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 Gashrog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why in the world would you think that they would be Battle Brothers with Guard?

Because they are known to infiltrate and take over Imperial Guard units either with 4th Generation Hybrids or else subjecting regular humans to the Genestealer 'kiss'.

Pretty much this. The two ways this could be executed was to either go the mini-dex route with a list of new units for the Cult, with the duped Imperial Guards being an allied detachment, or to have a fuller codex list with the Guards included in the list; perhaps by adding a "Genestealer" prefix to the name and adjusting a few rules here and there a la Chaos Space Marine vehicles.

i actually like this new idea of smaller codexs and supplements, yeah sure, the price wont change until they do softback, but it just means they can put out more books more often if they are smaller. its like what valve was doing with the half-life 2 episodes, but in this case gw is following through with actual quick release dates.

i would love to see more stuff orks, but i would also love to see a xenos faction that is regarded battle brothers with all the xenos (but come the apocalypse for the imperium). they could take some old xeno race that used to be in previous editions, heck, it could be chaos, or even sub humans....like....squats, but back with a vengeance against the imperium for abandoning them, willing to join any xeno as long as they can settle their "grudge" against the humans.

mr. peasant wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why in the world would you think that they would be Battle Brothers with Guard?

Because they are known to infiltrate and take over Imperial Guard units either with 4th Generation Hybrids or else subjecting regular humans to the Genestealer 'kiss'.

Pretty much this. The two ways this could be executed was to either go the mini-dex route with a list of new units for the Cult, with the duped Imperial Guards being an allied detachment, or to have a fuller codex list with the Guards included in the list; perhaps by adding a "Genestealer" prefix to the name and adjusting a few rules here and there a la Chaos Space Marine vehicles.

or give them some sort of ability to randomly take over units in the other guys army.

If anything, I'd like to see the AM Codex get a 'Chapter Tactics'-esque data slate to make AM armies a little more ... fun, personable?

Elysian Drop Troopers
Valhallans
Cadians
Catachans
etc.

And, of course, Deathwatch/Alien Hunters!

 Gashrog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why in the world would you think that they would be Battle Brothers with Guard?

Because they are known to infiltrate and take over Imperial Guard units either with 4th Generation Hybrids or else subjecting regular humans to the Genestealer 'kiss'.

Actually, you're thinking of Planetary Defense Forces.
Which aren't Imperial Guard units.

If you're going to see Genestealer Cults? You're going to see them self-contained within the supplement book and Allies only with Tyranids.

 Psienesis wrote:
Codex: Administratum
Troop Taxes are what we're all about

Codex: Adeptus Arbites
Your move, creep.... if you can Seize the Initiative.

Codex: Whiteshields
"So, this one time, this totally warped-out dude charged Bethy, but she was packing the squad's autocannon. She lit that guy up with overwatch, clipped one of the grenades on his belt and ewww.... lunchmeat!"

Codex: Arbites gets my vote, citizen! Thank you for honoring the enforcers of the Lex Imperialis.

Seriously though, I would love to see Arbites because they would play so differently to anything we have now on tabletop. Emphasis on holding ground and fighting a defensive war. As well, a short range oriented T3 4+ army would need some neat tricks to stay alive; I can see rules for shield walls, suppressing fire, smoke grenades, and other tactics designed to allow the Arbites to survive long enough to reach range, which would be fun and tactical.

Or alternatively, they could make the Imperial Guard play as they have been described time and time again in the lore and leave the Arbites there until when/if we see another Necromunda styled game.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or alternatively, they could make the Imperial Guard play as they have been described time and time again in the lore and leave the Arbites there until when/if we see another Necromunda styled game.

How would you like to see the IG play to fit the more better? I admit, FootGuard could better match, but they operate as a competent combined arms modern force fighting super soldiers likely would.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Deathwatch!

Death Watch.

Black Templars Supplement. Give me back my Holy Orb of Antioch!

 kronk wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Deathwatch!

Death Watch.

Black Templars Supplement. Give me back my Holy Orb of Antioch!

Boring Space Marines.

 Gashrog wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Why in the world would you think that they would be Battle Brothers with Guard?

Because they are known to infiltrate and take over Imperial Guard units either with 4th Generation Hybrids or else subjecting regular humans to the Genestealer 'kiss'.

