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Hey guys,
Recently changed from Orks to Eldar and was pretty satisfied with them... until new codex was released. I already see my opponent's faces when they hear that I play Eldar... So, I came up with an idea that I want a well-balanced army in all aspects, like power/fun, shooty/choppy, fast/resilient, anti-tank/anti-infantry and so on. Not too overpowered, not too underpowered. ANYONE EXCEPT SPEHS MEHREENS (GK count as SM). Sorry for bad English, hope you get the idea.

For me only two things come to mind: Chaos and, possibly, Necrons (still not sure about them). Whatdya people think? I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

Necrons. Chaos has excellent melee capabilities but can't compete with dedicated shooty allies like Tau or IG. Necrons have good shooting while also having strong melee capabilities in the Lychguard and Canoptek Wraiths.

Sadly... Necrons tend to not be a very popular army either, due to their power.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Sadly... Necrons tend to not be a very popular army either, due to their power.

Uhm... What do you mean? Are they too strong or too weak?

Dark eldar with coven mixed in is pretty good, has decent melee with grotesque squads, MC's and beasts, can take out tanks with dark lances and haywire, can take on infantry with poison shots... The main downside of DE is usually durability, but the coven units are actually tough as nails with all those wounds, feel no pain, and it will not die from their pfp chart.

AM mixed with some melee allies, like say some of the skitarii's cyborg ninja, or inquisition with some crusaders and death cult assassins, or some marines if you can get over using just a few. (It is kind of a shame you're dead set on no marines, because they are probably the best faction in the game to do what you want- make a middling power army with all around balance.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shyzo wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Sadly... Necrons tend to not be a very popular army either, due to their power.

Uhm... What do you mean? Are they too strong or too weak?

Before the new eldar book, they were fighting neck and neck with 6e eldar for king-of-tournaments title. Eldar are generally champ more, but crons are almost always right behind them.

chaos can be well balanced

Though I wouldn't allow internet fearmongering to prevent you playing the army you want to, the codex isn't out yet and we haven't seen all the details of it, so for people to be judging you on it already seems a bit extreme

shyzo wrote:
Hey guys,
Recently changed from Orks to Eldar and was pretty satisfied with them... until new codex was released. I already see my opponent's faces when they hear that I play Eldar... So, I came up with an idea that I want a well-balanced army in all aspects, like power/fun, shooty/choppy, fast/resilient, anti-tank/anti-infantry and so on. Not too overpowered, not too underpowered. ANYONE EXCEPT SPEHS MEHREENS (GK count as SM). Sorry for bad English, hope you get the idea.

For me only two things come to mind: Chaos and, possibly, Necrons (still not sure about them). Whatdya people think? I'm eager to hear your thoughts.

Play Eldar and screw what anyone else thinks. Just because you play with them doesn't mean your bringing a power list or anything like that and other peoples opinions shouldn't dictate how you choose or want to play the game. People are overreacting and its easier to be negative then constructive online, play the army you want to play with and the models you want to play with. Only thing id recommend is build your army where you can run it both competitively and fun/fluffy based on your opponent.

Play Eldar and screw what anyone else thinks. Just because you play with them doesn't mean your bringing a power list or anything like that and other peoples opinions shouldn't dictate how you choose or want to play the game. People are overreacting and its easier to be negative then constructive online, play the army you want to play with and the models you want to play with. Only thing id recommend is build your army where you can run it both competitively and fun/fluffy based on your opponent.

shyzo wrote:
One does not simply play army which can give D weapons to INFANTRY and hope not to be a powergamer. Cause, you know, it's no fun when your units outmatch everything else in the game. No fun.

...So the fact that the option is in your Codex means that you have to take it?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

shyzo wrote:
One does not simply play army which can give D weapons to INFANTRY and hope not to be a powergamer. Cause, you know, it's no fun when your units outmatch everything else in the game. No fun.

...So the fact that the option is in your Codex means that you have to take it?

I mean, now a lot of people will refuse to play, saying "Eldar are overpowered, I don't want to play with you" and so on. I will be forced to handicap myself and convince everyone that I don't bring broken army... And that's just half the units. Now I'm looking for a balanced army, which can win or lose dependent on your skills (or their lack), not because of brokenness of rules/units/weapons/whatever. Like, army with fair shooting, fair assault, fair manueverability and fair toughness. An army which is not too cheesy or too rubbish...

I'm thinking I might move to an all BS5 army.

