Why I hate Grav-guns, love Centurions and am not insane

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**ZebioLizard2**

. They just don't have any place in the Space Marine arsenal. This is a fighting force that is designed for hard hitting application of surgical force. Why would you have big, slow, easy target Marines who are difficult to transport into battle? In the game, they've been artificially buffed so that they will be desirable for people to buy. In practical terms, they would be inferior to a Devastator squad or a Terminator squad in every way. A Terminator Devastor Squad would have made way more sense from a tactical perspective than a Centurion Squad ever would have.

Just to point out, that SM don't just do on field battles and such, they do surgical strikes in very tight indoor area's as well where stronger application and better maneuvering doesn't matter, but the ability to carry out heavy weapons on hand would still be very useful, making them better in area's like Terminators.

**Platuan4th**

FavilleGamingAndTCG wrote:
They could've stolen some other idea that wasn't invented for GMod!

I... what?

Grav weapons have existed in 40K since the 1980's.

**Icculus**

Who wants to work-up a counts as centurion squad using Terminators wielding heavy weapons? A neat conversion for a Terminator Devastator Squad.

**Talizvar**

Icculus wrote:
Who wants to work-up a counts as centurion squad using Terminators wielding heavy weapons? A neat conversion for a Terminator Devastator Squad.

Problem is you (I) would want to try to model for the loss of 5+Inv... because reasons...
Oddly your proposal makes me want to mod the Centurions to be actual Terminators and Terminators to be the Centurions... if I am making sense.

**Nevelon**

If you think of assault centurions as tactical terminators, they make a lot more sense. Powerfists are replaced with drill things, stormbolters with more useful meltas and flamers.

**Veteran Sergeant**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
. They just don't have any place in the Space Marine arsenal. This is a fighting force that is designed for hard hitting application of surgical force. Why would you have big, slow, easy target Marines who are difficult to transport into battle? In the game, they've been artificially buffed so that they will be desirable for people to buy. In practical terms, they would be inferior to a Devastator squad or a Terminator squad in every way. A Terminator Devastor Squad would have made way more sense from a tactical perspective than a Centurion Squad ever would have.

Just to point out, that SM don't just do on field battles and such, they do surgical strikes in very tight indoor area's as well where stronger application and better maneuvering doesn't matter, but the ability to carry out heavy weapons on hand would still be very useful, making them better in area's like Terminators.

Know how I know you know nothing about fighting in very tight indoor areas?

**Talys**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:

But you hit the nail on the head. You already had Terminators. You didn't have Centurions yet.

But by that logic, why buff Jetbikes and Wraithguard, and Wraithknights? Every single Eldar player I know of has jetbikes, and modifying the weapons is no big deal (or just calling them all scatter lasers/shuriken cannons). Almost every Eldar player has at least 1 Wraithknight, and most Eldar players have enough Wraithguard that they won't need or want more.

With Centurions, it's a lousy cash grab at best. You almost never see more than 6 (2 boxes), and often just 3.

Also, they produced a beautiful set of Assault Terminators just last Christmas (arguably, the best timed box set for holiday gift), and the rules for them still suck. I don't know anyone that has bought more than 1 box of those.

I have a different theory: Whenever GW produces a codex, or a new model, they flip a coin for each build. Heads, the unit is decent, tails, the unit sucks ass. If they don't catch the coin and it rolls away, the unit will be super duper powerful.

**ZebioLizard2**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
ZebioLizard2 wrote:
. They just don't have any place in the Space Marine arsenal. This is a fighting force that is designed for hard hitting application of surgical force. Why would you have big, slow, easy target Marines who are difficult to transport into battle? In the game, they've been artificially buffed so that they will be desirable for people to buy. In practical terms, they would be inferior to a Devastator squad or a Terminator squad in every way. A Terminator Devastor Squad would have made way more sense from a tactical perspective than a Centurion Squad ever would have.