The old Inquisitor (Draco) novel featured a battle between two Imperial Guard units - one loyal to the cult, the other to the Imperium. A third unit turned up and wiped out one of them, only to be wiped out itself by the remaining unit because the Imperial and cultist Guard units were indistinguishable from eachother by either equipment or doctrine, leading them to have wiped out the unit on their side by mistake.

The infiltration only works while they are actually indistinguishable, though. If they ever blow their cover, the commissar will stop the presses and blow the brains out of them. In which case, you might as well play them as just IG

 UristMcJudge wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Or alternatively, they could make the Imperial Guard play as they have been described time and time again in the lore and leave the Arbites there until when/if we see another Necromunda styled game.

How would you like to see the IG play to fit the more better? I admit, FootGuard could better match, but they operate as a competent combined arms modern force fighting super soldiers likely would.

Sentry Guns and Auspex towers, Sergeants/Vox Operators being able to serve as LOS for scatter on ordnance, smoke rounds for Mortars/Grenade Launchers...

There is a ton of stuff that could be done to make the Guard much more interesting/viable. The simplest issue I have with the book is that there is really only one way to play "successfully".

And I blame Robin Cruddace for that.

Honestly I don't want to see any more sub factions with there own books outside of their parents. Its bad for the people who play them I think. Especially when GW is no longer enamored of them and no longer wishes to support them. Keep the sub factions inside a parent codex. The codexs coudl probbaly do with a little less pictures & bad fluff and more crunch. It woudl be great to have full and rich army for a broad play experience for each faction.

Not to mention that can't seem to adequately support the existing armies they have already. Why add more to the mix?

I'd really like to see any future sub-factions focused on things that 40k hasn't covered in some fashion. The extra SM supplements, Codex: MT, Iyanden Supplement, are just variations of their core book, and are something I doubt GW will have interest in keeping up-to-date. I enjoy the new Harlequin and AM factions, and so I'd hope they stay in this vein of things.

Maybe Hrud, that'd be cool!

While my official opinion being fix 40k as it is now and the codexes which exist rather than new subfactions, the reality is GW isn't likely to go back and fix their mistakes anytime soon, as much as that wounds a proud officer of the Imperial Guard such as myself. Therefore, as for a subfaction I would really like to see?

Gue'vesa. There's only real demand for one model - an auxiliary infantry kit/upgrade (could just be an upgrade sprue for Fire Warriors/Cadians or something more awesome and unique), but it would offer a distinct playstyle for Tau - less battlesuits (human battlesuit users are extremely rare in the fluff), more infantry variations, some takes on Imperial technology in the ranks, more emphasis on skimmers. I'd love to see a Hammer Russ / Chimfish or other rules which would encourage smashing together Tau and imperial kits to make something suitably unique, or just variations on Tau rules. It's something I've considered doing on my own as a counts-as force (dependent really on the core game not being gak any longer more than anything else) and would add some diversity to an army which has traditionally lacked it on the tabletop, but is present in the fluff.

Additionally, the same rules could easily be used to represent a more advanced IG regiment or advanced non-Imperial human civilization out there which are sometimes alluded to, kind of like what BOLS did back when they were awesome with the Macharian Crusade project. Just throw a blurb in there, like FW often does, "This list represents X, but could also be used to represent Y, Z and Alpha Legion (because everything is Alpharius) with the following unit replacements. (in this case, Ethereals for Commissars/Priests, for instance).

Yea, a big no to exodites and eldar knights.
a dataslate perhaps, but not a full blown codex. those should not be mainstream armies, no matter how much I love them

Vehicle & Monstrous Creature Design Rules is what I'd like to see.

The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
While my official opinion being fix 40k as it is now and the codexes which exist rather than new subfactions, the reality is GW isn't likely to go back and fix their mistakes anytime soon, as much as that wounds a proud officer of the Imperial Guard such as myself. Therefore, as for a subfaction I would really like to see?

Gue'vesa. There's only real demand for one model - an auxiliary infantry kit/upgrade (could just be an upgrade sprue for Fire Warriors/Cadians or something more awesome and unique), but it would offer a distinct playstyle for Tau - less battlesuits (human battlesuit users are extremely rare in the fluff), more infantry variations, some takes on Imperial technology in the ranks, more emphasis on skimmers. I'd love to see a Hammer Russ / Chimfish or other rules which would encourage smashing together Tau and imperial kits to make something suitably unique, or just variations on Tau rules. It's something I've considered doing on my own as a counts-as force (dependent really on the core game not being gak any longer more than anything else) and would add some diversity to an army which has traditionally lacked it on the tabletop, but is present in the fluff.