The Dire Avenger Shrine, makes them bs5.
Then 2 lots of the aspect Shrine.
Make 3 lots of Warp Spiders bs5
Make 3 lots of Hawks Bs5.

Seems like a lot of fun to me.

Striking Scorpions are quite okay. WS5 eldar ninjas are awesome and their extra rules aren't over the top

shyzo wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Sadly... Necrons tend to not be a very popular army either, due to their power.

Uhm... What do you mean? Are they too strong or too weak?

Their Decurion Detachment is not fun to play against in the least (too strong). A standard CAD might not be horrible, though.

I structurized my requirements. I need an army that is:

1. Not dedicated shooty or choppy (Tau/Orks).
2. Not paper-thin (DE).
3. Not SUPER OP CHEESE (New Elfdar).
4. Not incapacitated (Dark Angels).
5. Hopefully will not be heavily disbalanced in relation to other races.
6. Can win games without having to use power/broken stuff.
7. Can deal with enemy's broken stuff/deathstars.
8. NOT SPES MEHREENS.

As I see, Necrons fit in all categories. Am I right?

P. S. Odds are that no one except SM is going to fit... Please tell me if I was wrong with number 8.

The moment you shut the door on wherever you store your models, the Eldar will decimate your fledgeling Necron collection. Prepare for much unexplained melted plastic and tears!

(Seems like sticking with the CAD makes Necrons and Eldar both more fun to play against...)

shyzo wrote:
I structurized my requirements. I need an army that is:

1. Not dedicated shooty or choppy (Tau/Orks).
2. Not paper-thin (DE).
3. Not SUPER OP CHEESE (New Elfdar).
4. Not incapacitated (Dark Angels).
5. Hopefully will not be heavily disbalanced in relation to other races.
6. Can win games without having to use power/broken stuff.
7. Can deal with enemy's broken stuff/deathstars.
8. NOT SPES MEHREENS.

As I see, Necrons fit in all categories. Am I right?

P. S. Odds are that no one except SM is going to fit... Please tell me if I was wrong with number 8.

Why no Space Marines again?

Depending on who you ask, Necron could be quite over powered, so if you're looking for an army that people will not immediately grown at then Necron isn't it more likely than not.

From what I've read, you're limited to Eldar, Necrons or Space Marines. Only armies capable of doing it all without allies.

There is no cheese. Only bad players or poorly designed games. Limiting yourself in a game because you think something is too powerful will only lead to frustration. More so when GW can make units either super strong or super weak with every release. Buy an army, maximizing it's strengths and go to town.

Necrons are a good choice. If you try to power them up, you can easily.
Running a decurion is very powerfull for 2 reasons,
1. it makes you very durable.
2. It's requirements mean, you accidentally build a very strong list.

If you stay with CAD you wont be over powered, but it'll be an even fight.

There's no army that's good at everything. Every army has some sort of weakness that you have to play around. Even eldar. They have a weakness of not having weaknesses. That's so annoying - noone likes to play against them.

 koooaei wrote:
There's no army that's good at everything. Every army has some sort of weakness that you have to play around. Even eldar. They have a weakness of not having weaknesses. That's so annoying - noone likes to play against them.

That's what I'm talking about! Being powerful wihtout being overpowered. That's what I want to see Like, an army that's fun to play for both me and my opponent.

.

stopcallingmechief wrote:

shyzo wrote:
I structurized my requirements. I need an army that is:

1. Not dedicated shooty or choppy (Tau/Orks).
2. Not paper-thin (DE).
3. Not SUPER OP CHEESE (New Elfdar).
4. Not incapacitated (Dark Angels).
5. Hopefully will not be heavily disbalanced in relation to other races.
6. Can win games without having to use power/broken stuff.
7. Can deal with enemy's broken stuff/deathstars.
8. NOT SPES MEHREENS.

As I see, Necrons fit in all categories. Am I right?

P. S. Odds are that no one except SM is going to fit... Please tell me if I was wrong with number 8.

id rather play against new eldar than decurion once again (several crons in my meta) . Do what you want but remember not a single game has been played with new eldar despite the VERY vocal minority on here who have declared the sky is falling and the earth will end soon. If you already started eldar, than play them, just dont be bringing 100 bikes or really more than one unit of wraithguard.

And... What's so bad about decurion? Just asking.

shyzo wrote:
an army that's fun to play for both me and my opponent.

orks

 koooaei wrote:

shyzo wrote:
an army that's fun to play for both me and my opponent.

orks

Orks are no fun for me. I get train-raped every game. Besides, they fall into category 1 (not dedicated chopy army), and their dex is pretty bad.

shyzo wrote:


And... What's so bad about decurion? Just asking.

