldar players who activate their Runes of Martyrdom, thinking the vaurious nerfs weren't deserved when they infact, were.

**wuestenfux**

RunicFIN wrote:
The Serpent will get nerfed no doubt.

And I will have a really good time, feasting on the tears of Eldar players who activate their Runes of Martyrdom, thinking the vaurious nerfs weren't deserved when they infact, were.

All these players are not real Eldar players.
We long time Eldar players need neither shield nor holofield.

**krodarklorr**

wuestenfux wrote:
RunicFIN wrote:
The Serpent will get nerfed no doubt.

And I will have a really good time, feasting on the tears of Eldar players who activate their Runes of Martyrdom, thinking the vaurious nerfs weren't deserved when they infact, were.

All these players are not real Eldar players.
We long time Eldar players need neither shield nor holofield.

I dunno. Honestly, without the serpent shield, Eldar don't have much that I'm afraid of. That being said, I play Necrons. So I guess I can't say anything.

**LordBlades**

krodarklorr wrote:
Zippokovich wrote:
From the look for the necron codex they will nerf most of the currently op stuff (like the scarabs got) and then buff up the underused units to insane op levels - so expect banshees with 10 attacks each and the falkon with strength D apocoliptic blast :p oh and the phoenix lords will all cost 20 points each

Scarabs were OP previously?

I think he meant Mindshackle Scarabs, not Canoptek Scarabs.

**krodarklorr**

LordBlades wrote:
krodarklorr wrote:
Zippokovich wrote:
From the look for the necron codex they will nerf most of the currently op stuff (like the scarabs got) and then buff up the underused units to insane op levels - so expect banshees with 10 attacks each and the falkon with strength D apocoliptic blast :p oh and the phoenix lords will all cost 20 points each

Scarabs were OP previously?

I think he meant Mindshackle Scarabs, not Scarab Swarms.

Oh. Derp. I typically see them as MSS, not just called scarabs.

**Filch**

Vaktathi wrote:
They'll almost certainly get a grip of absurd formations, but that doesn't mean they still can't have some standout ridiculous units the way the Wave Serpent for example is now, much like with the Necron codex and Wraiths.

I can see it now. A formation of 12 empty waves serpents complete with that 60" shield blast. You dont even need troops in it for them.

**MarsNZ**

3 months ago this type of rumor would have me excited. It seemed for a while wacky cashgrab codicies were being phased out (Ork, GK, SW saw no BUYTHISNOW riptide/wraithknight equivalent released). Sadly, during those past 3 months the Eldar were pretty solidly knocked off the douchery index by the Necrons.

**krodarklorr**

MarsNZ wrote:
3 months ago this type of rumor would have me excited. It seemed for a while wacky cashgrab codicies were being phased out (Ork, GK, SW saw no BUYTHISNOW riptide/wraithknight equivalent released). Sadly, during those past 3 months the Eldar were pretty solidly knocked off the douchery index by the Necrons.

What makes you say that? Necrons don't have ridiculous cheese that "points and clicks" to kill stuff, like the Serpent Shield.

**MarsNZ**

Decurion/Reclamation then do the tabletop equivalent of 'a-move into the base'

Don't see how it takes much more thought than "Wave Serpents? I'll take 10"

**sweetbacon**

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Before the Necron codex came out, I'd have said probably yes, there will be a general balancing.

After the Necron codex? With it's inexplicable buffs to units that never needed them, and the formation insanity we've been seeing since then, I wouldn't be surprised at anything that happens.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Before the Necron codex came out, I'd have said probably yes, there will be a general balancing.

After the Necron codex? With it's inexplicable buffs to units that never needed them, and the formation insanity we've been seeing since then, I wouldn't be surprised at anything that happens.

This. What's so strange is that the stuff people complained about the most in the old Necron book, MSS and Tesla snap shooting, DID actually get fixed. But what I don't think anyone foresaw is that GW would then turn around and make Necrons virtually unkillable ( without extreme list tailoring), via the Decurion, which dramatically increased the overall power level of the book relative to other 7th edition codexes (and a lot of the remaining 6th edition codexes). Which is a long way of saying that anybody who thinks they know what GW plans to do with new codexes going forward should think again. If, as rumored, Decurion-style detachments will be the new hotness in future codices, then it is very difficult to accurately predict what new formation buffs GW will confer to Eldar and other armies once they get their new codexes. We could get another Necrons or we could get another Dark Eldar/Blood Angels. Nobody really knows at this point.