Additionally, the same rules could easily be used to represent a more advanced IG regiment or advanced non-Imperial human civilization out there which are sometimes alluded to, kind of like what BOLS did back when they were awesome with the Macharian Crusade project. Just throw a blurb in there, like FW often does, "This list represents X, but could also be used to represent Y, Z and Alpha Legion (because everything is Alpharius) with the following unit replacements. (in this case, Ethereals for Commissars/Priests, for instance).

Take Kroot rules, buy catachans, slap anyone who claims they are catachans. Problem solved.

The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).

it is kinda suprising. I suspect we'll at the very least get a codex: catachens.

BrianDavion wrote:

The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).

it is kinda suprising. I suspect we'll at the very least get a codex: catachens.

Codex: Australians would be nice, but the rest really need rules.

eh... personally, I think publishing all these sub-faction dexes are a good idea, as long as they don't make a Gajilioin of them.

I mean I get why they are doing this: it's likely easier to sell books. The primary way to get more people to pay is to make things more people would afford both the money and time for. For GW (not BL) they've got only one venue, that is the codexes. It's good for the current system too, since with unlimited number detachments in an army, using different dexes brings more options for army building. Not to mention having more codexes allows for more fluff to be included for that faction (But from what I've heard, Khorne Daemonkin does not have anything interesting or important, so...)

But seriously? Having a Codex: Cadians? A Codex: Valhallans? A Codex: Iron Guaurd or Codex: Steel Legion? Don't get me wrong, I'm big into fluff, so it's always nice to have those options, but what could be so different between these IG/AM regiments that warrants a range of full codexes? Their units would be pretty much the same apart from the looks, and it would come down to just a set of special rules, not unlike the SM chapter tactics we have now.

I suppose for Catachan they can bring back the old named ICs but every other regiment would either have to have their special characters range expanded, or be filled with multiple variants of the same guards unit that can be done with an upgrade (i.e. veteran Infantry squad, anti-armour infantry squad, pathfinder infantry squad, etc.) If anything, they should have done a special trait matrix/table for the new AM regiment for custom regiments. Having separate codexes doesn't improve these issues.

Besides, it is difficult to maintain and update a Gajilion codexes. I mean even if they were to get rid of WHFB, they are still putting out more codexes out then those they are taking away. Sorry, I don't see the Guard dexes happening. Although Codex: Tau Auxiliary is certainly a better ideathan Codex: Kroot(Kroots?).

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorStoffer wrote:
While my official opinion being fix 40k as it is now and the codexes which exist rather than new subfactions, the reality is GW isn't likely to go back and fix their mistakes anytime soon, as much as that wounds a proud officer of the Imperial Guard such as myself. Therefore, as for a subfaction I would really like to see?

Gue'vesa. There's only real demand for one model - an auxiliary infantry kit/upgrade (could just be an upgrade sprue for Fire Warriors/Cadians or something more awesome and unique), but it would offer a distinct playstyle for Tau - less battlesuits (human battlesuit users are extremely rare in the fluff), more infantry variations, some takes on Imperial technology in the ranks, more emphasis on skimmers. I'd love to see a Hammer Russ / Chimfish or other rules which would encourage smashing together Tau and imperial kits to make something suitably unique, or just variations on Tau rules. It's something I've considered doing on my own as a counts-as force (dependent really on the core game not being gak any longer more than anything else) and would add some diversity to an army which has traditionally lacked it on the tabletop, but is present in the fluff.

Additionally, the same rules could easily be used to represent a more advanced IG regiment or advanced non-Imperial human civilization out there which are sometimes alluded to, kind of like what BOLS did back when they were awesome with the Macharian Crusade project. Just throw a blurb in there, like FW often does, "This list represents X, but could also be used to represent Y, Z and Alpha Legion (because everything is Alpharius) with the following unit replacements. (in this case, Ethereals for Commissars/Priests, for instance).

Take Kroot rules, buy catachans, slap anyone who claims they are catachans. Problem solved.