Just to point out, that SM don't just do on field battles and such, they do surgical strikes in very tight indoor area's as well where stronger application and better maneuvering doesn't matter, but the ability to carry out heavy weapons on hand would still be very useful, making them better in area's like Terminators.

Know how I know you know nothing about fighting in very tight indoor areas?

Likely, I'm just going off the whole reasoning they had Terminator Armor to begin with. Though I might be wrong on that one because I think it was originally since they were just suits that could resist radiation better.

The same reasoning why they were used in Hulks rather then actual open field battle.

Maybe they'll shore up the Centurions use overtime in the fluff, even if it's the worst of the lot (Even Mutilators have a better reasoning)

**Jayden63**

I cant stand the centurion models, which is too bad because I rather like their rules. However, as I only have Space Wolves when it comes to marines there is no fear of having to find a count as model. However, if I had too I would upgrade some terminators in some way.

**Veteran Sergeant**

Talys wrote:
Veteran Sergeant wrote:

But you hit the nail on the head. You already had Terminators. You didn't have Centurions yet.

But by that logic, why buff Jetbikes and Wraithguard, and Wraithknights?

Not sure you understand my logic. Though considering Wraithknights are only a couple years old, they're the new shiny too. And, well, the old jetbikes were ugly, and they have new shiny Jetbikes!

However, Space Marines are the biggest individual army, by a large factor too. Even if every player bought only one box, that's a huge amount of revenue. Adding an overpowered new unit that is inexplicably the only unit able to use the new Grav Cannons was so blatantly about making money, if you didn't already see that, I'm not sure I can explain it to you. The more likely explanation than a coin flip is that sometimes the bean counters show up and demand the design team come up with something that will sell a lot more beans.

**FavilleGamingAndTCG**

First of all, I apologize for my misinformed comment about grav-weapons and GMod. I should've hit the books harder.

Second, I was not expecting this kind of response. Like I said, I personally love the Centurion aesthetic. On the price comment, I hear people saying its expensive to buy the kit in the first place. I'd just like to say, yet you buy Land Raiders. Sure, LRs are good, but if the game is all for fun, you should be willing to try new things. However, I can see why some hate them.

**Purifier**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
rhinosaur wrote:
Nevelon wrote:
remember the first time I saw centurions in the 6th ed codex and I was like..."whats the point of these when we have terminators" then looking further at them I started saying "That's what terminators should have been all along!"
Icculus wrote:Theres an idea! instead of making new Centurion models, they should have just upgraded terminators.
Agreed 100%. GW is a miniatures selling company first. Everyone already has terminators so fixing them to be useful wouldn't sell any new stuff.
Yeah, it's almost as if the Space Marines already had a heavier armor suit capable of maneuvering heavy weapons, that was a better battlefield alternative to a Centurion suit in pretty much every way (in terms of maneuverability and size).

That's the real problem with the Centurions (aside from them being horrible models that don't look like they'd be able to walk properly, nor turn at the waist properly and thus be large and clumsy and slow which are all things you don't want to be if you're a Space Marine). They just don't have any place in the Space Marine arsenal. This is a fighting force that is designed for hard hitting application of surgical force. Why would you have big, slow, easy target Marines who are difficult to transport into battle? In the game, they've been artificially buffed so that they will be desirable for people to buy. In practical terms, they would be inferior to a Devastator squad or a Terminator squad in every way. A Terminator Devastor Squad would have made way more sense from a tactical perspective than a Centurion Squad ever would have.

But you hit the nail on the head. You already had Terminators. You didn't have Centurions yet.

Fluff-wise it's not so weird.
Terminator suits are rare, and you can't just make more at any kind of speed. Machine spirit might eat the guy inside.
Maybe they managed to make a frame that the power armour could control without having to deal with the Machine Spirit too much. So this is a way to alleviate the lack of Terminator armours.

**Martel732**

There's no such thing as a machine spirit. The Imperium is just full of superstitious fools and morons.