To quote my Necron-playing friend after he played his first game with the Decurion and steamrolled 6th edition eldar...."They really aren't THAT powerful, they just completely gimp your opponent's offense."

Yeah, he doesn't quite get that having an army that does that is a tad OP and unfun to play against. Too bad for him, his opponent was rather dismayed, and is chomping at the bit to get some payback, Craftword-style. I foresee 3 units of d-scythe WG in WS in his future (no RP for him!)

shyzo wrote:
I structurized my requirements. I need an army that is:

1. Not dedicated shooty or choppy (Tau/Orks).
2. Not paper-thin (DE).
3. Not SUPER OP CHEESE (New Elfdar).
4. Not incapacitated (Dark Angels).
5. Hopefully will not be heavily disbalanced in relation to other races.
6. Can win games without having to use power/broken stuff.
7. Can deal with enemy's broken stuff/deathstars.
8. NOT SPES MEHREENS.

As I see, Necrons fit in all categories. Am I right?

P. S. Odds are that no one except SM is going to fit... Please tell me if I was wrong with number 8.

I guess this depends on your stance toward forgeworld (and possibly allies), but:

1. Chaos are mostly melee but they sure have some significant firepower if you want it. Anti tank as well as anti infantry. They are slightly lacking in anti air though.
Your anti air is either other flyers or other chaos allies. The renegades for example also have a hydra. Or fortifications of course.

2. 3+ across the board. Some 2+ and you can have quite a bit of 4++ or 3++ on characters. T4 across the board with easy access to T5. Even T6+ and it will not die/feel no pain.

3 . They can cheese, but you really have to go looking for it. They certainly don't come with extra cheese on top.

4. Eeeeh.... you might have to get used to an army who is pretty badly represented in terms of fluff and will pretty much always be worse than the loyalist equivalent. (less so with FW but still)
That doesn't make them bad though. They can definitely win, but this will be the story of your life: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Dude,_Where%27s_my_Land_Speeder%3F

5. Thanks to support from FW, only at most half your stuff will be. If you like Crimson Slaughter though you're probably safe since they are the current CSM poster boys.

6. I suppose this depends on your gaming environment. I only play friendly games in my group with maelstrom and I have no trouble.

7. They most certainly can if you ally with other chaos factions. On their own? Thanks to FW, probably yea. But then again, I don't really have to deal with that in my group. At least nothing a pack of Blood Slaughterers couldn't deal with. Or a Hammer prince with some luck.

8. DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!

Plus FW has your back as far as epic models are concerned., especially if you play crimson slaughter now that Word Bearers got some legion specific units. I'm almost tempted to field possessed just for the Gal Vorbak models.
The only caveat maybe, is that if you decide to go chaos, you owe it to yourself to also get IA 13.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I suppose I should mention that they have anti air havocs but I've never seen anybody actually field them.

shyzo wrote:
I structurized my requirements. I need an army that is:

1. Not dedicated shooty or choppy (Tau/Orks).
2. Not paper-thin (DE).
3. Not SUPER OP CHEESE (New Elfdar).
4. Not incapacitated (Dark Angels).
5. Hopefully will not be heavily disbalanced in relation to other races.
6. Can win games without having to use power/broken stuff.
7. Can deal with enemy's broken stuff/deathstars.
8. NOT SPES MEHREENS.

As I see, Necrons fit in all categories. Am I right?

P. S. Odds are that no one except SM is going to fit... Please tell me if I was wrong with number 8.

Tyranids. Because:
1. Both shooty-and- choppy.
2. Sturdy; either through high T or great cover saves from Thropes.
3. Never OP and people don't complain about fighting them.
4. Capable in most regards.
5. Mid-tier army, but flexible.
6. We don't have broken or 'power' stuff.
7. Can do, with some difficulty though.
8. Yes.

Course, not everyone likes the bugs. They're pretty awesome though!

For the love of god don't pick CSM. They are supposed to be assault, but they suck at that and at deep striking. Pick something else.

My dreadclaw and juggerlord would disagree with that.

I think Necrons would be great for you if you like their models and fluff.
Or you could play Chaos and have a combined CSM+Daemons army.

Roknar wrote:
My dreadclaw and juggerlord would disagree with that.

I hope you're not running around telling people you can put a juggerlord into a dreadclaw. Also, if not, have fun with your two massive units that will get shot to gak before they do anything. Juggerlords were good for a few months, now they are terrible.