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CSM can hold their own, but CSM, Daemons and renegades & heretics or so intertwined lorewise and battle brothers in game that you can almost consider them 3 aspects of the same army.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:

shyzo wrote:


And... What's so bad about decurion? Just asking.

To quote my Necron-playing friend after he played his first game with the Decurion and steamrolled 6th edition eldar...."They really aren't THAT powerful, they just completely gimp your opponent's offense."

Yeah, he doesn't quite get that having an army that does that is a tad OP and unfun to play against. Too bad for him, his opponent was rather dismayed, and is chomping at the bit to get some payback, Craftword-style. I foresee 3 units of d-scythe WG in WS in his future (no RP for him!)

My opinion on the new Eldar codex changed after I destroyed my 6th ed. Eldar friend, even with Wave serpents and a Wraithknight.

But on topic, Necrons can counter most things in the game easily, and have very few weaknesses, but also very few overall strengths (Can kill vehicles easily, are tough, and that's about it.) They're just a bunch of really tough dudes.

cm32 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
My dreadclaw and juggerlord would disagree with that.

I hope you're not running around telling people you can put a juggerlord into a dreadclaw. Also, if not, have fun with your two massive units that will get shot to gak before they do anything. Juggerlords were good for a few months, now they are terrible.

No lol. But the dreadclaw is pretty good at deep striking and if you take it as a dedicated transport it becomes an objective secured flyer that can hover. It's great unit that has pretty much won me some games all on it's own (maelstrom). And it looks awesome to boot.

Juggerlord are still good as far as I'm concerned and rarely fail to make their points back and then some. But both were only the first things that came to mind. Daemon princes are also good at assaulting, as are khorne berzerkers. Blood Slaughters are brutal as hell. Contemptors/decimators/ferrum dreadnoughts...take your pick. If you manage to get Warp talons into assault they are very effective.

If you somehow manage to get off the dimensional key, csm suddenly become the best codex ever at deepstriking. Otherwise they don't lack unit variety to deepstrike: Terminators, pretty much every HQ, raptors, helbrutes, contemptors and ferrums via droppod, blood slautherers, oblits....etc though I'll admit that they have trouble deepstriking accurately unless you mix with daemons.

Roknar wrote:

cm32 wrote:

Roknar wrote:
My dreadclaw and juggerlord would disagree with that.

I hope you're not running around telling people you can put a juggerlord into a dreadclaw. Also, if not, have fun with your two massive units that will get shot to gak before they do anything. Juggerlords were good for a few months, now they are terrible.

No lol. But the dreadclaw is pretty good at deep striking and if you take it as a dedicated transport it becomes an objective secured flyer that can hover. It's great unit that has pretty much won me some games all on it's own (maelstrom). And it looks awesome to boot.

Juggerlord are still good as far as I'm concerned and rarely fail to make their points back and then some. But both were only the first things that came to mind. Daemon princes are also good at assaulting, as are khorne berzerkers. Blood Slaughters are brutal as hell. Contemptors/decimators/ferrum dreadnoughts...take your pick. If you manage to get Warp talons into assault they are very effective.

If you somehow manage to get off the dimensional key, csm suddenly become the best codex ever at deepstriking. Otherwise they don't lack unit variety to deepstrike: Terminators, pretty much every HQ, raptors, helbrutes, contemptors and ferrums via droppod, blood slautherers, oblits....etc though I'll admit that they have trouble deepstriking accurately unless you mix with daemons.

The problem that I have with all of this, and I understand where you are coming from, is that it is so very tentative. There is such great risk invovled with virtually all of this strategy, in one way or another. When other armies only have the ever present risks, but nothing more.

I'm not saying CSM don't have issues, but unless your 7 Eldar, that's true for all armies. I was merely trying to refute your comment about them "sucking" at assault and deepstriking.
The Chaos boon table especially is something you will either love or hate....sometimes both lol.

Either way though, they match the OP's criteria. Whether or not he/she likes the intricacies of the army is up to the OP to decide . I mean, some people love the heck out of the randomness that Daemons provide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like I said in my post listing his criteria, I play only friendly games. In which case they are still very viable. Outside of that? Well I can't really say, but I would consider any amount of randomness to be bad in terms of competitiveness.

And many chaos units carry some amount of risk, such as the aforementioned juggerlord.

Who has killed flyrant's only to lose against a Tau suit commander because I rolled 1's on the daemon weapon. But there aren't many models that can pull off 10+ attacks on the charge, which can ruin anybody's day.
For me the benefits outweigh the negatives, but you can't just flat out say that chaos sucks at assaults. That's for shyzo to decide^^

Tyranids: They do everything at least average, somethings good, very few things too good though.