Idk what Dark Eldar players / lists you go against, but I place 1st 2nd or 3rd in every RTT I've gone to this far with the new Dark Eldar codex.

I'm a DE player also and I actually like the new book. What I meant is that the DE and BA books are relatively similar in power level, while the Necrons, particularly in the Decurion Detachment seems much stronger right out of the gate than any of other 7th edition codices. I think DE and BA are both solid books. I just think resiliency of the new Necrons puts them above their 7th edition peers, which is disappointing as it looked like GW was actually making an effort to balance all the 7th edition books against each other.

**Xenomancers**

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
sweetbacon wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
Before the Necron codex came out, I'd have said probably yes, there will be a general balancing.

After the Necron codex? With it's inexplicable buffs to units that never needed them, and the formation insanity we've been seeing since then, I wouldn't be surprised at anything that happens.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Before the Necron codex came out, I'd have said probably yes, there will be a general balancing.

After the Necron codex? With it's inexplicable buffs to units that never needed them, and the formation insanity we've been seeing since then, I wouldn't be surprised at anything that happens.

This. What's so strange is that the stuff people complained about the most in the old Necron book, MSS and Tesla snap shooting, DID actually get fixed. But what I don't think anyone foresaw is that GW would then turn around and make Necrons virtually unkillable ( without extreme list tailoring), via the Decurion, which dramatically increased the overall power level of the book relative to other 7th edition codexes (and a lot of the remaining 6th edition codexes). Which is a long way of saying that anybody who thinks they know what GW plans to do with new codexes going forward should think again. If, as rumored, Decurion-style detachments will be the new hotness in future codices, then it is very difficult to accurately predict what new formation buffs GW will confer to Eldar and other armies once they get their new codexes. We could get another Necrons or we could get another Dark Eldar/Blood Angels. Nobody really knows at this point.

Idk what Dark Eldar players / lists you go against, but I place 1st 2nd or 3rd in every RTT I've gone to this far with the new Dark Eldar codex.

Most likely because you understand the value of ap3 templates and spam rever jetbikes - as you should.

**Zakiriel**

I don't have problems with Wave Serpents as they are now.
They die like anything else. So what if they jink then they have to snap fire. Pile the shots onto them and they become a smoking wreck.

The real solution, if you want to see less of them on someones list, is to fix the Howling Banshees and give the Craftworld Eldar an actual assault transport.
With these small changes the number of wave serpents would be dropped by half, if not more.

Far better that than making the kind of mistakes that have over powered the nigh unkillable New Necrons.

**krodarklorr**

Zakiriel wrote:
I don't have problems with Wave Serpents as they are now.
They die like anything else. So what if they jink then they have to snap fire. Pile the shots onto them and they become a smoking wreck.

The real solution, if you want to see less of them on someones list, is to fix the Howling Banshees and give the Craftworld Eldar an actual assault transport.
With these small changes the number of wave serpents would be dropped by half, if not more.

Far better that than making the kind of mistakes that have over powered the nigh unkillable New Necrons.

You know they did the same things to Necrons, right? We had a lot of small changes across every unit, thus making everything usable. The only "op" thing is the Decurion.

**Vaktathi**

Zakiriel wrote:
I don't have problems with Wave Serpents as they are now.
They die like anything else. So what if they jink then they have to snap fire. Pile the shots onto them and they become a smoking wreck.

The issue is, when Jinking they're typically getting a 3+ cover save (making them *way* more resilient than non-skimmer AV12 vehicles), while at the same time even when Jinking can just put out so many shots that it's averaging more hits even with snapshots (between sheer volume of fire and Laserlock twin-linked) that it's landing more shots than a Chimera firing at full BS normally, with greater quality weapons. This is on top of being insanely fast, and effectively immune to penetrating hits when they want to be, and having insane firepower when not jinking.

There's a reason these lists have been doing exceedingly well in tournaments for the last two years.