Doesn't the current Tau codex have rules for a Gue'vesa unit? One of them did. Just take a Tau detachment with some of those and a couple other toys, and an IG detachment with some vehicles. Between the two lists, you've got everything you need. You could even use some of the new Mechanicus stuff if IG ain't high tech enough for you. It's a cool concept, but I don't really think it needs a whole new book.

BrianDavion wrote:

The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).

it is kinda suprising. I suspect we'll at the very least get a codex: catachens.

Honestly, I don't think GW believes Guard is worth any release attention. Given their releases, both in terms of models and printed materiel, Guard are the least supported faction. Even DA beat them, getting their nemesis, Cypher, re-introduced into the game with some rules for Fallen, having the most access to discounted models via Dark Vengeance and the "Dark Vengeance Expansion" and have three formations, beating the Guard's two.

I think guard supplements/spin-offs are extremely unlikely; GW clearly isn't interesting in them at present. I suspect that given their focus on cutting costs above all else, Forgeworld's Guard offerings disincentivize GW prime from investing in the faction. When the company is struggling to maintain current fiscal numbers, they're going to avoid redundancies if they don't believe they'll be highly profitable. They assume anyone who wants more than their abortion of a codex will turn to FW (whose rules, in most cases haven't been updated what with the Heresy taking all their time), whereas new content for Chaos, Marines, Xenos and so on is a much more untapped market.

 MajorStoffer wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).

it is kinda suprising. I suspect we'll at the very least get a codex: catachens.

Honestly, I don't think GW believes Guard is worth any release attention. Given their releases, both in terms of models and printed materiel, Guard are the least supported faction. Even DA beat them, getting their nemesis, Cypher, re-introduced into the game with some rules for Fallen, having the most access to discounted models via Dark Vengeance and the "Dark Vengeance Expansion" and have three formations, beating the Guard's two.

I think guard supplements/spin-offs are extremely unlikely; GW clearly isn't interesting in them at present. I suspect that given their focus on cutting costs above all else, Forgeworld's Guard offerings disincentivize GW prime from investing in the faction. When the company is struggling to maintain current fiscal numbers, they're going to avoid redundancies if they don't believe they'll be highly profitable. They assume anyone who wants more than their abortion of a codex will turn to FW (whose rules, in most cases haven't been updated what with the Heresy taking all their time), whereas new content for Chaos, Marines, Xenos and so on is a much more untapped market.

IF GW's focus was on cutting costs beyond all else they'd not be releasing things like Skitarii and Harliquinns. these are entirely new lines of plastic kits, suggesting GW is, wisely or unwisely, in an expansion mindset. yes they're going to cut costs where it's smart, but your general assumptions of their driving mindset isn't born out by the evidance.

BrianDavion wrote:

 MajorStoffer wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

The real question is, why are the Guard different regiments not focused, where is our codex blitzkreig, codex Australians, codex mongols, codex Scottish ninjas, codex Bedouins, codex Prussians or codex Red Army? (real question here is actually what am I referencing).

it is kinda suprising. I suspect we'll at the very least get a codex: catachens.

Honestly, I don't think GW believes Guard is worth any release attention. Given their releases, both in terms of models and printed materiel, Guard are the least supported faction. Even DA beat them, getting their nemesis, Cypher, re-introduced into the game with some rules for Fallen, having the most access to discounted models via Dark Vengeance and the "Dark Vengeance Expansion" and have three formations, beating the Guard's two.

I think guard supplements/spin-offs are extremely unlikely; GW clearly isn't interesting in them at present. I suspect that given their focus on cutting costs above all else, Forgeworld's Guard offerings disincentivize GW prime from investing in the faction. When the company is struggling to maintain current fiscal numbers, they're going to avoid redundancies if they don't believe they'll be highly profitable. They assume anyone who wants more than their abortion of a codex will turn to FW (whose rules, in most cases haven't been updated what with the Heresy taking all their time), whereas new content for Chaos, Marines, Xenos and so on is a much more untapped market.

IF GW's focus was on cutting costs beyond all else they'd not be releasing things like Skitarii and Harliquinns. these are entirely new lines of plastic kits, suggesting GW is, wisely or unwisely, in an expansion mindset. yes they're going to cut costs where it's smart, but your general assumptions of their driving mindset isn't born out by the evidance.

But at the same time, these are untapped product lines, well established in the fluff. They're one of the few elements of the 40k IP which have not been realized in model form.

And that right there, profitablity aside, fits into GW's mindset - copyright everything. Remember, the Chapterhouse ruling put in place that the copyright goes to whomever produces the model first, and AdMech in particular are a big part of the setting which has been completely unrealized by GW, and something, in theory, someone else could develop and weaken their IP.

It offered genuine new product established in the lore and would iron-plate the one big whole in their IP lineup. It's also one of the few times a good business decision and GW's own business plan are one in the same.

Guard doesn't offer that - aftermarket producers have largely filled in the model range of the old regiments (Victoria Lamb and Mad Robot in particular), FW's business has traditionally been very dependent on Imperial Guard kits and rules. To GW, any expansion or investment in guard risks cannibalizing FW sales or forcing legal showdowns they would probably like to avoid after the Chapterhouse and Spots the Space Marine disasters.

This isn't really anything new, the IG still has one of the oldest model ranges (with metal units for cthulhu's sake!), an awful ruleset and no post-release love whatsoever for a faction which is tailor made of expansion and selling 10,000 variant rules to eager consumers. Hell, they still make the 3rd edition metal variants guard to market them with, but it's clearly not on their agenda.

I can think of three that i'd like to see and would be pretty easy to do too seeing as they have had army lists in White Dwarf before:
Orks- Snakebites
Kroot
Cursed founding chapters of Space marines, maybe the Black Dragons or Fire Hawks.

Put another mark next to Chaos Legions for me. Specifically the Thousand Sons.

While Slaanesh and Tzeentch often get the short end of the stick when it comes to rules, Thousand Sons in particular feel very marginalized because playing a ‘fluffy’ Thousand Sons list just doesn’t work. Whereas with Deathguard or Wordbearers you can simply put a mark on some terminators or bikers and they’ll fit in rules wise, there’s not much you can do with the Thousand Sons.

GW really needs to introduce another Tzeentch styled unit or 2 for CSM so a ‘fluffy’ Thousand Sons list could work. Not to mention real spells that actually worked and a more reliable magic phase.

But how cool would it be to see a Heavy Support ‘Pyrae’ unit that had like 3 marines and 5 thralls and the unit could shoot some spells or channel together, sacrifice one of the thralls and shoot some large pie plate at the enemy?

Or Rubrics with heavy weapons so they had a reason to use S&P?

Or Cultists with the MoT were actually turned into Thralls and you could sacrifice them to do things like reroll spell dice or choose again on the magic table?

There are tons of ways they could make Tzeentch and Thousand Sons in particular work, but right now they have horrible rules and nothing but terrible Rubric Marines.

Where are the light infantry, the jungle fighting catacans, the long range desert battle group (Kinda like tallarn I guess), the penal batallions, the white shields, the PDF, mercenary groups, fighter squadrons, or auxilla battalions?

From the stealthy, to the lightning quick, to the lumbering and loud, the guard has it all, but game wise the guard are essentially relegated to one playstyle.


The way the IG are currently portrayed are indicative of how they perform. Send in one trillion guys, and everyone but one guy dies and call it a victory. Either way the difference between "victory" and defeat for the guard is that they lost one less guy and held or took the objective. Ironically knowing the imperium, they will lose the objective sooner or later anyway at which time the space marines show up and take the objective having lost 1 guy. The guard aren't supposed to be cool or differentiated, otherwise who would make the space marines look godlike by comparison.
They don't want to make different guard regiments look or play differently because then the space marines are no longer as distinctive. So the guard are stuck only using "meat grinder" tactics while the space marines are able change the rate or flow of the blood that spills from it.

This is shown in the current rules and expresses why special characters, rules and doctrines have been removed from editions past.

I would love to see "IG Codex: Anyone who isn't Cadians."

squidhills wrote:
I would love to see "IG Codex: Anyone who isn't Cadians."

I'll see that and raise you one "IG Codex: Anything that isn't Knight Commander Pask, 2 naked mechvet squads and as many russes as one can fit in a list."

I'd take codex: Cadians at this point if it amounted to more than just "Spam russes, hope for the best."

I would love to see a Kroot supplement or minidex with a few new units. I would love to have a Tau/Kroot army. A great pity Forgeworld stopped making those awesome Kroot units.